Ok for the sakes of organising things I am just gonna have one thread where I give all my White Fragility reaccs. First I'll gather the ones I have already done here, starting with...
then there was
Followed by
Also tweeted
And
Then with this we're caught up
Wait no now we're caught up
And here was a precursor take I so far stand by
Honestly my main opinion on White Fragility so far is it’s kinda boring? This relates to my initial complaint that it’s focussed on all this petty interpersonal stuff. Once again feels like the culture war is somehow about me yet doesn’t really concern me
"When a racial group's collective prejudice is backed by the power of legal authority and institutional control, it is transformed into racism".
This seems to imply a multi-racial coalition couldn't come together to racistly discriminate against an outgroup? That seems wrong.
This seems to imply a multi-racial coalition couldn't come together to racistly discriminate against an outgroup? That seems wrong.
"The system of racism begins with ideology, which refers to the big ideas that are reinforced throughout society"
<sirens wail and troops dash about as I slam the "heresy" button>
<sirens wail and troops dash about as I slam the "heresy" button>
(art credit to @OlufemiOTaiwo)
Lots of people already commented on it but this seriously is a bizarre take on the Robinson story. When I was in the US an academic I worked closely with (Teddy Seidenfeld) told me about JR. Nothing like what she says. Likewise recent film. Really odd that she got this so wrong
Ok if DiAngelo comes out against inference to the best explanation then I will have no choice but to Stan
Ok reading more - speaking as someone already inclined to think everyone secretly hates me, White Fragility is perhaps not psychologically healthy!
It’s genuinely surprising that this book manages to generate anything like the intensity of feeling that it has, either for or against. It’s just, like, alternating between anecdotes of corporate HR and basically saying “everyone’s biased in an unequal society”. Seems meh to me.
This is DiAngelo summarising the results of a psychological study that I intend to read. In the mean time just gonna say I have pretty good guesses about who’s DMs/Alt vs Main TL this would well characterise 👀
Introducing a resolution at the UN to call for a complete moratorium on middle class people of colour complaining about the horror of being mistaken for working class.
Another “this book confirms Liam’s dark suspicions” moment I assume most people in philosophy think I only got a job due to being not white. (In fact I think there’s some truth in it.) On the whole I do see how this book can appeal to non white people, it plays into insecurities.
Worried people might get the impression that the problem here is that the distribution of billionaires fails to reflect global population norms. Wealth and power shouldn’t be concentrated like this regardless of the tiny aristocracy’s demographic composition!
One thing that comes up often in this book is the rarity of cross racial friendships and claim that whites avoid them. This strongly does not match my experience. E.g. I've found plenty of white people who seem perfectly at ease making friends with me in professional philosophy.
I actually am really enjoying the chapter no the good/bad binary - basically arguing that seeing racism as a deep moral flaw of individuals is a bad idea, we shouldn't focus on appraising individuals that way. It's more of the Spinozism which is the best part f the book...
... It should in theory be attractive even to her critics, given that many don't like highly moralised charges of racism being thrown around. But there is such mistrust here that I doubt she can persuade them she means it.
That said anecdotes from corporate HR trainings are, like, the least inspiring thing possible I have no idea how people like this or why - short of some sort of perverse desire to inflict pain on the workforce - anyone would pay to undergo this.
Lmao at whoever said “I’m not racist; I’m from Canada”
Now *this* is controversial! It’s surely not gonna be satisfying to someone to point out that this claim exempts them from responsibility for something but then refuse to discuss whether it’s true - we’ve just agreed that whether they’re responsible turns on whether it’s true!
The book often appeals to what people of colour are *really* thinking when a woke white person says some cringe thing - they (we!) are always secretly thinking about how racist they are. It seems designed to play on the insecurities of particularly pathetic white people tbh.
I am absolutely convinced this does not matter, at all. I will happily use the word the DiAngelo way and also in the sense that what the white kids here experienced was racism. It doesn’t matter, it’s petty culture war opportunistic idealism that people pretend otherwise.
The book consistently appeals to idealist (in the Marxist sense) explanations for things, so I’m used to that. But even then this surprised me - anti-blackness as rooted in a traumatic sense of white guilt! It doesn’t sound plausible to me but it’s at least an interesting claim.
Robin DiAngelo Afropessimist confirmed.
One thing DiAngelo says very often indeed is "we bring our histories with us", indeed this is something she uses to explain why she is right. But she never really says what it means, and it hardly strikes me as just obvious. Frustrating.
While I think she’s right that this is self serving and overly dramatic, I do think being forced to attend something where the boss calls people in to moralise at you would be deeply annoying. I’d do my best to avoid participation too tbh.
Like, it would not tho? I don’t get why people think you can point to huge socioeconomic problems and centuries of inequality and think that “graciously receiving feedback” would constitute a revolutionary change in that situation. What’s to stop oppression with better etiquette.
OK honestly a point that kinda counts in DiAngelo's favour to my mind is that she notes that she makes fairly anodyne points then everyone gets super angry at her - and, like, the discourse en masse has basically just been that, so kinda no lies detected really.
Lmao gonna start telling reviewer 2 that telling me they disagree with me is just white fragility and maybe they should work on themselves
