Thread by @DarrenODonovan

#RobodebtRC Final Day.
It's goodness that changes minds and the world.
Again and again, we saw what a social security system should be about from the people who suffered. I'm thinking again of Sandra Bevan's description of her job. That's what matters ultimately.

I expect people will be saying thanks to Greggery and Holmes a fair bit today.
I accept us demented, livetweeting loraxes have literally coined a cult of Greggery- (now including merch)
But let's be more subtle. If you watched this, read the next tweet in a Holmes Whisper...

Jess...
Jess...
Please pass our thanks to every person working for the Commission behind the scenes, who we never even saw.
Thank them for taking short term contracts to do this mad sprint.
May everyone involved carry a bit of it with them, and go onto great things #RobodebtRC

It's funny how the ever presence of Jess, helping with documents, sorting things out, off camera, embodies that group of staff. Thanks to our off camera icon! #RobodebtRC

Important from Ms Preston, requests to consider special circumstances waivers literally disappeared in the wave of robodebts.

Special circumstances = the key mechanism for helping people at such an extreme level of deprivation and safety, debt should be waived #RobodebtRC

How does someone get a waiver for extreme deprivation and suffering via an online portal?

They don't, unless they can narrate their pain over the phone (if the number is given). The law imposes an administrative burden to *storytell*&administer your trauma #robodebtRC

You talk to centrelink staff and they will tell you:

We need case management.
The silo'ed transaction by transaction narrowness is causing so much pain.
Return us to our social work roots, please.

Ms Preston embodying this again
#RobodebtRC

I'm really happy we are ending with 'not politicians or management'
In terms of whoknewwhatery we can do no more.
But the unresolved, massive governance and accountability problems are still roaring out even now. Like just this week, consider:
#RobodebtRC

The experienced Ms Macleod from the Ombudsman, told us DHS/Services Australia has zero respect to AAT decisions, refuse to feed its work out to change the system. Not just for the complainant but for everyone at the frontline

I agree 1000% even though it hurts #RobodebtRC

And then Luke Baker last night, lay a further worrying dynamic right in front of the Commission.

AAT members - yes - who were affirming averaging, and not just that, restoring it as a gap filler where authorised review officers had earlier backed off it
#RobodebtRC

Kath, such a brave fighter, is on now. Go well everyone. #RobodebtRC robodebt.royalcommission.gov.au/submission/cou…

Kath is here for reform folks. She has fought for years to restore care to the system. #RobodebtRC

We think of Jarrad today, as we aim for better.

He gave me so many proud moments...we were very close and Jarrad would escort me to parties...everyone would compliment me on the way he would put his arm around me with no shame and displayed his love for me quite openly"
A picture of goodness #RobodebtRC

Just to note: I am just going to watch this. Kath is doing so wonderfully. It's all a bit too hard for me to live tweet it #RobodebtRC

I will resume to note that Kath wrote to the then PM and did not get a response.
And she is now speaking about the work of @emcpherson_9 . Emily, thank you for all your efforts. "because nobody was listening to me" #robodebtRC

Kath's submission to the Royal Commission is calling for proactive case management of vulnerable people. A living duty of care. #RobodebtRC

I'm still his mother even if he's not here.
And not wanting it to happen to anyone else.
#RobodebtRC

Lots of thoughts today really. When we get the final report, please roar for change.
It was important to separate robodebt out from party political knockabout/frames and give the issues the gentleness of thought. #robodebtRC

We are dropping back to the timeline to wrap 2 important witnesses. First is John Barnett, a DHS lawyer on the scene in 2015 and 2017. Significant as he will speak to interactions with compliance around the time of the pilot and launch, and fed stuff up in Jan 2017. #RobodebtRC

The 3 legal advices DHS legal (his team) provide in 2015 miss the point entirely. Services Australia reviews in 2019 themselves acknowledge, effectively 'bugger all legals on launch'. #robodebtRC

We are discussing over the meaning of the instructions to Barnett. They were a mess, the advice was mess, end to end mess to be frank. This isn't going to be very coherent I predict. #robodebtRC

Good example of the mess right here, Scott, reads the request for advice: did you think it was going to be an automated decision
"There always have to be a decision-maker" -
Advice said automated assessment, does that mean decision?
Mess
#RobodebtRC

The April legals get closest, in the sense the request is on averaging arguably, but the lawyer flubs, avoids it.
Of course, if DHS were confident in legality in draft NPPs, why are they even going after the cabinet tick!? #RobodebtRC

Request for advice: any impediment to this?
The advice, in answer, for me amounts to:
something something- best practice - hedged comment - best practice something something #RobodebtRC

Mr Barnett says he did not realise averaging was going to be the only data point, applied in blissful isolation #robodebtRC
Robodebt sailed on...

The advice's emphasis is on coercive notices, which were not a part of robodebt

Barnett is saying he thought he was advising on a programme where averaging was a 'consideration' and 'not viewed in isolation'
Bugger.
All.
Legals.
#RobodebtRC

So with that banked. Let us progress to 2017, when Mr Barnett is also on the scene.

We're going on a Advice Hunt
We're going to catch a class action

What's that! No legals. We can't get around it, we can't get over it... etc
#robodebtRC

So Mr Barnett agreed with Gladman that he thought DHS were in trouble in 2017. 'didn't add up'
Will Mr Barnett tells us where 'best information available' thing came from?' We saw the Carmody edits etc #RobodebtRC

Barnett wanted the AGS advice. He assisted in preparing the draft advice instructions with Mr Daly (who took great notes with helpful underlining at the Hanks conference) #robodebtRc

That was basically just to confirm. It was a mess. The lawyer didn't know what he was advising on. His advice didn't relate to the programme etc #RobodebtRC

Fiveash, who was right on the law, saying 'nope' in 2017. Got bundled into an email for higher ups.
Might see the classic Greggery lines run here:
"Didn't pass in the corridors...?"
"Chat over lunch?"
"...not even at the water cooler?"
#robodebtRC

Greggery is in phase 1 which:
You knew your stuff right...
You were usually listened to right

Then we'll move to the email he sends
#RobodebtRC

Lol, due to people being on leave, Fiveash was acting General Counsel. And he wrote directly to Musolino to highlight 'the information piece' email. Musolino says she never read the material sent to her, went to her deputy #robodebtRC

Fiveash recalls no conversation with Ms Musolino, so all we have is the email.

#robodebtRC

Fiveash had
"no recollection until I saw it on the ABC news that I had given the advice"
Greggery led the block with it as a revelation if you recall
#RobodebtRC

In his statement Fiveash says Secretary Campbell's first question when interacting with lawyers tended to be:
....
"What is the legal basis for doing this?"
#RobodebtRC

Lol, his statement says his legal advice was always brief because of DHS' habit of reading only the short answer on long advices #RobodebtRC
He does say he didn't intend a 'full answer' to the initial request, but just the stat references were missing.

"I knew that something had happened later in the month...there was a sudden feeling of panic about who had written what and provided advice..."

Lol,Greggery zooms in on "sudden feeling of panic" #RobodebtRC

Fiveash found DHS legal hierarchical. Says leadership team tended to cloister and resolve the big stuff.
Wow: dumps on Maris says he wrote advice which wasn't good. It was his level rather than his level knowledge!
#robodebtRC

The advice once emailed, was never mentioned to him again
#RobodebtRC
Water cooler time?

Wasn't aware of any particular projects "coming and going"
#RobodebtRC What about the existence of averaging?
He pivots to FTB annual payments etc. "I would ahve assumed people were not using averaging in a context they weren't allowed to"

"I said to people [when I saw robodebt stories] If only somebody has asked me I would have told them not to do it"
Didn't remember he had commented. Wow, what mental states we have discovered over the course of this thing #RobodebtRC

Mr Fiveash is left on that I think, a never came up, missed the significance vibe #RobodebtRC

On the constitutional risk assessment thing: Fiveash confirms, contra Turnbull, that it was a check on Williams and legislative authority for expenditure
#RobodebtRC

To go beyond that narrow tick, you have to ask for a 'stage 2' advice from AGS.
Fiveash confirms that was never sought in the NPP process for this thing #RobodebtRC

Oh my, Fiveash, had hands on the NPP as a set of eyes on the risk assessment. So the damn thing was the hands of someone whose brain was right later on. The NPP didn't trigger his notice. Arrgh #RobodebtRC

Sends it across to some people at DSS, again this is part of the narrower risk process.
Greggery:
"What do you recall of the DSS interest in the AGS advice on the SWIP NPP?"
#RobodebtRC

Haha, fun prompt by Ms Marsh, who might be a little surprised to see a full legal advice heaved across between departments. how did you guys work on legal issues. Fiveash says advice handling 'was a little confused at times" #RobodebtRC

Looking forward to Greggery's closing. Quick heads up that, I'm going to be departing this platform soon. If there's anything you want to find (e.g. fun images for lectures, links to AATs,) go grab. I'll give a heads up before I go as well. #robodebtRC

Don't worry about surging into any comments on my departure, hasn't happened yet, and I'm pretty tried, so let's not chat about it! #robodebtRC

Speaking of images for lectures, magnificent and wounding. The APS has to fightback from this, and there's so many good people to do it. We should change the environment around them, and open 'em up. #robodebtRC theguardian.com/commentisfree/…

The last witness will be Melanie Metz, who was a lawyer in the DSS from 2017. This will relate to the Ombo and the Clayton Utz advice
Ms Metz agreed with the Jordon/Pulford legals from 2014 when she read them in 2017. Passed them on
#robodebtRC

"there was a lot happening with robodebt" so she fished the 2014 legals for Anne Pulford as she was returning from leave in January 16 2017 #RobodebtRC

Interesting she did bits and pieces on robodebt while covering for the week prior. Her take broadly matched the Pulford/Jordon legals even before she received them #RobodebtRC

Interesting email, where Pulford nods to discussions on going about refreshing the legals, discussions about "how income averaging could be supported". Just context for how those heavily qualified, largely irrelevant 2017 legals get spat out
#RobodebtRC

Metz indicates she wasn't aware of the extent to which averaging was being used, didn't know it was the sole basis #RobodebtRC

In 2018 her knowledge advances to knowing about the use of averaging. #RobodebtRC

Metz indicates that she had no involvement in the decision not finalise the catastrophic Clayton Utz legals.
"What steps did you take to provide the advice to the Chief Counsel?"
Says she discussed stuff daily, but has no record
"high likely we discussed" #RobodebtRC

She says she discussed robodebt with the Chief Counsel fairly frequently.
She expressed concerns about legality. #RobodebtRC Greggery querying why not forwarding or in writing

She is falling back on the practice, lawyers give advice to the area. The area is meant to escalate. So she is valving off to Essex/Kemp and co #RobodebtRC

So really, "if legal advice is provided, it is considered by those public servants who have seen it".
Greggery comes back to who paid the invoice for legals. Metz indicated it was someone in legal. #RobodebtRC

Metz 'there was some caution around advice that was provided...later in my time as head of the legal branch...there were a number of matters at least 2 where I became aware the Secretary was very unhappy with the legal advice that had been provided"
Caused caution #RobodebtRC

The two occasions were non-robodebt matters:
1. disability and carers brief, EL1 lawyer, related degree of control secretary had on involvement in NDIA matters. defended its independence. (ho-ho-ho)
Campbell reported v unhappy #robodebtRC

2nd advice: related to national redress scheme. External opinion initially, she strongly disgreed with it, and looked for advice from SC. Which she thought overruled the first advice.
Campbell: told me she didn't believe Senior counsel opinion and preferred the 1st
#RobodebtRC

I wish we could mass download their vault and supermarket sweep ALL their legals, but we've got 10 minutes left in this royal commission, and then it's back to:

"that AAT turns on its facts", "advice to government", FOI redactions #RobodebtRC

At last Greggery launches one of my favourite exhibits, I've been DM-ing this things for ages. Didn't think they were going to launch it! turning my head sideways to read actual handwriting. I love royal commissions
#RobodebtRC

26 March 2019....do you recall that meeting...

This'll be good
#RobodebtRC

"There was no discussion of the Masterton litigation at that meeting"
She wanted to discuss who was managing litigation inDSS. She framed it as litigation generally...

Metz assumed "it was the lack of confidence in the way Masterton was being managed" #robodebtRC

This isn't direct, it's just about the ambience that is cast by certain leadership styles. #RobodebtRC
Metz saying Campbell 'felt exposed by the Masterton litigation"

Oh dear. Ms Metz was seconded away from Legal. A deputy secretary cold arrived and offered her a random role. #RobodebtRC Ms Metz's hands indicate great emotion

The emotion is now visible. "I'd worked my entire career to get there"...each year SES officers were asked to put foward a career development plan...hers requested to stay #RobodebtRC

Picking up a child from daycare. Most useful thing to say is Holmes reminder that our stuff is flawed. Often for me there were emotions being felt. Care about the issue. Form your own views, and remember the people. #RobodebtRC