HOME’s Press Conference on Yani’s case beginning now.
Jaya, HOME's case manager is summarising the challenges migrant workers face in finding legal representation, bailors (who are Singaporeans or PRs) and other areas.
Janice Lim (Today): I understand that Yani has lodged a complaint against her former employers. Can I find out more about that?
Anil (Yani's lawyer): Liyani made a complaint to MOM much after she had returned to Singapore and while the case was going on, but we do not know the outcome of the investigations. We don't have a formal letter or any proper information about the outcome.
Jun Xian (Lianhe XB): Are you seeking compensation from the ex-employer or prosecutor?
Anil: We filed under 359 Section 3. If the prosecution was frivolous and vexacious, the court may order the complainant (or other parties) to pay a compensation of $10,000. We're first asking the family if they will offer an ex-gratia payment to Liyani.
Anil: If they do, it will end there. If they don't, we will file in the court and the court will decide. This does not include legal costs or expenses we've incurred.
JX: Can you say how much you're asking for? Are you already in touch?
Anil: No, we will send a letter. In terms of compensation, we're looking at a domestic worker's salary over 4 years. Her last earned was $600 per month, so including regular increments.
Anil: No, we will send a letter. In terms of compensation, we're looking at a domestic worker's salary over 4 years. Her last earned was $600 per month, so including regular increments.
Anil: Whatever amount we get, we will be grateful for.
Terry Xu (TOC): What're the expenses the legal team has incurred? Not considering loss of income, just how much you've spent to prepare the case, bring in witnesses, etc.
Terry clarifies: For disbursements, expert witnesses, etc.
Anil: The most expensive disbursement cost lying Yani's friend down from Abu Dhabi to testify and prove that some of the items Yani was alleged to have stolen were gifted by her to Yani. We had to fly her and her nursing son down, twice.
Terry: Qn for Yani, did you ever want to give up and plead guilty? What do you want to say to HOME and Anil?
Yani: No, I didn't, because I'm not guilty. I want to say thank you to HOME and my lawyer Anil.
JL (Today): Will you ask for expenses incurred over loss of income? It's a David and Goliath case, so what's your thinking around all this?
Anil: Our focus is getting Yani compensation, getting her back on track, not our expenses. My work and HOME's work is pro bono. We're hopeful that the Liews are favourable to discussing with us.
Anil: It's David and Goliath in a few ways. One is that I was up against the full strength of the AGC. I had a very limited amount of resources legally, and of course a good group of ppl supported Yani. But AGC had two DPPs and police.
Anil: Challenging to get court-related documents - we got photographs very late, only on first day of trial. We only got the famous video they recorded on the 1st day of trial. It takes a lot of time to analyse the info, not just on the face of it.
Anil: Couple this with almost 144 items she was accused of stealing, it's a huge task to look at it, analyse what was the subtext of each photo, the video. We had to look at each photo with a magnifying glass, analyse the video from diff angles.
Anil: But we couldn't do it so fast. It took us a long time to contact the manufacturer of the knife, for example, and ask her to testify for us.
Anil: One of my lawyer friends suggested looking at the video to see if the boxes were taped, this was down the line. So you need the resources to look at things in this detail. We were lucky that we figured out these things in the short time.
Anil: In terms of the family, I and my assistant were accused of harrassing the family. We made calls to the witnesses who were not part of the charges to ask if we could interview them. If they had agreed we would have informed the prosecution, of course.
Anil: But at that time we didn't have a list of witnesses. The family filed a case against us for harassment and it took a year for that to clear up. It was hanging over our head. This was unnecessary fallout, implications with LawSoc etc.
Anil: You've said they're influential and I want to leave it at that. I don't want to get too far ahead of myself to say what an influential family can do. But it was tougher because of that.
JL: Who were the ppl you called?
Anil: The Liew family driver.
Michael (CNA): Want to ask Yani, how have you been over the last 4 years? How did the case affect you? First being found guilty, then being acquitted? Are you going to stay in Singapore, find new work?
Yani: During these 4 years that I was accused of theft, I've wanted justice to prevail. And note that during these 4 years, I have not been allowed to work, so I have been stuck in SG for 4 years, not working. I don't have plans to return to SG for work.
Anil: Can I ask Yani to say a little more? One of the things I would like her to share is the difficulty relating any of this to her family. She has this huge problem and she can't go back home, work, keep mind occupied or share with family.
Yani: While this case was ongoing, I was hiding all this news from my family. I tried my best to prevent my family from knowing about this case. I especially did not want my mother to know because she's so old, I did not want her to fall sick.
Yani: I did tell my mom I had a problem with my employer, but not that it went to trial.
Jean (ST): Can you comment on the 5th charge? Are they going ahead with prosecution for this?
Anil: The 5th charge is for items found on Yani when she came back to Singapore. They are proceeding with that after the end of the appeal. They have a month to decide.
Anil: We are ready for the trial for the 5th charge, but we are hoping that the prosecution drops the charge - dismissal not amounting to acquittal (? not sure if i caught this right)
Jean (ST): Has Yani updated her mother now that the case is over?
Yani: I haven't told my mother today but I do plan to within these few days. I might let my mum and family know.
Yani (in response to qn I didn't catch): Once I am able to return to Indonesia, I will go back to my hometown and run a small business selling food. I forgive my employer. I just wish to tell them not to do the same thing to other workers.
Intl Domestic Workers Federation: What would you like to say to fellow Indonesian migrant workers who plan to work in Singapore? How would they be able to learn from Yani's case because similar things happen in HK, etc too.
Yani: I want my fellow DWs to have a strong mentality. Don't be trapped in cases similar to mine. If your employer accuses you of smth you did not do, you have to fight for your rights!
IDWF: I have qn for lawyer. Is it possible for Yani or any other domestic worker in SG to ask for compensation for the immaterial loss? She's lost more than income, also reputation, mental health during this time.
Anil: Under the Singapore CPC (criminal procedure code) we can make an application for compensation and costs. We're focusing on compensation so she can get back on her feet ASAP. There's a limit to how much we can ask for.
Anil: We will reach out to the family and ask for ex-gratia payment first. If doesn't work, then the state/court will be asked to make an order. The limit is 10k.
Rahimah (Indonesian Family Network): How did Yani manage supporting family while not working and not telling family about her problems?
Yani: I told my family I was unable to remit money and asked for their apology.
Janice: I want to confirm that the complaint to MOM is about making Yani work in multiple households, right?
Anil: That's what I understand. I did not file the report. Yani did.
Terry: Following up on the expenses, as a person who runs a law firm, if a law firm was to charge Yani for the work you've done from the beginning till now, how much would it cost at market rate?
Anil: I'll tell you what I would have charged, it's a little lower than market rate (cos diff firms charge differently). Just in terms of time, a 23-day trial would have cost $100,000. And the appeal took 3 full days - $50,000 or $30,000.
Anil: And expenses, disbursements, printing. And compensate not just me, but the people who've worked with me. So in a good sense, about $150,000 for the whole thing.
Terry: Is the prosecution appealing this judgment?
Anil: There's no real appeal but they have a month to apply for a 'criminal reference' to the court of appeal in the event that the AGC feels that there is a point of law of public interest that will assist the rest of our jurisprudence.
Anil: We'll have to wait and see what they do.
Terry: But other firms will charge higher?
Anil: Yes, I won't say which firms, but many firms would charge much more.
Me: To yani and her team, what reforms can we push for so migrant workers and other vulnerable individuals don't find themselves so marginalised in the criminal justice system?
Yani: Ppl shouldn't be able to make empty accusations. Without the complainant providing any evidence, I was arrested and considered guilty.
Jaya: We've seen many MW not being able to work while the case is in progress. If ppl are innocent until proven guilty, why can't they be allowed to work? This is a huge hindrance to MWs pursuing a case. A charge doesn't mean you're guilty.
Anil: This is v impt qn (thanks Anil!) but answer is very lengthy. Not just migrant workers, all impecunious ppl are vulnerable, and all ppl who are accused are vulnerable by definition in my POV. There are lots of issues in the way police handled this case.
Anil: And other cases of course, and in some cases the police handle well. But criminal justice system needs to be refined, thinking about condition of migrant workers who are stuck in this predicament. Unless they know of NGOs, it's so tough.
Anil: Are ppl told their rights, given information? At the bottom rung of ppl in our society, the sheer number of folks who unfortunately get accused and then conveniently plead guilty gives the state/residents the wrong impression that our system works.
Anil: It's time for MHA to look into this and understand that a high arrest or conviction rate may not be what we need to look for in terms of saying SG is safe and secure.
Desiree (HOME Case Manager): I'm working with non-domestic workers at HOME, at the helpdesk. We don't have a men's shelter. Very often when police cases come to us, they've been struggling for a very long time without the resources for upkeep.
Desiree: Some ppl have been sleeping on park benches, etc for a long time before they come to us. We have to put a human face to it. They shouldn't entirely be dependent on whether they know NGOs who can help.
D: The investigation and trial process can be much more of a punishment than the sentence itself of sitting in jail for a few weeks/months. I visit some of the workers in prison - some of them look relieved and less stressed!
D: Going through criminal proceedings as a MW is hellish and tough, even if police give you permission to work, there is stigma and they don't get jobs easily. Many don't tell their families, like Yani. They don't want to burden families.
D: They want their families to think they're having a good life here.
Me: Yani said she forgives ex-employers which is very gracious, but does she or her team feel there are other ways to put things right, beyond the acquittal and compensation?
Me: E.g. apology from family, prosecution for perversion of the course of justice/malicious prosecution, any other actions from state/society/complainants?
Anil: She's been acquitted, but that's actually different from being proven innocent. The complainant or the prosecution don't usually ever come out to say they're sorry. So the only thing we can seek is compensation.
Anil: I'm not saying this is right, this is just what we have. It's not part of the system. I don't think it's right things just end on this note. It's wrong, I won't go into how wrong it is. Family (liews) can decide otherwise but we have no legal means.
Yani: What I understand is that my former employer had made such a serious accusation against me, I wish that my employer would apologise to the public. Another message from me is that I wish the prosecution would not hide any important evidence.
Jaya: We're coming to the end. Any final comments from Yani or Anil?
Yani: I'm most grateful to Mr Anil for having assisted me for so long, and to be very patient with me. I'd like to thank HOME for assisting me until my case is settled. I want to thank Ms Stephanie Chok, Gusti, Jaya and everyone else from HOME.
Yani: I also want to thank Sister Sisi for bailing me out and allowing me to stay at the shelter for all these years.
Anil: A case like this requires a very strong accused person to deal with the issues, to remember things well, to be sharp, etc. A lot of MWs are very vulnerable, and in my experience representing MWs, representing individuals from that segment is tough.
Anil: They don't often have the will to continue because it's easier to plead guilty, serve the time and move on. The HOME team and I appreciate Yani's resolve. This often goes unmentioned.
Anil: Ppl give up and you end up saying "I told you so". From the outside you think after trial, oh you have the appeal! But to go through the same process again, it's very tough. This was supposed to be a 5 day trial, became 23 days.
Anil: Yani needs as much commendation as the judge who acquitted her. We need to address the systemic issues, and for HOME to continue this conversation after this case takes a backseat past the next few days.
Jaya: Thank you everyone, good evening!
