Thread by @DragonCobolt

So, friends, family, loved ones...I am about to head to work in, uh, 20 minutes.

But this thread is going to be my SCREAMING because, for the past 23 years, I have been obsessed with Homeworld, an RTS from 1999.

...that just got a TTRPG adaptation

I knew it!!!!! While some friends are going to be sad the Taiidani aren't, like, lizard people or something, it doesn't fit the vibe. Homeworld is a secondary world fantasy, damn it!

Damn straight!!!

The fun thing about buying Homeworld is using it I now actually know how the fucking Star Trek: Adventures RPG works because....I actually think the 2d20 system they use is really good. It's just that the ST:A book is the WORST FORMATTED BOOK IN THE UNIVERSE

Note the Sobani red and flag patches on her uniform! Also, the fact that she's Rad and Cool

A huge mechanical change that is, imo, for the best: They removed the momentum spend (momentum is basically bonus successes) that lets you ignore resistance. Resistance reduces damage. This will A) mean armor actually means something now as it used to be SO EASY to nix and B)

It will mean that weapons with Pierce 1 or Pierce 2 (which ignore armor) will ACTUALLY FUNCTIONALLY HAVE A FUCKING POINT.

I'm reading the rules fast but, again, I cannot overstate this: The formatting is so, so, so, so, SO much better and the rules are way, way, way, way, WAY more comprehendible now - despite changing very little between ST:A and this

PAUSE. i will resume reading/posting in about 2 hours, but my first shift is up!

Hey, these rules aren't from ST:A! that's because, due to budget, Star Trek cannot have microgravity fight scenes

This is a clever way to really reward pilots in personal combat, I like it

Oooh they've upped the number of injuries it takes to put you down and out from 1 to 2!

I...really don't understand why they had two rules for cover and were like, "Ehh, use either, it's fine!"

I personally prefer the "increase diff" myself, but increasing armor works too for guns that can literally shoot through cover...

our first look at some civilian stuff!

I love how you can tell that the space battle art is largely just...pictures from the game prettied up. Which, like, works becuase Homeworld remastered is one of the most pretty games ever made

Interesting!!!! they're keeping the extremely star trekky rule of supporting characters, I didn't expect that!

I like this, mechanically, but there's...like...there's two big reasons why Tiia might, uh...might not want to touch a Taiidani...

it's ma boys, the Paktu!

Haha holy shit yes!!!!!! YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Homeworld has always had this lovely blend of hard nosed space opera and like...mysticism??? it's good! I love it! also HNNNGNGNGH

LOOK AT THE KIITH SOMTAAW ICONIC????

Love the almost but not quite recognizable numerals and letters

So, one thing I've immediately noticed is that this game's chargen system - a lot like ST:A's - is extremely focused. This is both good and bad...it means running a game anywhere not in the "Homeworld 1/Cataclysm" era is...tricky?

but also the system is relatively simple and easily tweaked, like...it's just a guideline for how to distribute points, you can refluff and rewrite it SO easy

Once again, I adore the flag patches that the Homeworld uniforms have for Kiith affiliation, unfortunately, this art gets 0/10 stars because there are no white people in Homeworld 😔

it's very funny to me that they kept the "two rolls" for random events in your career, but because Homeworld is a lot less...silly than Star Trek, the...list is a lot shorter, there's no "meeting space god"

Okay, so, like......... you all know there are ranks between Crewman and LT right?

Reading the talents: Some I think are a bit too pricy in terms of Momentum costs, but overall, they're a lot better than ST:A's talents in terms of giving characters Things To Do that distinguish themselves.

ooooh...

OOOOOHHHHHHHH 👀👀👀👀👀👀

amazing, you can literally MINE FOR XP

If you asked me what the Taiidani weapons would be like, this is what I would write

If you asked me about Turanic Raiders, this is also what I would write

*@lorenziniforce has entered the chat*

i am so fucking happy with this gun design?? it's such a taiidani gun, you can see how parts of it attach and deatch, this gun is a 2,200 years old design

On to the most important chap

@Delethiel see, this is how you know it's homeworld 1 classic

this is the entire weapon list - and honestly, it's just about perfect! Like...you hit every possibility, and each one is distinct. Like, ACTUALLY distinct, they all have different features and do different things, love it!

also, HUGE improvement from the game: Bombers can ACTAULLY DEAL DAMAGE TO ENEMY CAPITALS NOW

this is how you know this is Homeworld and not Star Trek, in Star Trek "Scale 1-2 get +1 diff to hit" flatly, so you can just sweep fighters out of the sky with your Galaxy class phaser arrays. This? Noooooope, try hitting a diff 5 fighter with an ion cannon turret, NOT happening

@RvengefuLobster sadly, it looks like we...don't have the WORST possible version, but it's not the ludicrously in depth nonsense we both wanted :(

OOF, POOR LIGHT CORVETTE i do appreciate the fidelity to the game, though

*activates goblin mode*

my baby...my precious baby...

YES THEY HAVE DISTINCT STATS FOR I-ARRAY AND MULTIBEAMS!!!!

👀👀👀👀👀👀👀👀👀👀

This is...a bizarre statblock like...hi, it's nice to see you too Elson, but why is your specific ship in the general statblocks? The stats aren't even different, this is JUST a destroyer statblock!

@RvengefuLobster YOU CAN USE PDAS TO ATTACK ENEMY SHIPS AS A WEAPON OF LAST RESORT!!!!!!!!!!!!

@LeafTilde

haha wow that would be...wild...wouldn't it........

oh my god, oh my god, oh my god, Kadeshi are belter Kushannn ghuijsonduaisbhydojkspoad,l kjnb

Kadeshi

nooooooooooooo ahhhhhhhh i'm getting weepy over a 23 year old rts mission joubiyvgtbhnjmk

the Kadeshi are honest!!! they DO take you in, they're not lying!

NO IF THE KUSHAN HAD JUST ACCEPTED.................................................. WHAT IF....... AUUUUUUUUUH

tone shift: hah bentusi keep the best stuff

holy shit, Bentusi ships are Babylon 5???? people just...live on them??? and like, they're the safest place TO live, holy shit

it sucks when your space emperor spends half of third shift convinced he's made of glass

So, Rissitue IS paranoid AND mad, buuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuut I think he's paranoid like a fox, considering he leads a restive, turbulent brutal space empire that has lasted 5,000 years, like, he has to have survived so many assassination attempts

This is where I think mechanically, their rules break down. They do weight the headshot asteroid HARD towards doing lots of damage...but...you need to do 6 breaches at once to the Kushan mothership to blow it up, and this will only do, at max, 3. because that's THE max!

It's okay, imo, to just give it the special rule of "If it hits you, you die"

Oooh

Also, they're having their cake AND eating it - there are ALSO rules for UNIQUE SHIP BUILDING!!!!!!! HYPE!

So, the ship building system is relatively simple, but it is robust enough to make for interesting/weird one off ships that PCs absolutely would get (like espionage frigates)

Okay!

Mechanically: I really like it, my only real complaint is the "racial stats" for the various Kiith and how little consideration there is for playing Taiidani or Kadeshi characters, but the chargen is simple enough, you can houserule around it EASILY.

Now, it's time for the HISTORICAL BRIEFING, which is where me and @Delethiel may have to throw the most rotten fruit, or cheer lustily, depending on if the writers did a Good or Bad job

immediately, a vibe I like: Even when referring to the pre-exile Hiigaran Empire, the people are still "The Kushan" - they are the Kushan people, even if once they lived on Hiigara.

Which means them being Hiigarans in the post-Exile era...is VERY INTERESTING, isn't it???

Oh wait, no, it was a typo, lol

I like how the blue sidebar is...lets say...a bit Biased.

(Also, the "ideological science and logic" people then went on to destroy the Gaalsiem, who WERE ENTIRELY RIGHT, THEIR HUBRIS DOOMED US ALL!)

I love calendric confusion!

holy shit LANCER CROSSOVER!?

The idea of the Kushan being a people caught between legendary past, bloodstained present, and the gulfs of horrors yet to come if they make the same mistakes as their ancestors...MMM, good vibes

And once again, we must pause - I have to get to work!!!!!

And I'm back! So, like, an important detail I love from HW:C's manual is that...actually, most Taiidani *didn't* remember the Hiigarans, that was the whole point

imagine how different history would have been had they landed at the POLES and not crashed in the equator...

"A long history" meaning it happened, like, once in the prequel game.

EXTRAKHARAKIAN

wow, and I thought *I* was a DoK stickler, the writers of the homeworld RPG just...flat up ignore it!

Oooh, Plot hook plot hook!

the important thing we need to know about Meveth Saglad, which is NOT clarified anywhere, is was she a mad hottie like Evie O'Connel!?

I adore this??? I love that they don't lean into the idea that Karan was some perfect super-bestest at everything. No, she was good, had an idea, and yet, was also eminently expendable...do you know how much pathos you can get from that? Do you know how much self doubt?? Love it!

The vibes in the historical section are...frustrating cause there's a lot here that's good and right, but someone here REALLY wants to lay on, "Violence and war are a part of humanity" SO hard that it just runs contrary to the game

While fury and revenge is a part of the Homeworld War, what always struck me most about the characters involved is the fact that they have no room for anything but professionalism and hard work because making ANY mistake now will kill everyone. It's a war of desperation and cold

But onto some good vibes, breaking the war down into distinct campaigns and battles feels REAL good

Booooo!!!! Contrast this with HW:C manual's description of these events. Like, I'm sure some were mad at "decadence" like the fucking fascists that float to the top there, but come on...

I will forgive them for the slight of giving the Beast War 3 paragraphs of detail while giving the Homeworld 2 setting 4 paragraphs...ONLY IF they release a Beast War splatbook, WHICH I WILL THEN BUY

Well, yeah, they're Bedouins?

@RvengefuLobster imagine the Kadeshis' expression when a Hiigaran fleet arrives to help PROTECT the nebula

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm some kind of...Core city, a Corecity, if you will, a planet spanning Coruscant

@Delethiel does this own or suck, I'm torn

@Delethiel It's very Stars Wars, but it's the part of Star Wars I like

...yeah that sounds like something that dipshit would do

So far, I will put the Homeworld RPG vibes as below Cat, but high above Homeworld 2

I do love how the Sobani are like, "What if we took the Spartans, then made them not assholes?" like, by actually changing their culture and ideology, not by just ignoring it

@LeafTilde HE HAS A NAME!?

homeworld JAG is not an idea i was thinking about until now

i assure you "seemed" is doing a lot of heavy lifting there

...I think they used the wrong word there

@LeafTilde @RvengefuLobster @DeviLacroix IT'S HER!!!!

IT'S HER!!!!!!!!! IT'S FLEET INTELIGENCE FROM HOMEWORLD CATACYLSM!

So, like, I may be misreading this...but, like, this backstory on Karen...it...

I think that they're going, "Rachel is not Karan's grandmother. They're both just S'jets." WHICH...THANK YOU!??!?!?

Well well welllllllll it looks like we have actual MATERIAL for Kiithid politics!!!!

Headcanon: Sobani/Somtaaw marriages are so ungodly common

I was going to say "only acceptable use of white people" but no, I'm sticking to my guns, the Taiidani should all not be white too

Oh, good! They did keep that, though a bit not as emphasized as I'd have had it

BOOO!!! This is the worldbuilding equivalent of wimping out! I will now headcanon an entire Turanic origin myth into existence

HOLY SHIT the author realizes that pirates and raiders aren't just random mcmurdermen who do the quarter murder with cheese every day!?

Headcanon, this "strange truce" makes absolute sense when you realize the Turanic Raiders take what they need, prior Taiidani occupiers took everything to sell at profit

"hey, wanna have all the names and organization of the Kadeshi ships?"

Me: Y...Yes...

!!!!!!!!!!!!!?!?!??!?!?!?!?!?!?!? @RvengefuLobster !?!?!?!?!?!?!?

OVER HALF!??!?!?

OVER HALF??????

ASSUMING A POPULATION OF SIMILAR SIZE, ESCAPE PODS, THAT MEANS THE KADESHI COULD BE AS LARGE A KIITH AS FUCKING NABAAL

I love that "Bentusi Traders" like, they're not capitalists or anything, they're peaceful explorers who accidentally stumbled into being vital parts of interstellar economics because they have the fastest ships. Like, I feel the oldest Bentusi are still mildly bemused by this

My favorite thing about the Homeworld setting is that the Progenitors are 10,000 years old. The Naggeroth is a MILLION years old.

The theme of cycles continues - cycles of not just empire, but cycles of forgetting and growth. It is a galaxy of layered ruins, atop one another...

Some deeply Good Vibes Art

not really, but I'm a weird nerd

Tag yourself, I'm ALL OF THEM

Showing SHOCKING restraint, after 270 pages, the Homeworld RPG shows us some Horny Karen S'Jet Art

...wh...wh...

I need to contact them on Discord, because they have TWO DIFFERENT CHARACTER ADVANCEMENT SYSTEMS!? They have the milestone system from Star Trek: Adventures AND the RU system that they made up??? ?????????

more like a Turanic Cutie

...Adora!?

...that's JUST BURN GORMAN!!??

Ah, I see! They hid the "How to play non-Kushan characters" in the NPC section, just like with Star Trek and playing a Klingon

oh no I kin the Turanic raiders oh noooo😭😭😭😭😭

@RvengefuLobster this is 4 u

Holy shit they actually have rules for playing Unbound! They're fairly thin, but with this rules light, narrative heavy system, THEY WORK!?

And with the index, we have hit the end!

THE GOOD: The 2d20 system, refined and better explained, looks as if it will be really fun - doubly so thanks to the RU advancement mechanics. The fluff I like is all very good if awkwardly written, and the universe I adore is now open!

THE EHH: A lot of the nitty gritty writing is not exactly setting my world aflame from a prose perspective.

THE FOR ACTUAL BAD: Holy shit there's some yikes stuff in there about Kiith Kaalel being an entire culture of sneaky lying backstabbers to the last

And more than that, the author gets ANNOYINGLY close to grasping really interesting cyclical consequences inherent to the game's setting of empires and states, but then never quite actually engages with them.

On the whole, rad! Love it a lot!

...like, yeah, the bad sounds bad, but this is the easiest kind of artistic product to take and create and iterate what you want out of it, and there's enough good here to bloom a thousand wonderful stories for fans of Homeworld.

I strongly recommend everyone buys a copy.

Please do so so that they will make a Beast War sourcebook, please. PLEASE.