Thread by @ncdave4life

@swcrisis @EthonRaptor @JsharkJill @nocowingbovril @Tokyo_Tom @ClimatePatriot @ianrowley677 @joetheatheistp @RuleByLogic @OscarsWild1 @insane_voice @TheDisproof @Ceist8 @BradPKeyes @KCTaz @Fauntleroy1934 @DawnTJ90 @Jamz129 @Tangomitteckel @ancistroneura @joedieseldodge @BadgersNo @fknsavages27 @SimonPearson961 @JoeTheAtheist @CMorrisonEsq @maya_phd @CymaticWave @Schtickery @ClimateDepot @stevenmosher @sueytonius @Willard1951 @jc_Craze @DanCady @PolAnimalAus @ZombiePiano @SimonMaxfield8 @CrangusShish @IngersolRobert @Gladfly1 @AtomsksSanakan @leonardjcohen @Kenneth72712993 @FrankWi74044551 @GillesnFio @MATTP1949 @sciam @newscientist [1/12] Jack wrote, "GHGE surface warming is supposedly due to downwelling IR from upper troposphere…"

Actually, most of the downwelling LWIR which reaches the surface originates in the lower troposphere, very near the surface. (But, of course, it's warmed, in part, from above.)

@swcrisis @EthonRaptor @JsharkJill @nocowingbovril @Tokyo_Tom @ClimatePatriot @ianrowley677 @joetheatheistp @RuleByLogic @OscarsWild1 @insane_voice @TheDisproof @Ceist8 @BradPKeyes @KCTaz @Fauntleroy1934 @DawnTJ90 @Jamz129 @Tangomitteckel @ancistroneura @joedieseldodge @BadgersNo @fknsavages27 @SimonPearson961 @JoeTheAtheist @CMorrisonEsq @maya_phd @CymaticWave @Schtickery @ClimateDepot @stevenmosher @sueytonius @Willard1951 @jc_Craze @DanCady @PolAnimalAus @ZombiePiano @SimonMaxfield8 @CrangusShish @IngersolRobert @Gladfly1 @AtomsksSanakan @leonardjcohen @Kenneth72712993 @FrankWi74044551 @GillesnFio @MATTP1949 @sciam @newscientist [2/12] Jack wrote, "'Cold' radiation has to pass through successively thicker, warmer, atmospheric layers to reach surface."

There's no such thing as "cold radiation." Electromagnetic radiation has no temperature. Whether it passes thru or is absorbed depends on α(λ).

@swcrisis @EthonRaptor @JsharkJill @nocowingbovril @Tokyo_Tom @ClimatePatriot @ianrowley677 @joetheatheistp @RuleByLogic @OscarsWild1 @insane_voice @TheDisproof @Ceist8 @BradPKeyes @KCTaz @Fauntleroy1934 @DawnTJ90 @Jamz129 @Tangomitteckel @ancistroneura @joedieseldodge @BadgersNo @fknsavages27 @SimonPearson961 @JoeTheAtheist @CMorrisonEsq @maya_phd @CymaticWave @Schtickery @ClimateDepot @stevenmosher @sueytonius @Willard1951 @jc_Craze @DanCady @PolAnimalAus @ZombiePiano @SimonMaxfield8 @CrangusShish @IngersolRobert @Gladfly1 @AtomsksSanakan @leonardjcohen @Kenneth72712993 @FrankWi74044551 @GillesnFio @MATTP1949 @sciam @newscientist [3/12] Jack wrote, "GHGE says it will all be absorbed by atmosphere. on way down B4-hand!"

Whether radiation is absorbed or not by the atmosphere depends heavily on wavelength. The atmosphere is nearly transparent to some wavelengths, but almost completely opaque to others.

@swcrisis @EthonRaptor @JsharkJill @nocowingbovril @Tokyo_Tom @ClimatePatriot @ianrowley677 @joetheatheistp @RuleByLogic @OscarsWild1 @insane_voice @TheDisproof @Ceist8 @BradPKeyes @KCTaz @Fauntleroy1934 @DawnTJ90 @Jamz129 @Tangomitteckel @ancistroneura @joedieseldodge @BadgersNo @fknsavages27 @SimonPearson961 @JoeTheAtheist @CMorrisonEsq @maya_phd @CymaticWave @Schtickery @ClimateDepot @stevenmosher @sueytonius @Willard1951 @jc_Craze @DanCady @PolAnimalAus @ZombiePiano @SimonMaxfield8 @CrangusShish @IngersolRobert @Gladfly1 @AtomsksSanakan @leonardjcohen @Kenneth72712993 @FrankWi74044551 @GillesnFio @MATTP1949 @sciam @newscientist [4/12] In fact, that's how so-called "greenhouse warming" works. The Precious Air Fertilizer (CO2) acts as a dye in the atmosphere, which "colors" the atmosphere in the far infrared.

@swcrisis @EthonRaptor @JsharkJill @nocowingbovril @Tokyo_Tom @ClimatePatriot @ianrowley677 @joetheatheistp @RuleByLogic @OscarsWild1 @insane_voice @TheDisproof @Ceist8 @BradPKeyes @KCTaz @Fauntleroy1934 @DawnTJ90 @Jamz129 @Tangomitteckel @ancistroneura @joedieseldodge @BadgersNo @fknsavages27 @SimonPearson961 @JoeTheAtheist @CMorrisonEsq @maya_phd @CymaticWave @Schtickery @ClimateDepot @stevenmosher @sueytonius @Willard1951 @jc_Craze @DanCady @PolAnimalAus @ZombiePiano @SimonMaxfield8 @CrangusShish @IngersolRobert @Gladfly1 @AtomsksSanakan @leonardjcohen @Kenneth72712993 @FrankWi74044551 @GillesnFio @MATTP1949 @sciam @newscientist [5/12] Since most of the energy emissions FROM the Earth are far infrared, but most of the INCOMING energy is at shorter wavelengths, tinting the air in the infrared has a differential effect: it absorbs more outgoing radiation than incoming radiation. That causes warming.

@swcrisis @EthonRaptor @JsharkJill @nocowingbovril @Tokyo_Tom @ClimatePatriot @ianrowley677 @joetheatheistp @RuleByLogic @OscarsWild1 @insane_voice @TheDisproof @Ceist8 @BradPKeyes @KCTaz @Fauntleroy1934 @DawnTJ90 @Jamz129 @Tangomitteckel @ancistroneura @joedieseldodge @BadgersNo @fknsavages27 @SimonPearson961 @JoeTheAtheist @CMorrisonEsq @maya_phd @CymaticWave @Schtickery @ClimateDepot @stevenmosher @sueytonius @Willard1951 @jc_Craze @DanCady @PolAnimalAus @ZombiePiano @SimonMaxfield8 @CrangusShish @IngersolRobert @Gladfly1 @AtomsksSanakan @leonardjcohen @Kenneth72712993 @FrankWi74044551 @GillesnFio @MATTP1949 @sciam @newscientist [6/12] That's not how actual greenhouses work, but it's still a real effect.

The warming of the air, in turn, warms the ground, by several mechanisms, one of which is increased downwelling LW IR from the air.

@swcrisis @EthonRaptor @JsharkJill @nocowingbovril @Tokyo_Tom @ClimatePatriot @ianrowley677 @joetheatheistp @RuleByLogic @OscarsWild1 @insane_voice @TheDisproof @Ceist8 @BradPKeyes @KCTaz @Fauntleroy1934 @DawnTJ90 @Jamz129 @Tangomitteckel @ancistroneura @joedieseldodge @BadgersNo @fknsavages27 @SimonPearson961 @JoeTheAtheist @CMorrisonEsq @maya_phd @CymaticWave @Schtickery @ClimateDepot @stevenmosher @sueytonius @Willard1951 @jc_Craze @DanCady @PolAnimalAus @ZombiePiano @SimonMaxfield8 @CrangusShish @IngersolRobert @Gladfly1 @AtomsksSanakan @leonardjcohen @Kenneth72712993 @FrankWi74044551 @GillesnFio @MATTP1949 @sciam @newscientist [7/12] It doesn't take much of a trace gas to have a big effect on absorption & emission spectra of the atmosphere. If you add dye to a clear gas or liquid, and then shine through it a light which contains wavelengths that are absorbed by the dye, the gas or liquid must warm.

@swcrisis @EthonRaptor @JsharkJill @nocowingbovril @Tokyo_Tom @ClimatePatriot @ianrowley677 @joetheatheistp @RuleByLogic @OscarsWild1 @insane_voice @TheDisproof @Ceist8 @BradPKeyes @KCTaz @Fauntleroy1934 @DawnTJ90 @Jamz129 @Tangomitteckel @ancistroneura @joedieseldodge @BadgersNo @fknsavages27 @SimonPearson961 @JoeTheAtheist @CMorrisonEsq @maya_phd @CymaticWave @Schtickery @ClimateDepot @stevenmosher @sueytonius @Willard1951 @jc_Craze @DanCady @PolAnimalAus @ZombiePiano @SimonMaxfield8 @CrangusShish @IngersolRobert @Gladfly1 @AtomsksSanakan @leonardjcohen @Kenneth72712993 @FrankWi74044551 @GillesnFio @MATTP1949 @sciam @newscientist [8/12] That's because absorbing light adds energy. That makes the gas or liquid warmer that it would be without the dye. Even a few ppm of dye is sufficient to detect the effect.

@swcrisis @EthonRaptor @JsharkJill @nocowingbovril @Tokyo_Tom @ClimatePatriot @ianrowley677 @joetheatheistp @RuleByLogic @OscarsWild1 @insane_voice @TheDisproof @Ceist8 @BradPKeyes @KCTaz @Fauntleroy1934 @DawnTJ90 @Jamz129 @Tangomitteckel @ancistroneura @joedieseldodge @BadgersNo @fknsavages27 @SimonPearson961 @JoeTheAtheist @CMorrisonEsq @maya_phd @CymaticWave @Schtickery @ClimateDepot @stevenmosher @sueytonius @Willard1951 @jc_Craze @DanCady @PolAnimalAus @ZombiePiano @SimonMaxfield8 @CrangusShish @IngersolRobert @Gladfly1 @AtomsksSanakan @leonardjcohen @Kenneth72712993 @FrankWi74044551 @GillesnFio @MATTP1949 @sciam @newscientist [9/12] Consider the effect of food coloring on water: one drop of food coloring added to a liter of water will noticeably tint the whole liter, but one drop is only about 0.05 ml, so one drop in one liter is 0.05 / 1000 = 0.00005 = just 50 ppm.

@swcrisis @EthonRaptor @JsharkJill @nocowingbovril @Tokyo_Tom @ClimatePatriot @ianrowley677 @joetheatheistp @RuleByLogic @OscarsWild1 @insane_voice @TheDisproof @Ceist8 @BradPKeyes @KCTaz @Fauntleroy1934 @DawnTJ90 @Jamz129 @Tangomitteckel @ancistroneura @joedieseldodge @BadgersNo @fknsavages27 @SimonPearson961 @JoeTheAtheist @CMorrisonEsq @maya_phd @CymaticWave @Schtickery @ClimateDepot @stevenmosher @sueytonius @Willard1951 @jc_Craze @DanCady @PolAnimalAus @ZombiePiano @SimonMaxfield8 @CrangusShish @IngersolRobert @Gladfly1 @AtomsksSanakan @leonardjcohen @Kenneth72712993 @FrankWi74044551 @GillesnFio @MATTP1949 @sciam @newscientist [10/12] Except at the fringes of CO2's absorption bands, there's so much CO2 in the air that the atmosphere is very nearly opaque to the LWIR wavelengths which CO2 mainly blocks. Adding more CO2 has only a small effect.

@swcrisis @EthonRaptor @JsharkJill @nocowingbovril @Tokyo_Tom @ClimatePatriot @ianrowley677 @joetheatheistp @RuleByLogic @OscarsWild1 @insane_voice @TheDisproof @Ceist8 @BradPKeyes @KCTaz @Fauntleroy1934 @DawnTJ90 @Jamz129 @Tangomitteckel @ancistroneura @joedieseldodge @BadgersNo @fknsavages27 @SimonPearson961 @JoeTheAtheist @CMorrisonEsq @maya_phd @CymaticWave @Schtickery @ClimateDepot @stevenmosher @sueytonius @Willard1951 @jc_Craze @DanCady @PolAnimalAus @ZombiePiano @SimonMaxfield8 @CrangusShish @IngersolRobert @Gladfly1 @AtomsksSanakan @leonardjcohen @Kenneth72712993 @FrankWi74044551 @GillesnFio @MATTP1949 @sciam @newscientist [11/12] MODTRAN calculates that just 20 ppmv of CO2 would have fully half the warming effect of the current 415 ppmv.
burtonsys.com/climate/MODTRA…

@swcrisis @EthonRaptor @JsharkJill @nocowingbovril @Tokyo_Tom @ClimatePatriot @ianrowley677 @joetheatheistp @RuleByLogic @OscarsWild1 @insane_voice @TheDisproof @Ceist8 @BradPKeyes @KCTaz @Fauntleroy1934 @DawnTJ90 @Jamz129 @Tangomitteckel @ancistroneura @joedieseldodge @BadgersNo @fknsavages27 @SimonPearson961 @JoeTheAtheist @CMorrisonEsq @maya_phd @CymaticWave @Schtickery @ClimateDepot @stevenmosher @sueytonius @Willard1951 @jc_Craze @DanCady @PolAnimalAus @ZombiePiano @SimonMaxfield8 @CrangusShish @IngersolRobert @Gladfly1 @AtomsksSanakan @leonardjcohen @Kenneth72712993 @FrankWi74044551 @GillesnFio @MATTP1949 @sciam @newscientist [12/12] But additional CO2 still does have a warming effect, primarily due to the wavelengths corresponding to the narrow fringes of CO2's absorption bands, where CO2 is nearly-but-not-quite transparent.