Thread by @ncdave4life

@glinch72 @Willard1951 @ammocrypta @jwickers @Jaisans @AndyJ93519624 @IngersolRobert @FChecker76 @Data79504085 @AristotleMrs @dan613 @JohnDublin10 @TWTThisIsNow @geoguy_usa104 @Stephen90045069 @NonlinearDarren @Climatehope2 @flyonthewall182 @GregTruman4 @GregCoo85844909 @25_cycle @BrknMan @don85375 @ZSRenn @1tsakeeper @LizHersch1 @KCTaz @JustThi30117912 @gregchoat @Anvndarnamn5 @B_Bolshevik100 @NickMcGinley1 @RobMeekel @cieloyla @EthonRaptor @BradPKeyes @JSegor @Mark_A_Lunn @BridgetHolmstro @0Sundance @PeterMayfitz @omahas @TonyBoloni8 @TheDisproof @DanCady @Keeper_86 1/9
What's your point? Do you think El Nino is caused by a 0.001°C ocean temperature increase?

Angliss's claim was that a "barely measurable" 0.001°C temperature increase in the ocean "could drive a massive spike in global air temperature" (1°C).

That's completely wrong.

@glinch72 @Willard1951 @ammocrypta @jwickers @Jaisans @AndyJ93519624 @IngersolRobert @FChecker76 @Data79504085 @AristotleMrs @dan613 @JohnDublin10 @TWTThisIsNow @geoguy_usa104 @Stephen90045069 @NonlinearDarren @Climatehope2 @flyonthewall182 @GregTruman4 @GregCoo85844909 @25_cycle @BrknMan @don85375 @ZSRenn @1tsakeeper @LizHersch1 @KCTaz @JustThi30117912 @gregchoat @Anvndarnamn5 @B_Bolshevik100 @NickMcGinley1 @RobMeekel @cieloyla @EthonRaptor @BradPKeyes @JSegor @Mark_A_Lunn @BridgetHolmstro @0Sundance @PeterMayfitz @omahas @TonyBoloni8 @TheDisproof @DanCady @Keeper_86 2/9
First, an obvious nit: a 0.001°C increase in ocean temperature would not be "barely measurable," it would be immeasurable.

@glinch72 @Willard1951 @ammocrypta @jwickers @Jaisans @AndyJ93519624 @IngersolRobert @FChecker76 @Data79504085 @AristotleMrs @dan613 @JohnDublin10 @TWTThisIsNow @geoguy_usa104 @Stephen90045069 @NonlinearDarren @Climatehope2 @flyonthewall182 @GregTruman4 @GregCoo85844909 @25_cycle @BrknMan @don85375 @ZSRenn @1tsakeeper @LizHersch1 @KCTaz @JustThi30117912 @gregchoat @Anvndarnamn5 @B_Bolshevik100 @NickMcGinley1 @RobMeekel @cieloyla @EthonRaptor @BradPKeyes @JSegor @Mark_A_Lunn @BridgetHolmstro @0Sundance @PeterMayfitz @omahas @TonyBoloni8 @TheDisproof @DanCady @Keeper_86 3/9
But the main problem with what Angliss wrote is that basic thermodynamics tells us that a tiny increase in ocean temperature CANNOT cause a large increase in air temperature. The claim is nonsense.

#entropy -- it's the law

@glinch72 @Willard1951 @ammocrypta @jwickers @Jaisans @AndyJ93519624 @IngersolRobert @FChecker76 @Data79504085 @AristotleMrs @dan613 @JohnDublin10 @TWTThisIsNow @geoguy_usa104 @Stephen90045069 @NonlinearDarren @Climatehope2 @flyonthewall182 @GregTruman4 @GregCoo85844909 @25_cycle @BrknMan @don85375 @ZSRenn @1tsakeeper @LizHersch1 @KCTaz @JustThi30117912 @gregchoat @Anvndarnamn5 @B_Bolshevik100 @NickMcGinley1 @RobMeekel @cieloyla @EthonRaptor @BradPKeyes @JSegor @Mark_A_Lunn @BridgetHolmstro @0Sundance @PeterMayfitz @omahas @TonyBoloni8 @TheDisproof @DanCady @Keeper_86 4/9
Most of the "2nd law of thermodynamics" confusion that I run into is from "sky dragon slayer" crackpots at Principia-Scientific and their ilk. Their confusion is so over the top that it inspired me to doggerel:
sealevel.info/blogroll.html#…

But what Angliss wrote is just as wrong.

@glinch72 @Willard1951 @ammocrypta @jwickers @Jaisans @AndyJ93519624 @IngersolRobert @FChecker76 @Data79504085 @AristotleMrs @dan613 @JohnDublin10 @TWTThisIsNow @geoguy_usa104 @Stephen90045069 @NonlinearDarren @Climatehope2 @flyonthewall182 @GregTruman4 @GregCoo85844909 @25_cycle @BrknMan @don85375 @ZSRenn @1tsakeeper @LizHersch1 @KCTaz @JustThi30117912 @gregchoat @Anvndarnamn5 @B_Bolshevik100 @NickMcGinley1 @RobMeekel @cieloyla @EthonRaptor @BradPKeyes @JSegor @Mark_A_Lunn @BridgetHolmstro @0Sundance @PeterMayfitz @omahas @TonyBoloni8 @TheDisproof @DanCady @Keeper_86 5/9
The flow of heat between ocean and air (or between any two bodies in contact) is from warmer to cooler, and that the rate of heat flow is proportional to the temperature difference between them (& contact area), not the masses of the two objects.

@glinch72 @Willard1951 @ammocrypta @jwickers @Jaisans @AndyJ93519624 @IngersolRobert @FChecker76 @Data79504085 @AristotleMrs @dan613 @JohnDublin10 @TWTThisIsNow @geoguy_usa104 @Stephen90045069 @NonlinearDarren @Climatehope2 @flyonthewall182 @GregTruman4 @GregCoo85844909 @25_cycle @BrknMan @don85375 @ZSRenn @1tsakeeper @LizHersch1 @KCTaz @JustThi30117912 @gregchoat @Anvndarnamn5 @B_Bolshevik100 @NickMcGinley1 @RobMeekel @cieloyla @EthonRaptor @BradPKeyes @JSegor @Mark_A_Lunn @BridgetHolmstro @0Sundance @PeterMayfitz @omahas @TonyBoloni8 @TheDisproof @DanCady @Keeper_86 6/9
If you raise the temperature of the ocean by 0.001°C that will increase the rate of heat flow from ocean to air only until that temperature difference is eliminated. In other words, raising ocean temperature 0.001°C cannot warm the air by more than 0.001°C.

@glinch72 @Willard1951 @ammocrypta @jwickers @Jaisans @AndyJ93519624 @IngersolRobert @FChecker76 @Data79504085 @AristotleMrs @dan613 @JohnDublin10 @TWTThisIsNow @geoguy_usa104 @Stephen90045069 @NonlinearDarren @Climatehope2 @flyonthewall182 @GregTruman4 @GregCoo85844909 @25_cycle @BrknMan @don85375 @ZSRenn @1tsakeeper @LizHersch1 @KCTaz @JustThi30117912 @gregchoat @Anvndarnamn5 @B_Bolshevik100 @NickMcGinley1 @RobMeekel @cieloyla @EthonRaptor @BradPKeyes @JSegor @Mark_A_Lunn @BridgetHolmstro @0Sundance @PeterMayfitz @omahas @TonyBoloni8 @TheDisproof @DanCady @Keeper_86 7/9
If you're not convinced that I'm right, then please share this with people who have studied thermodynamics (most likely chemists), and ask them to evaluate Angliss' claim vs. mine.

@glinch72 @Willard1951 @ammocrypta @jwickers @Jaisans @AndyJ93519624 @IngersolRobert @FChecker76 @Data79504085 @AristotleMrs @dan613 @JohnDublin10 @TWTThisIsNow @geoguy_usa104 @Stephen90045069 @NonlinearDarren @Climatehope2 @flyonthewall182 @GregTruman4 @GregCoo85844909 @25_cycle @BrknMan @don85375 @ZSRenn @1tsakeeper @LizHersch1 @KCTaz @JustThi30117912 @gregchoat @Anvndarnamn5 @B_Bolshevik100 @NickMcGinley1 @RobMeekel @cieloyla @EthonRaptor @BradPKeyes @JSegor @Mark_A_Lunn @BridgetHolmstro @0Sundance @PeterMayfitz @omahas @TonyBoloni8 @TheDisproof @DanCady @Keeper_86 8/9
BTW, I sent essentially the same message to Mr. Angliss a few days ago, and asked him to correct his web page. He has not replied.

@glinch72 @Willard1951 @ammocrypta @jwickers @Jaisans @AndyJ93519624 @IngersolRobert @FChecker76 @Data79504085 @AristotleMrs @dan613 @JohnDublin10 @TWTThisIsNow @geoguy_usa104 @Stephen90045069 @NonlinearDarren @Climatehope2 @flyonthewall182 @GregTruman4 @GregCoo85844909 @25_cycle @BrknMan @don85375 @ZSRenn @1tsakeeper @LizHersch1 @KCTaz @JustThi30117912 @gregchoat @Anvndarnamn5 @B_Bolshevik100 @NickMcGinley1 @RobMeekel @cieloyla @EthonRaptor @BradPKeyes @JSegor @Mark_A_Lunn @BridgetHolmstro @0Sundance @PeterMayfitz @omahas @TonyBoloni8 9/9
@EthonRaptor @IngersolRobert @Willard1951 @stevenmosher Surely some of you understand this, and can confirm it to @glinch72. Right?

@rattibha @threadreaderapp please unroll or compile this.