A very interesting article, via @WalterScheidel
I've been following the Patriotic Millionaires and I think it is one of the most hopeful signs in an otherwise very gloomy situation. 1/n newyorker.com/magazine/2020/…
@WalterScheidel Some great insights in the article include the generational dynamics about which I wrote in #AgesOfDiscord
What this paragraph doesn't stress enough is that the previous generation lived through the turbulent times; the succeeding didn't.
@WalterScheidel Because the next generation of elites never experienced what it means to live in a country on the brink of revolution, they felt they could dismantled the social state that was built before WW II. 3/n
@WalterScheidel Of course now we are back in a "revolutionary situation". The article finally gets to the question of political violence in the second half. 4/n
@WalterScheidel Walter think's that a serious social breakdown is not in the cards. Here's where I disagree with you. 5/n
@WalterScheidel Yes the American state is very strong. I agree. But, first, it can be taken over by radicals, whether left-wing or (more likely) right wing. Second, we could have a Civil War II between the coasts and the "fly-over country." Third, strong states have collapsed in history. 6/n
@WalterScheidel Given the potential for enormous human misery that would follow any of those scenarios, I think it is not a great idea to tell the elites that everything will be OK. 7/n
@WalterScheidel Final thought: the article, and most of current commentary focuses on popular immiseration. But historically social breakdowns were a result of immiseration and intraelite competition and conflict acting together. 8/n peterturchin.com/cliodynamica/d…
@WalterScheidel If you are rich, worry not about peasants with pitchforks; worry about commissars in black leather coats with Mauser pistols at their side. 9/9 *end*
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@BretDevereaux In his response to @Noahpinion Bret takes a swipe in passing at my work. It is not clear to what he refers ("effort to find support for this hypothesis in the ancient world"), as my my main effort for empirically testing this hypotheses has centered on the US from 1789 to ...
@BretDevereaux@Noahpinion ... the present. With a huge emphasis on the contemporary America (from the 1970s on). Perhaps America in the late 20 century is an ancient country? The main source is Ages of Discord peterturchin.com/ages-of-discor…
As I said, I really enjoyed this piece. Noah shows data for a bunch of new "proxies", variables that can help us with quantifying elite overproduction. Some reactions follow.
.@Noahpinion First, I disagree with the (apparent) criticism that my definition of elite overproduction focuses only on the supply -- it is explicitly the issue of balance of supply/demand. In #AgesOfDiscord I always consider both sides of the equation.
@Noahpinion Elite overproduction is always a relative thing, not an absolute one. The whole point is to understand what process generates frustrated elite aspirants, and how their numbers blow up, when supply starts to massively overwhelm demand.
2. The author writes, “Peter Turchin and his collaborators have championed a new approach in which history as a discipline will be replaced by cliodynamics”. This is an outrageous falsehood. The relationship between cliodynamics and history is a mutualistic symbiosis.
1. Thanks for this calculation! The starting point is very interesting, but I am not sure the answer is right (there seem to be a few extra orders of magnitude...)
3. 100 k people burn 200 k ha, so we have 2 ha burned per person.
4. Taking median standing crop biomass in grasslands as 300 g per sq.m (it varies, dry steppe is less, moist savanna is more, but let's for the order of magnitude).
5. That works out to 6,000 kg of dry matter (mostly cellulose) per capita burned.
6. Now let's compare it with my previous estimate of firewood burned by a Russian household, 3,000 kg. In per capita terms, 600 - 750 kg.
3. I now have three contenders, one that was a surprise for me, two that I had in mind when asked the question.
4. Let's start with the surprising one: hinter-gatherers burning grass-lands or brush-lands to create habitat suitable for their life-styles.
5. After initial resistance, I decided that this is a valid entry into the race. These people used energy to modify environment to suit their needs. Is that different from people using muscle power to cut forests for agriculture, or a modern farmer using bulldozers to clear land?