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@apsmunro @ChrisAltham @RS_Eng_Brain @JaneMcLane1 @csdings @fraumierau @DrZoeHyde @DFTBubbles First, I appreciate the discussion @apsmunro. Thanks for investing so much time in this issue.
I’ll just follow up on the value/evidence/proportionality question.⬇️
@apsmunro @ChrisAltham @RS_Eng_Brain @JaneMcLane1 @csdings @fraumierau @DrZoeHyde @DFTBubbles Values are one of the necessary elements of proportionality assessments. You have to value two (or more) goods that conflict, because otherwise the course of action was clear and you’d not need to assess proportionality at all.
@apsmunro @ChrisAltham @RS_Eng_Brain @JaneMcLane1 @csdings @fraumierau @DrZoeHyde @DFTBubbles So if two goods A and B have a value to you, but there is a trade-off between them, you’ll have to decide which value is more important and how much more important. The more you value good A and the less you value good B, the more harm you will accept to good B to protect A.
@apsmunro @ChrisAltham @RS_Eng_Brain @JaneMcLane1 @csdings @fraumierau @DrZoeHyde @DFTBubbles In the current situation, I think we agree that we all value education and health as part of children’s wellbeing. But some people think education takes priority over health with regard kids while for others it’s vice versa, and health takes priority over education.
@apsmunro @ChrisAltham @RS_Eng_Brain @JaneMcLane1 @csdings @fraumierau @DrZoeHyde @DFTBubbles The first group views the harm done by school closings as disproportionate to the health benefits; the second group views the health damage from covid19 as disproportionate to the education benefits.
@apsmunro @ChrisAltham @RS_Eng_Brain @JaneMcLane1 @csdings @fraumierau @DrZoeHyde @DFTBubbles To reduce the cognitive dissonance from this conflict, we tend to downplay the harm done by not pursuing the less valued good. So I have a tendency to downplay the negative effects of school closures and you the effects from covid on children.
@apsmunro @ChrisAltham @RS_Eng_Brain @JaneMcLane1 @csdings @fraumierau @DrZoeHyde @DFTBubbles Let’s consider what happens if evidence on the health part proves us wrong. I WANT schools open. So I’ll gladly accept the evidence that it’s safe and that it’s possible to align health and education here.
@apsmunro @ChrisAltham @RS_Eng_Brain @JaneMcLane1 @csdings @fraumierau @DrZoeHyde @DFTBubbles For you though, evidence that covid harms children might mean that you have to accept that schools can’t open, at least not full-time with normal classes etc. You would have to give up on your top value. Your stakes are higher to interpret the evidence to confirm your position.
@apsmunro @ChrisAltham @RS_Eng_Brain @JaneMcLane1 @csdings @fraumierau @DrZoeHyde @DFTBubbles On the education part, I’ve heard the warnings from the education experts from the beginning, even before there was any evidence. I find this advocacy important, but I also think the damage they point to is greatly exaggerated, in particular, as it is reversible.
@apsmunro @ChrisAltham @RS_Eng_Brain @JaneMcLane1 @csdings @fraumierau @DrZoeHyde @DFTBubbles Plus – and I am aware this is anectodal evidence from my bubble – there are very different stories about children and school closures to “kids are depressed”. There are also kids who were much more relaxed and enjoyed the last months w/o the stress they usually have.
@apsmunro @ChrisAltham @RS_Eng_Brain @JaneMcLane1 @csdings @fraumierau @DrZoeHyde @DFTBubbles So to conclude: I absollutely wish you are right, because this certainly would be the optimal solution for everyone.
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