Maya now being sworn in.
No, my views aren’t just two years old. For as long as I remember I’ve believed sex is material reality
MF - before I knew how babies were made, as a child, I didn’t understand the difference between a persons appearance & biology, but by the time of GCSE Biology & Agriculture degree I understood. 30-40 year belief...
RC moves onto violence. Asks are trans people susceptible to violence.
Pause for more supporters to squeeze into room packed with press & MF supporters.
MF - I want to look at how it was presented in the skeleton argument. It says something different.
J -you’re giving
MF - methodology says they surveyed those in homeless shelters receiving various social supppot, low income. Not representative of the wider trans community, only vulnerable communities surveyed.
J - it’s legitimate for witness nor to simply concur “that’s a high figure.”
RC - high rate of discrimination among trans community.
MF - no, there’s no control group & it’s restricted to
RC - you don’t despite that violence on basis of sexual orientation and gender identity happens
MF - no
RC confirms witness understands various gender ideology terms of art. MF knows what is meant by ‘cis’ & ‘nonbinary’ & ‘misgendering.’
MF - preferred pronouns differ from when someone uses pronoun to refer to someone’s sex.
MF - not with this document but I understand
Pause for another new supporter to be seated. We have a very full house.
RC - you refer to Goodwin case re right to privacy & to marry.
CC (Anya Palmer) - the right to change legal sex, not biological
MF - one cant change sex but can
RC - difference between legal & biological sex?
MF - yes, people who change legal sex don’t want to be outed as trans
MF - Yes.
[aside: awesome quote Maya!]
Are you certain about that?
MF - Yes.
MF - Yes.
[We observers are on tenterhooks for the gotcha now...]
J - what does the “critical” in “gender critical” mean to you?
J - “of vital importance”?
MF - gender norms are sex stereotypes (gives examples eg. girls shouldn’t get messy). Critical of social norms which treat women as subordinate to men. If you conform to gender norms that isn’t
JC - aren’t you being critical of transgenderism?
MF - I don’t use the term transgenderism. It’s critical of idea there is a right way to be a man
RC - your email to your MP says “transwomen are men.”
MF - that summarises my belief in context of my question to my mp about the GRA.
MF - in incredibly rare cases sex can’t be readily visually determined
RC - isn’t that like Biblical Genesis?
MF - I don’t believe in god.
RC - neither do I, but your view that sex is binary is the same as biblical view
RC - males have XY chromosomes females have XX
MF - production of gametes is key to determining sex
MF - reiterates that potential to create one of two gametes determines sex
RC - you’re avoiding adopting chromosomal definition because it shows a fundamental flaw in your belief
[reiterates intersex gotcha]
MF - Those conditions are
[Poor babies & parents]
MF - intersex conditions don’t show binary sex is fallacious: each of these conditions effects either males or females
RC -circles back to intersex chromosomes
MF - No. that’s not true. Doctors can still diagnose whether they’re male or female from gene expressions. Nobody produces both gamete, there is no third gamete. Sex means producing one or other
MF - no. I haven’t said it’s XX/XY which determine sex, but gamete production. There are infertile males & infertils females. They’re not lesser people, they just have pathologies if reproductive system.
MF - [stands firm again]
“There are no true hermaphrodites among humans. There are only two types of gamete therefore only two sexes in humans.”
RC - [ploughs onward, repeating]
RC - they look at the baby and that’s just guesswork isn’t it?
[Room explodes in laughter - mostly the women present. J let’s it go.]
Back at 11.50 👋🏻
RC - you’re not a biologist are you?
MF - no
RC - you recognise you can change sex via a gender recognition certificate
MF - no, that doesn’t reflect anything about changing a persons reproductive sex. The law was made to accommodate those w gender dysphoria
J - what consequences of someone changing legal sex?
MF - to do with privacy & marriage, marriage case out of date as gay marriage legal now. Privacy for someone who doesn’t want to reveal natal sex. I respect people’s pronouns
RC - tho someone can legally change sex, you wouldn’t accept it?
MF - no just that Eq Act allows single sec services eg smear test, service for female people. Bodies
Having a GRC doesn’t effect whether you need s smear test
If I walked into a changing room, found naked man, I wouldn’t worry about their pronouns but the physical reality. I’m everyday social situations I’d respect preferred pronouns
DC - refers to MF tweet (I think) re manels, would you do a manel with Pips Bunce? You compare transitioners with trans race. DC raises Rachel Dolezal. You don’t see the difference between transgender & transrace. It’s not true that they’re the same?
RC - you say you don’t see difference btwn trans race & trans gender
CC - clarity two diff twitter conversations for witness
J - let’s focus on Dolezal Twitter conversation
RC - “neither trans race nor trans gender are grounded in reality”
MF - yes
RC - Dolezal was paid to be
MF - yes. That’s how she feels -black. Yes she changed her appearance. No she didn’t become trans race for financial gain. Not all TW claim they are female.
RC - Dolezal deceived via her changed appearance, chose to cross from white privileged to
MF - she claims it’s her true self, I have no way of knowing
RC - people don’t become transgender for economic benefit
MF - I cant judge someone’s internal motivation
RC - becoming trans exposes them to difficulty
MF - yes. Males have taken
MF - that’s not what I said. Trans persons feelings are real but don’t change material reality
RC - [tries again] if I’m right your take is demeaning to trans people. It’s not your position that trans
MF - no that’s not what I said. Some people lie, some are mistaken. Eg if you lie about your sex when in hospital you put yourself in danger when giving/receiving blood. Misrepresenting your sex puts you and ors in danger.
RC - colluding in a deception
MF - yes, but that’s different from recognising social gender identity. I don’t think biological
J - re talking to a boy called Jane, you’d accept that, but if male Jane said ‘I’m a woman’ would u accept that?
MF - would depend on context. In supermarket with your kid you want interaction to be easy, not to
J - so even if Jane had a GRC you wouldn’t describe them to a child as female?
MF - that’s difficult but there is a tension. Safeguarding means children must be allowed honest qs re
J - I asked if it would make a diff if Jane had a GRC?
MF - their pronoun would make no difference to their sex
J - how would you introduce them?
MF - I wouldn’t lie to child. If child says
MF - they could say ‘it’s not your business.’ No child should be expected to accept a lie and keep the truth a secret. [gives understanding re GRC - if you got info re natal sex in an official capacity, you can’t divulge it,but if you know
J - provisions re what info you can give, general effect of legal fiction of sex change. You’d say they’d be lying to say they are a woman?
MF - if to a child of presexual developmental
J - [reiterates]
MF - distinction btwn things you skate over with kids and responsible adult in an institution. School and trans teacher would work out form of words truthful to children, respectful of trans individual
J - you return to ‘its wrong to lie to children.’ Do you consider it to be a lie?
MF - yes. At young age, if you@don’t distinguish sex & gender
J - what about visitor giving talk at school? Are they lying?
MF - yes I think it would be. Appropriate answer is evasion. Adults do that all the time with kids. So many situations where people said ‘priests/scout leaders/
swimming teachers are
J - “let’s strip our safeguarding, someone just visiting school so absolutely no safeguarding issue. Is it an untruth?”
MF - that’s a violation of their dignity isn’t it?
RC - [reiterates]
MF - when I say I am a woman, it says nothing about my gender identity. Someone else could claim I’m lying because sex & gender so thoroughly conflated now. People not lying to one another but
J - [pulls back to setting aside children’s safeguarding, which MF wasn’t alluding to]
MF - need to differentiate concepts of sex & gender. Form for this tribunal