Thread by @HowardP68350299

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THREAD ANCIENT MYTHOLOGY MISCELLANEA
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Atlantis inside the Mediterranean
Hercules travels
Ulysses travels
Phoenician secrets
Tartessos alternative hypothesis

In 1925 the french researcher Ferreol Butavand placed Plato's Atlantis beneath the waters between Sicily and Tunisia.
Some scholars, as Robert Graves, also have placed that Atlantis in the ancient libyan lands surrounding ancient Lake Tritonis (Tunisia).

In Greek classical period (around 600-100 BC) the Pillars of Hercules were well stablished as being the Strait of Gibraltar.
But in Greek bronze age (1700-1100 BC) that feature was not the same place.
The labours of Hercules were displaced to fit the new geographical knowledge.

Plato's account spreaded from and egyptian priest from Sais.
He told about how mankind rises and falls over and over along the times, victim of heavenly fires and watery catastrophes.
Today we see remains of different lost civilizations.
Plato's Atlantis must be one of them.

Ancient catastrophes list (dates aprox):
- 9700 BC (End of the Ice Age)
- 6000 BC (Etna landslide tsunami, Black Sea deluge)
- 3100 BC (Comet Encke, Noah's Flood)
- 2200 BC (Comet Hale-Bopp global climate crisis)
- 1600 BC (Volcano Thera, Exodus story)
- 1000 BC (Volcano Hekla)

Around 600 BC Pharaoh Necho II commissioned a naval phoenician expedition wich circumnavegated Africa in 3 years.
Few years later Solon visited Sais, where the memory of the huge Atlantic Ocean was still a hot topic.
Possible explanation for its appearance in the Atlantis story.

The archaic name for the Pillar of Hercules was the Pillars of Briareus.
Briareus appeared in the most archaic myths, related to Cronos and the island Ogygia (Calypso island of the Odyssey and possibly the maltese island of Gozo).
The poet Pindar also pointed to Sicily-Libya.

Maps depicting 10.000 BC geography usually focus in dry land geography or coast sea level geography.
It is very hard to find those who combine both features.
And they are key.

The archaic Titans were imprisoned under Tartarus, at the end of the Titanomachy war.
The later Giants, who fought the Gigantomachy war against the Olympians, were also associated with volcanoes.
Eruptions between Vesuvius and Etna must have been partial source in many myths.

Atlantis appears not only in Plato's story, but in many ancient accounts (Diodorus Siculus) and extensively in the huge greek mythology universe:
The archaic myths around Athena and Poseidon, the Argonautica (Jason in Lake Tritonis), the traditional libyan 4 horse chariot.

In 2015 a sunken monolith was found in Pantelleria Bank, possibly Atlantean.
If we consider Atlantis as the lands between Sicily and Tunisia, the islands of Malta are to be part of that lost civilization.
Those misterious megalithic temples could be what remains of Atlantis.

Some current researchers have also considered this location.
Anton Mifsud since 2000 has published several works exploring the role of Malta in Plato's Atlantis.
Massimo Rapisarda has authored several papers researching for the truth behind the myth, focusing his work in Sicily.

Plutarch enigmatic "De Facie" talks about the Island of Cronus, related to Briareus and Ogygia.
The cartographer Ortelius depicts the Sea of Cronus as the Adriatic.
One unsolved mistery is why he places Ogygia in southern Italy, when there is no island there and never has been.

Giorgio Grognet, around 1840, also placed Atlantis between Sicily, Tunisia and Malta. The lack of accurate bathymetry in those days made his map quite fictional though.
Paul Borchardt, in 1927, also pointed Tunisia, focusing in the surroundings of ancient Lake Tritonis.

The megalithic culture that flourished in Malta was present in the Balearic Islands too.
1- Ggantija temple, Gozo (Malta)
2- Torre Galmes (Menorca)
3- Naveta des Tudons (Menorca)
4- Talati de Dalt (Menorca)

The mythical amazons are usually portrayed according the scythian mounted archer tradition, and their land is placed in Asia.
Older traditions speak about the amazons who inhabited Libya and their wars with the atlanteans.
Amazigh is the indigenous name of berber people.

Libya is also the place where Athena slains the Gorgon, whose reptilian skin becomes the Aegis.
Perseus myth also is related to the libyan gorgons, the beheading of Medusa and king Atlas.

Agrigento, greek Akragas, in southern Sicily.
A rich history and amazing archeology, though devastated by ancient wars.
One of the ruined temples used columns in the shape of the titan Atlas.

The Garden of the Hesperides and titan Atlas were also related to ancient Libya, whose climate was much greener in those days.
Queen Basilea, sister of Atlas, is related to Hyperion and Helios, and so to Sicily, named Thrinacia in the Odyssey and Erytheia in the Hercules myth.

Other researchers also pointing to Tunisia-Sicily as the location for Plato's Atlantis:
André Capart (1986), Axel Hausman (2005), Charles Rogers (2018), Francesco Costarella (2019) and specially Hong-Quan Zhang (2019) whose work we will detail in next post.

Hong-Quan Zhang has studied the ancient rivers from North Africa, publishing "Revive Eden, Green Sahara Now" in 2019.
His conclusion also points to ancient Lake Tritonis (today Chott el Djerid) as the location of Plato's Atlantis.

Atlas and Prometheus were brothers, one located in Libya, the other in the Caucasus.
The same bilocation, between Caucasus and Libya, happens with the amazons and the Garden of the Hesperides (Garden of Eden).
Old myths could have mixed with new ones along the centuries.

Reginald Fessenden "The Deluged Civilization of the Caucasus Isthmus" (1923) explores the possible connection between the greek myth of Atlantis and the biblical stories of Creation of Mankind, Garden of Eden and Noah's Flood.

Armenia and Anatolia regions offer very old mystical stories and archeological remains.
Göbekli Tepe (9500 BC)
Çatalhöyük (7500 BC)
Derinkuyu underground city
Nimrod (Mt. Nemrut, Edessa Nimrod pillars)
Edessa (Ur of the chaldeans, Abraham birthplace)
Harran (Abraham story)

Mt. Ararat is considered today as Noah's Ark resting place after the flood.
But older traditions identify that place as Qardu, the region of Corduene (aka Gordyene), south of lake Van, at Mt. Judi (aka Mt. Cudi).
The peculiar Mt. Ilandag, in Nakhchivag, also appeals to the myth.

Thanks @SakraNarasimha for the excerpts of "Venus: The Late-arriving planet"
Could you answer here so I can have all the information connected?

HESIOD Five Ages of Man
- Golden : Rule of Cronus (Ends at Titanomachy War catastrophe)
- Silver : Matriarchal neolithic (Malta, Çatal Höyük)
- Bronze : Begins 3100 BC (Comet catastrophe)
- Heroic : Begins 1600 BC (Thera eruption)
- Iron : Begins 1000 BC (Dorian invasion)

TITANOMACHY
Mythical war between Cronus and Zeus.
Cronus armies were commanded by titan Atlas.
What is the historic catastrophe from wich the myth was born?
Huge volcanic and seismic activity happened between 6.200 BC and 5.600 BC

GIGANTOMACHY
Athena buried Enceladus under volcano Etna in Sicily.
The Strait of Messina, where mythical Scylla and Charybdis endangered ancient seafarers (Ulysses).
Virgil's Aeneid says that in archaic times Sicily and Italy were not separated, before a catastrophe occurred.

In Plato's account, the egyptian priest tells Solon that Atlantis was older than the Phaeton and Deucalion myths known by the greeks.
Deucalion could be related to comet impact catastrophe (3.100 BC) or to Thera tsunami (1.600 BC), and Phaeton to the 4.2 Kyear event (see Sodom).

ATLANTIS CHRONOLOGY SCENARIOS
A - 9.600 BC (End of Ice Age)
B - 6.000 BC / 5.600 BC (Etna landslide, Crater Lake volcano, Black Sea Deluge)
C - 3.400 BC / 3.100 BC (Krishna, Noah, Deucalion 1st)
D - 2.200 BC (Phaeton 4.2 Kyear event)
E - 1.600 BC (Thera eruption, Deucalion 2nd)

DECODING MYTHS
Euhemerism is an approach to myth interpretation, presuming real historical events to be the origin.
The older the myth, the more fantastic could it look.
Robert Graves encyclopedic masterpiece "The Greek Myths" offers insight in their mystical and ritual aspect.

DECODING GENEALOGIES
Ancient historical figures used to link their lineage to the Gods.
Alexander the Great was considered son of Zeus-Ammon.
Julius Caesar was descendant of Venus.
In Dardanus genealogy, he is son of Zeus and grandson of Atlas. It could mean not literal kinship.

Titan Atlas is usually portrayed holding the celestial spheres.
Legend tells he was the first to master the science of astrology (Diodorus Siculus Historical Library B.III, Virgil's Aeneid).
Once again, connection between Atlas and the East.
Chaldeans were the first astrologers.

Atlantis in Tunisia-Sicily evokes a resemblance with the much later phoenician empire around Carthage.
Phoenicians were related to chaldeans and sumerians.
Who were the first seafarers of western Mediterranean?
Proto-phoenicians 3.300-2.200 BC could have been the atlanteans.

Some answers here.

The main thread continues here.

Thread continues here.

The Chalcolithic (Copper Age) has not delivered many archeological sites.
One of the few is Nahal Mishmar, west of the Dead Sea, dated around 4.000 BC.
There was navigation and trade with Cyprus, but almost nothing is known about what kind of ships existed in those days.

In Roman Empire times the North Africa provinces (Mauretania, Africa and Cyrenaica) were rich and densely populated.
Those regions show a misterious lack of archeological remains from the Bronze Age or Chalcolithic periods, maybe due to little research or to unkown factors.

Neolithic culture expanded to Europe from the East.
Danube river region was the main gateway to Central Europe.
We can see also traces of a southern maritime route, along Malta, Sardinia, Balears and southern Spain.
Question arises about wich route reached Portugal and Ireland.

Mzoura Cromlech is located north of phoenician Lixus, in Morocco.
Spanish archeological surveys from 1935 were interrupted by the Civil War.
The site was severely vandalized afterwards.
Academic dating around 4th century BC is perplexing.
It looks from the Megalithic period.

The mythical Garden of the Hesperides may have been located in Libya, in the Cyrenaica region.
The region was much greener in ancient times, and lush lakes covered the area, linking it to western Egypt.
Greek colonies and phoenician traditions also are related to the area.

Cyrene, as a greek colony, and later as a roman territory, was a rich market for silphium fruits, a plant now extinct and maybe used as an aphrodisiac.
Could it be related to the Apples of the Hesperides myth?
Cyrene coins show silphium shaped in the now common "heart icon".

Diodorus Siculus (Historical Library IV, 85) also narrates the formation of the Strait of Messina, by the hands of the giant Orion.
Tectonic plates collide in that region. Earthquakes and volcanic eruptions gave birth to a rich mythology.
Pics:
Fontana di Orione
Orion by Poussin

Researcher Johan Ellefsen has adopted an interesting mindset in his investigations, merging Plato, greek mythology and Eastern Mediterranean traditions.

Medieval map Peutinger Table (Tabula Peutingeriana) is a compilation of road itineraries from the Roman Empire, with geographic proportions very distorted.
The region of Cyrenaica shows a coastal spiral today disappeared, located near another Tritonis Lake.

Phoenician writer Sanchuniathon, who lived around 1300 BC, is one of the oldest sources on mediterranean history.
His work only survived through Philo of Byblos accounts, from around 100 AD.
Phoenician and greek gods are merged in same mythology, appearing also king-titan Atlas.

Could not find anything similar in google maps.
Following the route from Daryanah (Hadrianopolis) to Tocra (Tauchira) there are the remains of Lake Bersis, now dried out, but still appearing in a map from 1960.
Shape does not fit though.

Maps showing the Garden of Hesperides also name the Hills of Hercules, or Herculi Tumuli (Tomb).
The meaning of Syrtes is quicksand or swamp, as shown in a map of Libya from 1724.
Plato's Timaeus description of the war between Atlantis and Athens tells how the sea became muddy.

The shoals of mud caused by the subsidence of Atlantis could be related to soil liquefaction.
Atlantis destruction from earthquakes, tsunamis and sea level rising would be completed by that quicksand effect.

THE SYRTES
Dangerous muddy sandbanks in the coast of Libya avoided by ancient sailors.
See Polybius (1, 39).
The shoals of Great Syrtis and Minor Syrtis are marked in this map from 1731.
Old maps also locate an "Hercules Tower" and a second Tritonis lake south-west Cyrenaica.

OzGeology youtube channel, in a series of videos around october 2023, presented evidence of mega-tsunamis in central Mediterranean, clearly visible in the deserts of Libya and Tunisia as chevron formations.
Hypothesis for the origin could be asteroid impacts or Etna landslide.

DECODING OCEANUS
Why greek mythology has so many Sea Gods?
They seem to be associated to ancient kings of maritime empires.
Oceanus was related to the Black Sea, but was displaced to cover central Mediterranean, around Sicily.
Maybe remembrance of eastern migrations to Libya.

"Oh Solon, Solon... You Hellenes are never anything but children, and there is not an old man among you."
These are the words used by the egyptian priest who told the Atlantis story to Solon, as they appear in Plato's dialogue Timaeus.
But was Greece only inhabited by Hellenes?

There was another race in Greece beside the Hellenes.
One whose refined culture still preserved the distant memories of the most ancient days of old.
One who could finally solve the mistery of Atlantis.
Behold,
ENTER THE CADMEANS.

Origin of the name AFRICA.
Romans first used it for the tunisian region around Carthage.
The etymology is unclear though.
Egyptians called LIBYANS to all the different tribes west of the Nile river, but how far this toponymy extend?
In later periods it included all North Africa.

In the Balearic Islands, at Genovesa Cave in south-east Mallorca, a submerged paved bridge has been dated to around 3.600 BC.
Sea level rise or local land subsidence must have occurred since then.

Didodorus Siculus (B. III, 54) narrates how the Amazons invaded the libyan lands inhabited by Atlanteans, survivors of the archaic capital destruction.
Cerne or Kerne is mentioned, and its location could be near ancient Utica, in lands transformed by alluvial sedimentation.

The hideous GORGONS.
Said to be daughters of Ceto and Phorcys (King of Sardinia in the times of Atlantis).
Gorgon depictions, related to Athena, flourished all around Greek culture.
Pictures:
Corfu and Gela (Sicily) - Phaeacians.
Leptis Magna (Roman period) - Related to Perseus.

Plato's Timaeus chronology for Atlantis.
- Solon visit to Sais, 600 BC.
Displaying solar / moon calendars.
- Athens foundation, 9.600 BC / 3.600 BC.
- Sais foundation, 8.600 BC / 3.250 BC.
First recorded use of shield-spear phalanx:
- Sumerian Stele of the Vultures, 2.500 BC.

This map can help to visualize how that coastline was in ancient times.

Atlantis in southern Spain has received attention by researchers, as Georgeos Diaz-Montexano.
One argument is that arabic name Al-Andalus (Andalucia) derives from Atlantis.
If so, Kaalat el-Andalous near Utica, would literally mean "Atlantis Citadel".
Historic explanation: pic.

@threadreaderapp "unroll"