Thread by @SolTaiyang

Mengzi (孟子 pronounced “Mung-za”), aka Mencius, was born 372 BC, 180 years after Confucius. What was his point, and contribution to Confucianism? After going thru his writings for the last month here are my thoughts…
#Mengzi #Mencius #Confucianism

2/ On the problem of ordering society, to avoid barbarism and collapses—Confucius pioneered the pragmatic system of 1) regular social rituals with proper form (禮), and 2) cultivation of one's humanity (仁). Confucius was mostly silent on humans’ core nature (important).

3/ So what did Mengzi add to Confucianism which was not already there? Not so much, yet something…

Mengzi made one big claim; that human nature is originally “good.” He also provided evidence for this claim. In this way he's seen as an idealist, yet orthodox, Confucianist.

4/ He believed that people are born fairly similar, that they are perfectible, and it is the nourishment and cultivation which makes them different. “Therefore with proper nourishment and care, everything grows, whereas without proper nourishment and care, everything decays.“

5/ As proof of our innate knowledge of human “goodness” Mengzi cited what he called the Four Beginnings: 1) a feeling of commiseration, 2) shame and dislike, 3) deference and compliance, and 4) right and wrong.

6/ Examples—normal people do not like to see blood and thus recoil in disgust, parents feel an instinct to protect their children, people naturally feel shame and try to hide what they did thus they must naturally know they did wrong?

7/ What Mengzi was actually on to is that evolutionary biology programmed us over time for functionality. These traits nature found useful, for our survival. Morality is extremely subjective, and fluid, but here we find biological beginnings (anchors) which can be built upon.

8/ Mengzi also noted that if you have two seeds, one excellent and one crap, if you fail to water the excellent seed the crappy one ends up being a tastier dinner.

Therefore, with this and his prior observation on innate qualities—we are born "good" *but* it must be cultivated.

9/ Criticism: Mengzi was “wrong, but right,” or perhaps strategically wrong?

His entire add-philosophy is built upon an unnecessary question. Nature does not see things as “good,” and even if it did, he cherry picked and ignored the "bad."

10/ As Laozi correctly understood, nature is indifferent.

A frog is not "good" or "bad" because it kills flies, it just does. The most that can ever be said, while remaining grounded in natural law, is that it is functional. To survive, is "good."

Warped question, Mencius!!

11/ Furthermore, across an evolutionary timeline it is impossible to know "good," until it's too late.

Maybe Paleolithic tribes killing each other leveled-up our genetic intelligence, maybe Neolithic civilization decreased it (brain size has been shrinking for 10K yrs)?

12/ The way to avoid pointless linguistic games not grounded in a corresponding reality, as Western philosophers are so fond of, is to never start. This is the beginning of delusion, my gripe with Mengzi.

And this is the brilliance of Confucius’ silence.

13/ But it gets worse because then he cherry picks "good' parts of our evolution. Why doesn't he mention tribalism (which manifests as racism and war)?

Yeah he told white lies, but these could be used to cultivate better people thru their own work and hope. Wrong, but useful?

14/ Criticism aside, the fact is Mengzi's thinkings worked.

As with evolutionary biology, in the evolution of applied philosophy—nature tests our ideas across time, and only the functional ideas survive. It decides.

And Mengzi's thinkings survived, thus they are "good."

15/ Today, 2400 years later, 50 million Koreans know the name of Mengzi (맹자).

Although they know him no better than Americans know Columbus, every member of society follows his teachings day to day. Neo-Confucianists used his thinkings to build up their applied philosophy.

16/ Perhaps there is also a "feels good" aspect to his selectively-true theories, which makes them work?

How are you going to get members into your club if it feels bad? Christianity did that "you're a sinner," but that's complicated and another conversation.

17/ The belief that humanity is originally good ends up persisting thru most of Chinese history, along with a belief in natural law (which may not agree).

Mengzi is perhaps responsible for Eastern philosophy being more positive on human nature, while Western is more negative.

18/ Anyhow, my personal feeling is that Mungzi is not a deep ungraspable mind (Laozi), not a broad mind (Kongzi), is someone obsessed with irrelevant tangents, and a bit of a status chaser wanna-be...but he keeps Confucianism alive and makes it attractive. In the end it works.

Tagging the Eastern philosophy crew, these are all follows if you like this topic: @TheTrueTankMan @Hubei_Peasant @SenzoTeoh @HumanLevelJen @Silmarillion88 @BryanVanNorden @kmichaelwilson @MichaelMjfm @ntd1949