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I’m a developmental biologist. I spend days dissecting mammalian reproductive systems. It’s important to be able to describe those reproductive systems.
Why not? You seemed so sure earlier, when you sneered at a thread by @lecanardnoir and promised to educate us. This is called ‘changing the goalposts’.
The first statement is not controversial. The second statement is not controversial.
You haven’t defined ‘sex’ though. Let’s go with the standard scientific definition - boring, I know, compared to the excitement of ‘cultural interpretation’ - but 1.2bn years of sexual reproduction is probably a reasonable basis to work from. Reproductive role, sperm or eggs.
A baby’s sex is observed using the frankly rather brilliant marker of external genitalia conformation (and, in males, sometimes testes are palpable). It’s around 99.98% accurate.
The clinical team does not, as standard, check chromosomes, metabolic activity or internal genitalia.
What do these have to do with whether you’ve developed ovaries or testes in utero? Again, like external genitalia, these are markers of that sex anatomy, not definitions of sex.
Which scientists? I’m a scientist and I don’t. Chromosomes (and the genetic info they carry) are a mechanism that drives sex development. They are not a definition of sex in themselves.
But scientists don’t only talk of chromosomes. This is a straw man.
Why would it be? This is biology, not maths. Biology is messy. Genetics throws curveballs. We don’t know everything.
And every atypical sex chromosome conformation you lost predicts and drives either male or female differentiation. 45, X and 47, XXX are female. 47, XXY (and other supernumerary Xs) are male. The former set had/have ovaries, not testes. The latter set have testes, not ovaries.
How can a person with fully-functioning ovaries and internal genitalia who conceived and gestated a baby be considered as anything other than female? Is she a different/third sex if we discover her to be 47, XXX?
Yeah, they’re called XX males. Because testes.
This is a failure of appropriate MALE development. This is not the ovarian-centred pathway along which a FEMALE develops.
I’m not really interested in causes - I don’t see the relevance. The question is: how, in your view, is a fertile female with PCOS not female?
I’m losing the will to dissect more clinical pathologies of sex differentiation and development. We know the blurb.
A male who has his testes removed is a male who has had his testes removed. Ditto scheme for females who have lost ovaries or whose ovaries no longer function.
So you’re describing Klinefelter’s + SRY mutation? Essentially Swyer syndrome. You were on a male differentiation pathway.
Frequency is irrelevant.
But this frequency is massively overestimated. The majority of it is accounted for by females born unambiguously female, with ovaries, usually fertile. That sound reasonable to you? Intersex?
Nah. I’m reading it because I wanted to see whether you had an ace up your sleeve, a new framing, a novel line of thought. And most of us, scientists or otherwise, CAN agree on what male and female mean. It’s you who has failed to even define sex.
I’ve got an Excel spreadsheet mapping external genitalia v karyotype in around 64k newborns. How many births do you think we need to get a reasonable handle on the numbers?
They don’t want to know what genitals you have except when they want to know what genitals you have.
And yet. We all came from a female and a male. We all know which we’d have to mate with to make a baby. The vast majority of species on the planet happily reproduce sexually, blithely ignoring that it is, apparently a human social construct.
That will do. End.
A note: This thread was written as a simple analysis of a few statements made in a blog. I’m not sure it’s asserting a coherent argument. I will perhaps write it up into a more formal blog post.
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