Thread by @dolari

Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home Watchalong Thread starts here!

I'm gonna be up-front with y'all here. I'm one of the wierdos who DOESN'T like the whales movie. After three pretty heavy movies we need something light, but ST4 comes across as overly goofy to me, versus "fish out of water."

Not helping is Leonard Roseman's music, which has a super different and almost "Disney" feel to it. I wish they'd stuck with James Horner, but for ST3, that was Paramount's doing. Nimoy wanted Roseman's music for THAT, too.

Not 100% sure on this, but I believe that Meerson and Krikes did not have any material in the finished movie, but did write an earlier draft of it. They only got credit through arbitration. Bennett has gone on record saying he wrote the future scene, and Meyer the past scenes.

Harve Bennett went back to Nick Meyer and asked him if he'd write ST4. Nick replied that he wouldn't do it if he had to bring back Spock. Bennett said that Meyer wouldn't have to, because he had already brought him back. And Meyer was okay with that.

I've always loved this alien design. We only ever saw them twice.

Looks like video conversion from American VHS to Klingon Broadcast Standard isn't all that good.

They also got a lot of mileage out of that CGI from 1982. We're still seeing it five years later.

Need an Alien Vista? Head out to Vasquez Rocks. It's always the alien vista.

One of the first movie scripts I ever owned was ST:4. It actually had most of these questions listed in it. Dunno where it is now, though. I'd love to read it again.

That 1987 question is oddly specific.

And I'm okay, computer. How are you?

In another case of Trek trying hard to keep their original casts, they got Jane Wyatt to return as Spock's mother Amanda, from the episode Journey to Babel.

The WUB WUB WUB noise from the probe? That's actually Leonard Nimoy literally saying "WUB WUB WUB" into a mic and the sound guy working with it. Nimoy never liked any of the sounds he'd come up with for the probe and suggested Nimoy make the sound he wanted into the mic.

Hey look, it's the engineering table from TNG!

I remember being amazed as a kid that the entire scene on the big screen behind them was actually scripted out in an an appendix in the ST:4 script. I'd always thought stuff like that was ad-libbed.

Chekhov's Escape Hatch: If you see an escape hatch in Act 1, Scene 1, you must use it by Act 4, Scene 3.

Robin Curtis makes only a short appearance here as Saavik. A dropped subplot here is that she is pregnant with Spock's child from his Pon Farr on the Genesis planet.

The Klingon bridge has been heavily redesigned for ST:4, likely to make it more like the Enterprise's bridge. I can only imagine how Shatner would have acted as Kirk if he'd had that high-rise chair....

"First V'Ger, now this. WHY DID WE PUT DIRECTIONS TO EARTH ON ALL THOSE PROBES?!"

One of my issues with this movie is the characterization of Spock. Sure, he's gone through some trauma being dead and all and even a mind transfusion. But he often comes across as the Hardy half of Laurel and Hardy.

I always found it odd that the Klingons would have detailed information on Earths aquatic species. I mean, twenty five years of Klingon Culture later it makes sense, but back then, not to me.

Majel Barrett and Grace Lee Whitney get a few moments again as Doctor Chapel and and Cadet(?!) Rand.

Ah, a fine morning in San Francisco.

I'm a huge fan of Brock Peters. He doesn't do much here, but I love LOVE him as Sisko's dad (as well as Darth Vader in the radio plays).

DON'T EAT KLINGON MEAL PACK #65. IT'S GONE BAD.

"Captain, I'm recieving whalesong!"
"Let's hear it."
Jenn: "Oh, that's 99.5 KWHL. All whalesong, all the time."

I've been to San Francisco. Spock'll fit right in.

There's a big tonal shift in the movie when the Trek folks show up in 1987. After years of seeing these characters in a kind of "controlled" universe where they're expected to be X Y and Z because it's the future, suddenly they're in an episode of Law & Order.

It also helps that Nick Meyer takes over the writing duties here. You've heard about the stories that the even Trek movies are better than the odd ones? Nick Meyer worked on 2, 4 and 6. Nick, for being a Trek outsider at the outset, writes Good Trek.

"Double Dumb Ass On You" entered my lexicon on November 26, 1986 at the tender age of 12. Kirk said it, so it has to be okay.

"I'll give you $100."
"Is that a lot?"
Jenn: Back then it was a fortune. Nowadays GameStop just gives you $5 in store credit.

In the script draft I had, the whales were actually named "Adam and Evie." Little on the nose there. I did like the change over to George & Gracie.

A scene that was planned, but never filmed was that Sulu was to meet his great-great-grandfather in San Francisco. Sadly the child actor was unhappy to be there, and apparently his mother didn't help matters. While the shot was set up, it wasn't filmed.

"Noo Clee Arrr WHESSELS." That'll NEVER get old.

The scene where Chekov and Uhura are asking passersby about where the NOOCLEEARR WHESSELS are was for the most part adlibbed, but everyone walking by were extras, told not to speak on camera.

xcept this one woman who was never told to not speak (if you speak on camera, your pay changes and usually you get a credit). She did, and it was so genuine they kept it. They had to run over real quick and get her to sign paperwork to keep her lines in.

During the planning for the punk scene, Kirk Thatcher (an associate producer) was tapped to play the punk. He asked Leonard Nimoy about what music was going to played and as a punk fan, completely hated what they were going to play.

So overnight, he assembled some of the film crew and recorded "I HATE YOU" for the scene to be played instead.

You can listen to the whole song here:

Catherine Hicks makes her appearance as Kirk's love interest Doctor Gillian Taylor. Originally, this role (although probably not the Love Interest part) was going to be played by Eddie Murphy! He was extremely popular from his SNL and Beverly Hills Cop roles.

His version of the Doctor Taylor character would have been an eccentric scientist who believed aliens existed. He took on the movie The Golden Child instead. I wonder how that worked out for him.

I've always had mixed emotions about the scene with the whale hunting. I understand that the whales are why we are in this adventure, and that Dr Taylor is very passionate.

But between the footage, the preachy-versus-passionate acting here and the complete halt in story, it feels very much like a "Let's stop the movie and talk directly to the audience at home about important issues on this Very Special Episode of Star Trek."

Me, too, Jim. Me, too.

A few years ago, I visited San Francisco to see friends. We weren't there for very long, so I had a choice of two things I could do - the 49 Mile Scenic Drive, or visit some of the shooting locations for ST:4. I decided on the scenic drive.

I enjoyed it, but after visiting some of the locations where they filmed the Dr Who movie in Vancouver, I'd think I'd like to try San Francisco and ST:4's location shoots again.

I had a teacher who served on the actual Enterprise aircraft carrier. I took a poster with this shot to him, and was sad to hear that this wasn't actually the Enterprise. He could tell just from the poster that it wasn't his ship.

And look, it's my old pickup if she was born in 1980!

I do like that they broke the team up and told very different stories with them.

Kirk & Spock: Laurel & Hardy Go To Sea World.
Uhura & Chekov: Hard Workers In Over Their Heads But Doing Okay.
Sulu: STEALING HELICOPTERS.
McCoy & Scotty: Good actors playing bad actors.

"Hello, Computer."

This is one of those moments everyone loves but that I feel does a disservice to the Scotty character. He's an engineer. He loves tech manuals.

He'd know a mouse if he saw it. One of the many times this movie goes from fun comedy to silly comedy.

"Trust you two with my life savings? Sure! I'll buy your life insurance!"

"You realize if we give him this formula, we're changing history?"
"Are we? How do we know he didn't invent it?"
Jenn "DO YOU WANT THE DEPARTMENT OF TEMPORAL INVESTIGATIONS? CAUSE THIS IS HOW YOU GET THE DEPARTMENT OF TEMPORAL INVESTIGATIONS."

Gillian: "Large Pepperoni and mushrooms with extra onions and a Michelob, please?"
Kirk: "Make that two."

I always got the idea that Gillian ordered the pizza for both of them to share, and then Kirk just asked for another. Do they not have pizza in the 23rd century?

One of the things I found hard to understand was why Dr Taylor decides to hang out with the guy who messing with her whales. She drives them "home," takes Kirk for pizza and even plays at buying into the 23rd century story Kirk gives her.

She does mention that she wants to know who they are and what they want with the whales. And then gets emotional talking about how they could die in the ocean.

It's almost like she walking the line between investigating them, and desperation over the whales.

Name.
I do not know your name!
You play games and you're THROUGH.
I am? May I go now?

Another shot that devolves into silliness. Chekov's characterization in this movie is so off from previous movies. I can't tell if this is Chekov purposely playing dumb or actually being dumb.

The shipboard scenes on the "Enterprise" were actually filmed on the same ship that stood in for her in the exterior shots. The USS Ranger, I believe.

Remember to remain inconspicuous when stealing a helicopter with sheets of transparent aluminum that are being handed off to a floating guy in the air.

He probably didn't steal it. I just like thinking he did.

In the 24 hours the ship's been there, how has no one else bumped into the ship? It's Golden Gate Park....

Of all the team-ups in this movie, I think McCoy, Kirk and Gillian are the best. They really feel like (1) they're making this up as a they go along (2) they're working off each other to move the plan along and (3) meshing like a real unit.

Bonus: McCoy getting to be something he rarely is in the movies. A doctor.

Cop: "How's the patient, Doctor?"
Kirk: "He's gonna make it
Cop: "He? You came in with a she!"
Jenn: "HIS NAME IS PAVEL CHEKOV AND HE WOULD LIKE YOU TO RESPECT HIS LIFE CHOICES!"

I'm not a fan of the ST4 music at all, and unfortunately, between this chase and the Chekov chase earlier, he really drops the ball. While the hospital chase is clearly played for laughs, the Chekov one wasn't. But both are fairly lighthearted sounding pieces that just...

...convey zero danger. It makes these shots feel "cutsey"versus "funny danger" in the case of the hospital or "real danger" in the case of Chekov's run.

The pill that grows a kidney in a few minutes is another cutesy joke that I just don't feel belongs in Trek-style Sci Fi.

Cutsey. That's the word I'd put on this movie.

The more I watch Gillian the more I realize she's not in love with Kirk. She's in love with the whales. And Kirk is her way to get to them. She was just lucky that his "cockamamie fish story" was true. Even to the point of dumping him for the whales in the 23rd century.

Leonard Roseman's music finally rises up for the occasion, helping to sell what could have been a fairly silly image of the Bird of Prey scaring the whaling ship. To me, this proves the pieces in this movie are there.

They're just not always meshing for me, personally.

I remember reading that the whale puppets seen at the end were so convincing that the Paramount recieved complaints from animal rights organizations that they were harassing wild animals. Can't find any corroboration on that anymore, though. They are pretty good looking.

And now we're back to Harve Bennett's portion of the script, the 23rd Century.

In the movie, Kirk goes to free the whales before the ship sinks. Something that didn't make the cut from the scripts was the reason - the whales will drown. They're mammals and need to breathe air.

The sound designer had trouble creating the sounds for the communication between the probe and the whales, mainly because he didn't understand how they were going to interact. So Harve had to do a bit of a"puppet show" showing how the whales were going to move during the scene.

I actually really love the sounds of the probe. Alien but PLAUSIBLY whale song.

The final scenes in the water were for the most part ad-libbed and eventually devolved into them having fun in the water.

Either they're really good actors, or they're having a ton of fun in the Paramount water tank.

I bet that was the best day of shooting.

Now that we've had two seasons of Lower Decks...is this a Kzinti or Caitian?

I love that now that Gillian has her whales, she pretty much gives Kirk the brush-off. It's a nice turn on Kirk getting the girl. This time not only did the girl get Kirk, she left him for George and Gracie.

Apparently there were a few comics where the two had a boat together and they were "watched over" the whales.

I also love that Spock and Sarek finally get their moment. Their history had them at odds with each other over Spock's enlistment in Starfleet over the Vulcan Science Academy. And yet, when Spock died, Sarek risked a lot to get him back. It's nice to see that the two make amends.

A nice group shot of the cast in what could have been their final outing at the end of the unexpected trilogy. But there's someone missing. And slapping an "A" on another ship sadly won't bring her back for me.

But hey, we get Okudagrams, and Okudagrams rock.

And that was Star Trek 4. At the beginning of this thread, I mentioned it's not my favorite movie because I found it quite silly and even preachy at the Institute. But I realize it's not that.

I don't have anything against Star Trek comedy. I love Trouble With Tribbles, and I love Lower Decks. There's a good story here, there's good writing, and the ending is sweet.

But here, between the occasional crossing of the line to silliness and the music not helping things, it became "cutesy." It's not a deal-breaker at all (I mean, I can still watch Final Frontier), but it's cutesy that's the turn off for me.

I may do a Motion Picture watchalong one day. That day is not going to be today. Or maybe this week or month. I have WAY WAY WAY too much info on TMP and that could quickly become a job.

But I may do it. One day.