Important discussion! What behaviour traits can help people recognise a toxic PI before they get in too deep? And how can people stuck with an abusive PI navigate this?
If have any comments/stories that you would like to voice anonymously please DM us & we will post it for you!
If have any comments/stories that you would like to voice anonymously please DM us & we will post it for you!
Toxic behaviour can come in many forms. It can include microagressions or constant insensitive 'joking' but can also be much more serious such as harassment in awful cases. NONE OF IT is acceptable! The 'someone has it worse' attitude only lets abusuers continue.
In saying that, always ensure your own safety & mental health. It can be difficult to recognise toxic patterns & escalating behaviour. Microagressions/gaslighting are often excused away. Yes we are encouraging people to call out toxic behaviour but not to their own detriment.
We will as a community not tolerate ANY victim blaming or 'they should have spoken out earlier'. We want to get rid of the stigma but understanding is also needed. Not everyone is in the position where they can call out things, especially when talking about student/PI issues.
In regards to gaslighting/ smaller abusive behaviour, some people don't notice it at first. I know that myself growing up in an environment where my parents were gaslighting/ treating me like s**t, I don't also recognise it. it is easy to fall back into the just accept it mode.
Specifically in academia there is such a culture of you nearly need to be self-abusive. Work all your waking hours, little sleep, no weekends/holidays, more papers/presentations/grants/outreach, do more. What do you mean you haven't written a book in your spare time?
@xiaofei_lin sorry we forgot to tag you in these!
Anonymous story - I remember my supervisor telling me that we will work ridiculously long hours, should expect to be overwork and that I would be making $ below the poverty line. I oversaw all of this because I was so excited about my project and the opportunity...
Great anonymous advice - Get a list of recent students and check for publications with them as a first author. If you can’t find publications from their students as first author, it might mean they aren’t doing a good job supporting their students.
Story behind the advice- Advisor *talked* about helping students publish but no undergrads did & grads either never published or it was published without them as first author after they graduated. No student first author while working in his lab is a red flag I wish I had noticed
Anon-PI was always really nice/supportive for first 2/3 years then changed once you felt you were in too deep to leave🚩I wish I’d noticed-a defending students spouse HATED the PI. If your spouse hates your boss its cause they’ve seen/heard about the abuse. Subtle but significant
Anon - some 'happy' appearing students might be covering for their advisors by hiding trauma/abusive power dynamics. PI's has a lot of power over students & their careers & will for as long as they need a reference.
Anon continued - My PI is scary and it is not safe for me publicly admit to the abuse. I think it's important to acknowledge that grad student abuse is more prevalent than it seems, there are successful students who might seem happy but are faking to keep the toxic advisor happy.
PhD Balance thoughts - Honestly all of these stories/advice is heartbreaking but still needs to be said. Keep talking about it and sharing your stories even if it is anonymously and always, if you are in a position to, try and warn people about toxic people.
If anyone else would like to share, we will still post anonymously. We understand that people are in a situation where they cannot talk about publically but we want to get rid of stigma not only around mental health but also other unacceptable things that occur in academia.
Anon -Be wary of white men saying women/minorities are 'difficult' because during my undergrad there was an ass. professor who was slandered by many faculty/white male students because she was trying to make the department more inclusive/not accepting bigotry.
Anon cont. - Not saying minorities can't be abusers just seen this situation in a couple of different areas but never this widespread.
Anon story - Big 🚩 now that I’ve dealt with this myself, is an uninvolved PI. By uninvolved, I mean the day2day workings of the lab. My PI doesn't check in/resolve conflicts/decide authorship, even allow people to steal others’ projects.
Anon story contd. - A new postdoc once threatened to violently attack me because my multi-year project was similar to the one he wanted to take on. Mine was almost done, he had just started. My PI didn’t do anything about it because both projects would produce publications.
Anon story - Just had an interview, the PI seemed nice prior to it - answered emails fast, arranged an online meeting with a PhD student from same group but a different team. But during the interview, he won't let me present the presentation he asked me to prepare.
Anon cond. - He said that he already knew everything in it and that felt like a 🚩. For the rest of the conversation he kept asking things I couldn't answer, blamed me for not reading his papers ahead but everything escalated quickly & I am grateful I ended up not being selected
Anon story-I joined a relatively new lab & watched four people join & quit in the few years I have been here. I’m used to it but it’s still hard to watch it continuously happen, especially when good people end up getting the worst brought out in them from the stress they’re under
Anon- Everyone is aware of the prevalence of grad student abuse & universities should provide resources to ALL incoming graduate students, regardless of area, that includes information about how to detect gaslighting, what behaviors are explicitly inappropriate.
Anon cond. -how to balance workload, the importance of doing hobbies, work/life balance Who to contact in the case of an issue - the whole process, transparently. Who do you ask for help? what happens when you do? Grad student association & then the dept chair? dept chair & HR?
Anon story - I was endlessly gaslit to believe all errors/ difficulties were my fault while all accomplishments were my advisor’s, no matter what. I felt stuck in a small world & didn’t want to ruin my career by causing problems with this advisor.
Cond. - Everyone thought he was so great & during a discussion about issues facing minorities in academia, another PI, explicitly told me how lucky I must be to work with him since he doesn’t do anything wrong. Things went all to hell when I tried to address things with him.
Anon advice - Notice how the PI talks about their students’ accomplishments. Is it easy for them to credit/highlight their students’ work? Or do they make a point to claim some/all the credit?
Also, ask how potential issues are handled. Make it an all-inclusive question.
Also, ask how potential issues are handled. Make it an all-inclusive question.
Anon story - My MS PI seemed very nice, he promised so many things during my interview. His PhD student even said good things. At first he was an absentee advisor but then he wasn’t. He started to get mad at me for no reason, I caught him in lies and even professional misconduct.
Cond. - By the end of the first year I had finally met my true PI - a high functioning sociopath. He would walk in my office every day & scream at me how I was worthless. If someone else came by he would instantly be all smiles. He would break things near me, threaten to hurt me
Cond. - By the end of 2 years I was having daily panic attacks and severe insomnia. The PhD student that had been so happy during the interview wasn’t much better. When I asked why he lied he said because he needed someone else to take the burden..
Cond. - I finally turned my PI into the school (couldn’t go to the department he was the head). He was going to block my graduation because I had dared to turn his offer of a PhD down.
Cond -This was because I was a good victim. I did everything “right” I didn’t fight, I didn’t tell, I worked so hard he wanted to keep me for a PhD. I should not have stayed quiet for so long. Fear makes you do stupid things. So don’t do what I did, report abuse of any kind early
Cond. - To end on a happier note. I am now in my dream position for my PhD with a PI that is like a second father to me. The road to recovery is long and I’m still on it. But you don’t have to be, speak up.
Anon story - I dodged a toxic PI. I rotated in a lab where I loved the research, and the PI was very encouraging & invested in my project during my time there. But every grad student in his lab had a clear disdain for him.
Cond - I’m very glad I chose another lab with a fantastic PI, she was great & supportive especially when I had several health issues during my PhD. Interact with others in the lab. A PI wants a new student may put up a front, but their current students will know the real them.
Anon - Tips for recognising abusive PI's
1. They are usually very convincing that they are the best fit.
2. Carefully they make sure that you are not fully exposed to the entire ecosystem — what if you find a good PI and want to work under them?
1. They are usually very convincing that they are the best fit.
2. Carefully they make sure that you are not fully exposed to the entire ecosystem — what if you find a good PI and want to work under them?
Anon cond. - They are also good at giving excuses
3. Under the garb of care — cultural erasure practices are rubbed over you — like asking you to look more American and be more American
3. Under the garb of care — cultural erasure practices are rubbed over you — like asking you to look more American and be more American
Anon advice - If it's too late to change advisors, one option is to talk to the program director who’s job is to resolve conflict. Hopefully, that will help.
