Thread by @OpenPaloAlto

City Council meeting is about to start!

Our agenda briefing and tips for public comment:
openpaloalto.org/next

Streams:

zoom.us/j/362027238

Live tweet thread to follow

#pamtg

And they are live!

But no one called in for public comment on the Closed Session on appointing a City Auditor, so they are back offline again.

Council is scheduled to return at 7pm.

It's now 7pm, and Council has not returned from Closed Session yet. We will post again when they've returned, or if there is a new time estimate.

A reminder that the first thing after they're back will be your chance to comment on anything not on the agenda today.

The new estimate is 7:20pm. It may change again.

You can also see the livestream image for their latest estimate.

Council hath returned!

Tom Dubois: "I have a new kitten!"

Oral Communications now. You can call in to voice your opinions on anything not on the agenda.

zoom.us/j/362027238

🗣🗣Fiber Internet please!

🗣Who/how do we email to offer input to council meetings, for those of us that can't attend?

[Dear caller, if you see this, please check out openpaloalto.org for our own tips on reaching Council and Council members!]

🗣Council was discussing which corporate firm should take over the work of the City Auditor. This should not have been in a Closed Session under the Brown Act, and Council must release bids to the public. Also it doesn't make sense to replace a person with a firm.

Oral Communications over.

Consent Calendar (with only 1 item today) passed unanimously.

If you are curious what was passed, here was the proposal:
cityofpaloalto.org/civicax/fileba…

Highlights from City Manager Updates:
- Power grid is under strain, everyone please conserve energy during peak times.
- COVID new cases/day are stabilizing, but at a rather high level.
- Council discussing 8cantwait at 8/24 meeting.

cont'd
- The City wants to hear the stories of Black and Brown folks on race & equity thru the #PaloAltoSpeaks initiative: cityofpaloalto.org/paloaltospeaks
- USPS collection box removal postponed. Anna Eshoo will be hosting an event Tues 10am at PA Post Office downtown.

cont'd
- Rail Grade Separation Virtual Town Hall weekly on Wednesdays at 4pm from 8/19 through 9/7.
connectingpaloalto.com

Councilmember Liz Kniss: How does one get tested if it's that difficult to get tested? The public should know that the county cannot get their act together.

Councilmember Liz Kniss: I think why so many people are asking about fiber internet is because people are sitting at home and bored out of their mind. 🛋️

Councilmember Greg Tanaka: I think the Fiber issue is important. This isn’t going to be a short term thing. My two kids are online, my wife & I are online, we’re all zooming together and it’s kind of crazy.
City Attorney: Not now, this is a good item to put on a future agenda

Now:
Public Hearing on whether the owner of 2353 Webster St demolish their one-story house and build a new two-story house.
Digging deep into regulations on tree protection tonight.
Staff giving a presentation.

This project had tentatively been approved on 12/5/2019.
The director added additional conditions on 2/27/2020.
Approval of the project was on the Consent Calendar for 3/31/2020, but three council members pulled it, which brought us to reconsidering the project tonight.

Tree has a 60-ft protection zone.
New home will be farther from the tree than the current one.
During demolition: it had previously been required that hand tools be used, an arborist be present, and that the foundation closest to the tree would remain to avoid tree disruption.

17% of the roots would be removed, but City guidelines say at least 25% of the roots must be removed to count as "removal."

Project would implement all the standard procedures and regulations.

Director Hearing in Feb 27, 2020. Director of Planning & Development Services found the project in compliance with Municipal Code, new enhanced dewatering procedures were sufficient.

Staff recommends Council adopt the IR findings and approve the proposed project.

Councilmember Disclosures (since this is a "quasi-judicial" case, meaning that City Council is acting like a court of law, with an obligation to review the facts and make an objective decision on the matter at hand):

Cormack: Took a call from appellant but declined to see property (wasn’t the one discussed)
DuBois: Went to house & looked at tree. Was handed printed materials which were delivered to the council. Heard from top arborist that the tree relies on groundwater not surface water

Filseth: Visited site with the Appellant. Spoke with the Architect (also my neighbor and a vet client of my wife) & went to see the excavation at another site
Fine: Received a number of calls from Appellant. Last week received another phone call and declined to discuss further

Kniss: On mute. Talked to Appellant briefly. Took a look at tree. Lives a few blocks down from tree. Familiar with secant walls.
Kou: Drove by property to confirm which one it was. Spoke with & met with Appellant to look at tree & at property houses down to look at secant wall

Tanaka: Talked to Appellant (former councilmember). Plugged office hours - can see recorded discussion online. Biked by property & looked at basement construction 2 houses down.
Nothing discussed at office hours that was new information or information that others do not have.

Appellant Jack Morton, assisted by Keith Bennett
Not technically competent in a lot of the issues being raised.
"This is complicated; Council has never been here in 100 yrs as a City."
"Maybe there is more to life than what is called commerce."

"Nobody seems to have the value that we have in protecting our urban forest.
The tree is an outstanding specimen of its species, and one of the largest in Palo Alto.
The arborist who took care of the tree for many many years almost begs the Council to not approve the building."

"The problem is that the current house has no basement, so the tree has heretofore not had to compete with a basement for nutrients.
Staff, what do you mean by secant? What you’re talking about is an invasion."

"These folks bought the house knowing that it was an ancient oak, protected species, even though they didn’t appreciate it."
"Our position is that you should not approve this with a basement at all, even though we will reluctantly consent to it above ground."

"Keith: Jack? We’re almost out of time. Should I show my presentation on dewatering?"

Arborist says that the root system goes 20-30 feet. Groundwater ranges 7-11 feet normally.
This tree is likely going to require access to that groundwater.
Secant walls are not practical.

Applicant (owner of the home):

We love the tree and being close to nature. We have done everything to preserve the tree.
We engaged 2 arborists.
We had to change the design multiple times to accommodate our neighbor’s wishes. We did.

We were so excited to build our dream home for our family.
We were hoping it would be ready by the 2021 school year for my kids.

My neighbor keeps finding yet another thing to complain
I’ve been advised by the best professionals and got City approval twice.
For the first time, I do not feel welcome here in the community we chose. It’s not a good feeling, to not feel welcome in your own community.

Gordana Pavlovic, designer of the new home:
From the very first moment that we were smitten by the magnificence of the oak tree, we were committed to protecting it.
We only started designing the house after getting guidance from 2 arborists, soil experts, etc.

The existing house is less than 4 feet from the tree, very close.
We were advised to give it 30 feet, which we exceed in our design.
We’re determined to follow City guidelines and regulations and keep everyone informed.

Introduce some members of advisory team:

Elizabeth L - Expert in tree root science. This oak is probably not actually utilizing the groundwater, since it has spent the last decades in urban environment with compacted soils.

If the building does not get approved, the owner could actually request removal of the tree itself, because more than 50% of the current house is in the Tree Protection Zone.

The science tells us the roots are most likely damaged if at all by the foundation cut, not any basement activity.

Design has been reviewed by 4 arborists on our team, and 2 arborists on City Staff.
All 6 agree that the tree will have a better future with the *redesigned* home.

Public Comment:

🗣 (Winter Dellenbach) "I named my son Oak....There’s a 5 million dollar house built next to me, with a similar kind of tree, and that house was completed last year, and now I have to call a certified arborist in, because this tree is looking really bad."

🗣 (Karen Holman) "When interpreting the code, it’s important to consider the intention. Palo Alto holds its canopy as a point of pride; 'Tree City USA.' Staff needs your guidance on applying the Code. For this project please only allow an 8 foot basement and no dewatering."

🗣 (Walter Levison) Consulting arborist. I was just retained today by the Appellant.
City Attorney: You cannot speak actually if you represent the Appellant.

🗣 (Sandra Browman) "My house is next to the construction. The basements needs to be eliminated. Any excavation will damage the roots of the tree and will likely require dewatering. We all know on Webster St what dewatering means. It means damage to our houses."

(Sandra Browman cont'd) This construction could kill the tree, or even worse, fall on my house. You should require a bond in the case that the tree dies or is damaged.

🗣 (Trish Goity) "I have a deep-rooted connection with the property. I grew up in the home. It is a magnificent tree. I feel that the Applicants actions need to live up to her words. If she values the tree, then we cannot risk the life of this amazing 300+ year old tree."

🗣 (Sophie Chuang): "I want to speak after Anne Goess because I am here to translate her remark to Chinese."

🗣 Anne Goess
"Sister & I grew up in this property....I remember dewatering from another project, it took 6 months of dewatering into the storm drains"

(Anne Goess) for translation to "Ms Zhou": "we really appreciate that you want a nice house for your family, but we urge you not to build a basement....my father who is 82 yrs old loved this tree, please respect these elders who sold this house to you"

🗣 (Rebecca Eisenberg) "Husband and I looked at this house when it was on sale....Price was extremely low for this neighborhood, $2.4 million....All the advertising and papers couldn’t have been more clear in advising buyer that the tree could not be modified"

🗣 (Ruth Benz) "I live directly across the street from the proposed construction....When the construction was first proposed, the entire 2300 Webster block agreed that the tree should be protected. Don’t just give in to the desires of one *new* homeowner."

🗣 (Deb Goldine) "As far as all the tree scientists and all their opinions....Construction of a basement at the property next door shook my house for 8 months and nearly killed me. I raised my kids in 900 sq ft, why do you need 2800 sq ft"

🗣 (Dan Sakols) "I’m the son of Jim & Sally Sakols....I grew up on Webster St....Zhou has her list of experts, and yes, you can make the case, but this does not belong,..it’s unfair to the rest of the community to take this chance for the benefit of one family."

🗣 (Vincent De Martel) "the residents in this community care a lot about the water & the tree....We are welcoming the new family, just asking that they modify their plans a little bit to accommodate the tree and the neighborhood."

🗣 (Susan Heller) "City has a comprehensive manual for dealing with trees, this was ignored....Woke up to see a terrible piece of machinery tearing up the tree & ground. Some of the roots ended up getting severed."

🗣 (Pradipta) "We are both the children of immigrants....Often your children will have different values than you, when you are an immigrant family. Your children will have the ability to build a basement but will never have the opportunity to build a 300 year old tree.”

🗣 (Rob Levitsky) "I speak for this Oak, and for other trees"

🗣 (Curtis Smolar) "The person who bought this property knew....Why are buying into this idea of corporate socialism here....Why is this board helping those who would destroy the canopy and take this city from us....Like the giving tree but the opposite."

🗣 (Cari Templeton) "One of the things we love about Palo Alto is our canopy. It is a resource in our community, not just a plant on someone's property....No way to replace it after it's gone & the structure that will be replacing it will never live to be as old as the tree is."

Appellant:
Walter Levison (arborist) "Lowering the ground water even temporarily threatens the tree....Dewatering is not benign and can have serious consequences."

Applicant:
Elizabeth Lanham (arborist): In this compacted soil environment, groundwater is not its only resource and hasn’t been for many years....tree is a resource for the community, and the design is taking careful consideration that it will remain a resource into the future"

Lucas (engineer): "Applicant willing to find right timeframe. Late summer/early fall is good time to build - when groundwater is lower. The soil is really stiff clay - typically roots struggle to climb deep. Being strategic abt time of construction might result in no dewatering"

Applicant: "My client is very emotional and just has two sentences. These are personal attacks. I have four children and two parents that need to live in this house."

Council Comments:

Adrian Fine: "Quick reminder, this is a quasi-judicial decision, so we are adjudicating an issue not legislating. We need to uphold our laws as they are."

Filseth: will there be dewatering, if there is dewatering, will it hurt the tree, how deep is the basement?
How do we ensure the construction will actually follow the plan?
Staff: Very aware of what is going on. Public inspectors visit the site daily.

DuBois: asks about about critical root zone
Staff: Could determine surface roots. We would need to use ground penetrating radar to find deeper roots but would only go to 5-10’. We don't typically demand this of residential properties.

Staff: "This is not a heritage tree, it is a protected tree....from all of our past experience, as long as we are removing less than 25% we are able to predict the tree will be able to survive and be healthy."

Staff: "Yes we believe we are protecting the tree. Everything is going to be hand-dug, will be an onsite arborist, to ensure the proper conditions to keep the oak tree alive."

Kniss: If you looked at this, could it have not as deep a basement? Could it be 8’ instead of 11’. I heard the applicant say there was someone going to be living in the basement.
Staff: We don't usually get into who is living where.

Staff: You could discuss ceiling heights but it is only going to change it a foot or so. Maybe that helps, maybe that doesn't. Applicant has suggested doing it in the dry season to reduce impact.

Cormack: Have we ever required daily arborist visits as a condition of approval?
Staff: Our standard is monthly arborist visits.

Kou: "There is an arborist who goes to the site daily, if the damage is done, what is the purpose then? Could a single incident of damage kill the whole tree? I would like to see an arborist there the whole day during the demolition."

Kou: "I do believe that their applicant and architect are smitten by the tree and want to do something to protect it. Maybe we can look into a bond to look after the tree and its continued survival."

Tanaka: "We heard two sets of tree experts, one from the applicant and one from the appellant. I heard two different opinions. Is this science or guesswork? How do we know the objective truth about tree health?"

Tanaka: Do we know what root structures are like?
Walter P: They identified the soil at this site is clay like. This means most roots are lateral surface roots. Since there’s no air deeper, it would be anaerobic. We suspect there are very few roots on this tree that go deep.

Tanaka: Could there be a bond on the tree? Like a fine if the tree died, even though the tree dying would hurt the value of the property, which could be incentive enough.

Staff: There is a security deposit in the TTC.

Walter P: Does allow us to collect a security deposit under certain circumstances. We have never done this for a residential project, but we could. TTC would allow for $16-64k as a deposit to be put on the tree. This has only been done commercially before.

Fine: What is council’s range of authority on this?
Staff: We make sure that the project adheres to the municipal code & complies with IRG.
Fine: If we can’t make those 5 findings in the IR Guidelines, we must identify what finding we cannot make and deny the appeal.
Staff: Yes

Fine: Can the staff please go over the proposed tree protection plan?
Staff: Anytime excavation/construction is done in the Tree Protection Zone we are much more careful. We will be using hand tools & arborist supervision & parts of the foundation remain, etc.

Fine: Is this tree protection plan sufficient & warranted?
Staff: Each tree protection plan is customized to the project. This tree protection plan exceeded the min. requirements. We feel it is sufficient to prevent damage that would result in death or permanent damage to tree.

Staff: Can you expand on which elements of the tree protection plan went above and beyond the normal level?

Walter: Typically we would not require a foundation to be retained within the TPZ, but we wanted to minimize the amount of change for this one, so the applicant agreed to do that....first I've ever heard of where we do [daily] inspections. Very intensive arborist supervision"

Fine: So what you’re getting at is that this goes above and beyond and is specially tailored to protect this tree. Staff has always realized that we need to do something to protect the tree.
Walter: It’s appropriate for this tree.

Kou: Have we as a city done the ground penetrating radar?
Staff: We’ve only done ground penetrating radar on 1 project in the 8 years I have been here. To protect 8 redwoods.

DuBois: On the extent and scale of the house it is kind of out of character with the neighborhood, you know height mass scale. But what I'm hearing form the neighborhood is concerns about the tree more than the size of the house.

Filseth: If all roots are in the first 2ft, how much difference does it make whether the water table is 10ft or 14ft?
I’m hearing that dewatering is irrelevant. The only issue is the radius & how many roots are in the house footprint? So why are we talking abt dewatering at all?

Staff: The Appellant raised it as a significant issue that THEY see as a significant issue...and THEIR assessment of what might happen to the tree.
Filseth: I hear some very careful wording that I’m trying to parse
S: Well the Appellant has raised the issue

Kniss, seconded by Kou: reduce the basement depth to 8 feet including the exterior wall, 2) if applicant wishes, they can go up another two feet above the ground.

Staff: Conditions are usually part of the building permit phase.
Staff: Usually a basement does 12’ excavation, to do an 8’ total depth would mean that the building would need to come out of the ground quite a bit.
Kniss: “It’s a little sausage-y”

City Attorney: Need to take comments now from applicant.

Pavlovic (applicant designer): Honestly we are trying to process all the comments from the Council, who I’m afraid did not understand the input the professional team has brought to you for your attention.

Pavlovic (applicant designer): If we increase the height of the building, we will violate the daylight plane.

Pavlovic (applicant designer): I honestly don’t understand if both City arborists and 3 arborists believe this tree does not have roots beyond 2-4 feet due to clay content of the soil, why are we discussing the depth of the basement at this point.

Walter Levinson (appellant arborist): Cites Wikipedia on Valley Oaks regularly using groundwater.

Moving Agenda Item 3 to a future meeting.

Cormack: Substitute Motion seconded by Filseth
This is a quasi-judicial decision. I have reviewed all of the work and am comfortable saying that all of the criteria are met and that trees and basements are not part of the IRG.

Filseth: Suppose, against all probability, we find out that there are roots that go that deep. This is probably a stupid question, but could we water the tree? Go to the side of the house where there’s no construction or something - are there remedies?
Walter: Actually, yes

Tanaka: The root of the matter is, where are the roots. *Laughs at his own pun*

Filseth: It's a waste of time to have the arborist there full time.

Fine: Councilmembers Kniss and Kou, do you really need to speak to this or can we vote on the amendment?!?!?
Kou: Proposes friendly amendment to do a ground penetrating radar study.
Cormack: What is the purpose of this study?
Staff: Not a useful idea (paraphrasing)

Cormack: Rejects friendly amendment
Kou: Proposes unfriendly amendment, no second -> it fails

Cormack's motion fails.

No: Kou, Tanaka, DuBois, Kniss
Yes: Fine, Cormack, Filseth

So now we're back to the original motion.

[Earlier] Tanaka: Let me ask you this 'cause I’ve never actually heard of using radar to look at tree roots, so I think this is actually kind of an interesting idea...*grins*

[Now] Tanaka: So I want to make an amendment for ground-penetrating radar.

Staff: “These projects and evaluations are done carefully in an office environment over days. It’s concerning to make changes like this in this way without considering all the inputs from the various parties”

Staff: “I think this is intended to be a process that’s fairly light and allow neighbors to give some light input. We’re way past that already here”

Fine: The applicant has followed the rules - we should too.

Cormack: I’m not comfortable designing from a dais, especially when everything is following the rules....Some of these [IR cases] have made me feel that the process is not fair."

Kou: I actually don’t think we’re redesigning the project. We did need to address the appeal, since it was accepted by Staff.

Pavlovic (applicant designer): Thank you for all your thoughts. I’d like you to know that it took me a year to consider all the rules and requirements and go back and forth with the City

(Pavlovic, applicant designer cont'd): ...we are going to do what is best for the tree, and I cannot tell you what your suggestions will do to the project until I actually go back and look at every aspect of the code.

Kniss's motion redesigning the building's height/depth passed.

Yes: Kniss, DuBois, Kou, Tanaka
No: Fine, Filseth, Cormack

Meeting adjourned.