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#StateCaptureInquiry Former President Jacob Zuma has returned to the @StateCaptureCom for a third day. He has arrived in the hall. Proceedings begin after Chairperson Deputy Chief Justice Raymond takes his seat and greets.
#StateCaptureInquiry Advocate Paul Pretorius SC returns to Themba Maseko's role in GCIS, which was that of CEO, and indicates he intends to ask Zuma questions on Maseko's termination of employment at GCIS and transfer to a different government department.
#StateCapetureInquiry "I think it's a procedural issue," says Advocate Muzi Sikhakhane SC for Zuma, who has stood to raise a grievance over the to-and-fro of Pretorius asking Zuma about Maseko's testimony, then that of Barbara Hogan, then returning to Maseko.
#StateCaptureInquiry Zondo says his view is that it is manageable as long as Zuma is able to deal with the questions and Zondo will also have questions on topics and evidence of a certain witness discussed with Zuma earlier on.
#StateCaptureInquiry Pretorius says he has no problem with concluding questions on one version before moving on but says what he does find concerning is "the manner which control is sought over the manner in which the legal team has prepared its questions."
#StateCaptureInquiry "In the end each side needs to do what it has to do, one with a view to allowing the proceedings to proceed as smoothly as possible, however without compromising their own position," says Zondo of the @StateCaptureCom legal team and that for Zuma.
#StateCapetureInquiry Zondo has noted that the @StateCaptureCom legal team, Zuma's legal team and he as Chairperson have different jobs to do. He says, "If questions are asked to the former President that I feel are unfair, I will intervene."
#StateCaptureInquiry "Mr Zuma's legal team they will also be doing their job in protecting their client," says Zondo. He later adds, "It's important to draw attention to, in terms of the role of the legal team, to draw attention to Rule 3.2 of the Rules of the Commission."
[PARAPHRASED] #StateCaptureInquiry Pretorius refers to a bundle on former Public Enterprises Minister Hogan's evidence. He highlights her mention of "parallel processes" to deploy cadres to government positions.
#StateCaptureInquiry Pretorius says to Zuma that a matter that has concerned the commission's investigation is how senior officials are appointed to boards and state-owned enterprises (SOEs) and says Zuma may be able to help the @StateCaptureCom understand deployment.
#StateCaptureInquiry "Yes, there is a deployment committee in the ANC," says Zuma. He says, "The ANC has an interest once it has put its government, because the government would have come as a result of the ANC having been accepted by the voters."
#StateCaptureInquiry Zuma says when ministers seek people for government positions, they will ask if a suitable person within the ANC. "In other words, the interests of the ANC is to ensure that there are cadres who will implement the programmes appropriately," he says.
#StateCaptureInquiry Zuma says once this is done, it is not a foregone conclusion that a cadre will get the government job. Applications must still be processed and there is not only one person earmarked for a role.
#StateCaptureInquiry "So, it's a process that feeds into the process of the government, the one that comes from the deployment committee. In other words: it helps the government to make the candidates available, and also looks at particular people," says Zuma.
#StateCaptureInquiry Zuma says the deployment committee does not appoint, it recommends. He has also indicated in some cases the deployment committee is not involved in government appointments whatsoever.
#StateCaptureInquiry Pretorius reflects Zuma's evidence saying the deployment committee is not decisive in that appointment process, but the final decision would rest - as he understands Zuma - with the minister based on the application process and the like. Zuma confirms.
[SUMMARISED] Zuma: Ever since the deployment committee has existed normally the person who has been chairing would be the Deputy President. Why the Deputy President? Because the Deputy President is the deputy of both the party and the government.
#StateCaptureInquiry Zuma says the President does not sit on the committee, but he can make suggestions and interact with the chair. He says members of the deployment committee are appointed by the senior structures of the movement. Zondo asks if that is the NEC. Zuma confirms.
#StateCaptureInquiry "At times, because they might recommend if they know some people who are experienced in the boards," says Zuma in reply to a question on whether or not the deployment committee makes recommendations on SOE board appointments.
#StateCaptureInquiry Pretorius reads from Hogan's evidence asking how can "just a handful of people" can have the expertise, institutional knowledge and insight to make appointments to government and boards. Hogan's view is not accurate, says Zuma.
#StateCaptureInquiry "It is not a correct argument, it is just a view," says Zuma on Hogan's remarks critical of the deployment committee. Pretorius reads another Hogan comment and Zuma responds. "She is of course putting her own views on the matters," he says.
#StateCaptureInquiry Pretorius has several times clarified the motivation for asking Zuma about the deployment committee, and has recently said Zuma is in an unique position to provide insight into this, on account of Zuma's leadership of the ANC and his role in politics.
Zondo says that Zuma may be given an opportunity to comment on a view expressed by another witness, and Zuma may choose not to pass comment. Pretorius has referred to Hogan's evidence and criticised deployment which, she suggested, favoured those close the the party and factions.
#StateCaptureInquiry Zondo then notes Hogan says deployment is - in her view - for a favoured few close to the party or a faction in the party, as a reward, or as a way to ensure retirement for certain people.
#StateCaptureInquiry Zondo says, "I was just wanting to make for you move forward that it may be important to sometimes engage or give a view in regard to another view, but you might says, 'No, I don't want to comment.'"
#StateCaptureInquiry Zuma asks why should we not take people who are loyal to the party if they have skills and experience? He says, "She is expressing her view. She must be having a particular experience. Indeed, you can't have a government that is based on factions."
#StateCaptureInquriy Zuma says that those people, presumably in the deployment committee, look at candidates' capabilities and suitabilities. There is no party in the world that wins elections and forgets its supporters and its people, he adds.
[EARLIER] #StateCaptureInquiry Zuma earlier said that, "It is a general practice in the world [...] in other countries it is in the extreme. They come in with a sweeper."
Zuma: It is not true after Polokwane that people entrenched their own sides. It's not true. There is evidence of people who were on opposite sides in terms of supporting a candidate who were put in govt. I was trying to run away from this because she is expressing her own views.
#StateCaptureInquiry Zuma says, "It cannot be that [...] for an example that the deployment committee [...] you can't have almost everybody on that committee coming from a particular faction, you can't." He later adds that you can't say all of the NEC is a particular faction.
[SUMMARISED] #StateCaptureInquiry Zondo says there are ANC decisions that may have a bearing on government and this could be of importance and interest to the @StateCaptureCom because of the status of the ANC as a ruling party.
#StateCaptureInquiry "This process is very thorough," says Zuma of the deployment committee's work and the subsequent interview process. The committee sits to interview and scores candidates. The President and the Deputy President participate in these discussions, he says.
#StateCaptureInquiry Zuma says that Cabinet also discusses a candidate. "How do you succeed to take your clique with you?" he asks. Zuma's evidence is that Cabinet has debates and members take different views. "It's not just like as if you pick and walk. The process is thorough."
#StateCaptureInquiry Proceedings adjourn for tea.
#StateCaptureInquiry Proceedings have resumed. Zuma's evidence on appointments to government continues. Zondo asks if, in the case of a DG, would the committee include members of Cabinet. Zuma says, "Generally, people of the Executive."
Pretorius reads from Hogan's evidence on her receiving a memorandum in 2009 on Sipho Maseko as a candidate for Transnet CEO. She testified Maseko was a very strong black candidate for the position. Hogan also relayed to Zuma that Maseko was the board's candidate of choice.
#StateCaptureInqiry Pretorius reads from Hogan's evidence in which she states "I was shocked and disappointed when President Zuma informed" me that he was "adamant" Siyabonga Gama be appointed Group CEO of Transnet. "I don't remember myself saying these things," says Zuma.
#StateCaptureInquiry Zuma laughed after hearing Pretorius reflect Hogan's assertion that Zuma's only candidate for Transnet Group CEO, about which she says Zuma was adamant, was Gama. He says he cannot recall saying so and he could not do so if Gama was facing an inquiry.
#StateCaptureInquiry Pretorius notes Hogan's report that there was vocal support for Gama from the alliance. "You can neither admit or deny that that's what she says and that is possible," says Zondo to summarise Zuma's response. "Yes," says Zuma.
#StateCaptureInquiry Sikhakhane rises, "Chair, this is poor. This is really, really poor." He comes forward. "Chair, I must say this is poor. This witness comes here. You have Annexure D which tells you want is this process."
"I do not think it is fair to ask someone who was Head of State to explain to you what was the process of appointing people," he says. Zondo says the purpose of the questioning it to obtain Zuma's understanding of the process. "What has that got to do with fraud and corruption?"
Pretorius says SOE appointment have been the topic of some debate in the evidence of other witnesses and Zondo's task is to find out what happened, what should have happened and make recommendations. Zondo tells Zuma he may say when he does not know that he does not know.
#StateCaptureInquiry "I think there were murmurs about victimisation or whatever [...] the Gama thing was a well-known thing in the country [...] but I can't remember the details," says Zuma.
#StateCaptureInquiry "I read it but it was a report like all other reports," says Zuma on a report Hogan says she sent to Zuma on the background to the Transnet board's determination that Maseko was the ideal candidate for Group CEO.
[HAPPENING NOW] #StateCapetureInquiry "This Commission would like to make sure as far as possible it takes everybody on board, at least it should make attempts as far as possible to do so. The former President has expressed certain concerns," says Zondo.
#StateCaptureInquiry Zondo says that Zuma has expressed certain concerns as has the @StateCaptureCom legal team. "It has been decided that we should adjourn the proceedings for the day and we should not sit tomorrow," says Zondo.
[JUST IN] #StateCapetureInquiry The @StateCaptureCom will not sit on Thursday. This follows early adjournments and contested moments at hearings this week - so far - during the appearance of the former President.
#StateCaptureInquiry "I am confident that a way, that there are reasonable prospects that a way will be found," says Zondo. He says they will have to wait until Friday and tomorrow the different parties will be engaging to see how Zuma's concerns can be accommodated.
Zondo says it "should be possible" to find a way and he is confident it is possible. He invites the counsel for Zuma and the @StateCaptureCom to comment, there is no need and so he adjourns. Proceedings are set to resume on Friday but it seems somewhat precarious.
[ICYMI] The way forward for the @StateCaptureCom in terms of input from Zuma is in doubt, after Zuma raised concerns today and his advocate repeated an assertion that Zuma was being cross examined. Sikhakhane has submitted Zuma was brought to the Commission under false pretenses.
Zuma's breadth of evidence during his opening address has been contrasted by his uncertainty on certain calls, meetings and reports. That breadth is in relief compared to the brevity of his answers in the QnA, with Zuma saying he can't recall and is unsure about certain events.
It is my personal view that Advocate Vincent Maleka SC may have been a better choice for evidence leader in this case, and proceedings this week lack any indication investigators have gathered information beyond the testimony issued by the likes of Maseko, Mentor and Hogan.
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