Jon Stokes Profile picture
13 Sep, 17 tweets, 5 min read
You: Abolish grocery stores.

Me: Maybe we could just reform them? Make them more sustainable & healthy?

You: No , get rid of them & let other institutions, like CSA, Farmers Markets, & local butchers take that work.

Me: Ok but what if I need milk on short notice?...
You: Do the reading. Here is a link dump. It took me years to understand that this is the only way. Catch up.

Me: ok, but you’re the expert here. Walk me through the steps of milk acquisition in your groceryless world. I want to understand how this works...
You: I won’t participate in bad faith thought exercises w/ someone who won’t do the work.

Me: Ok. Then I wont participate in grocery abolition.

You: Fascist! Your day’s coming.

Me: You just assigned me ~2 yrs of (uncompensated) study, then threatened me for asking questions!
I don’t know why people don’t get that “this is an emergency, so I don’t have time to explain this to you; you either fall in line or suffer the consequences” is the essence of authoritarianism.

It’s like they went to the Jack Bauer School of Social Justice.
Not really the point of this particular thread tho. I’ve asked to be walked through the nuts & bolts aftermath of a rape — from reporting, to apprehending the suspect, to justice — and cannot get even an attempt at an answer.
I have a detailed mental model of how it will go when the police are done away with, & it's some mix of The Purge & paying protection money to various armed gangs. So I think it's reasonable to ask you, a person who has "done the reading", to show me your post-police mental model
Like, in the rape example, in my brain a no-police scenario involves the victim going out of pocket to hire a PI, then hiring The Pinkertons to round him up, & then the victim's male relatives digging a 6ft hole in the woods. I can describe it b/c I saw 4 movies & 12 TV shows.
But I have never seen the no-police rape justice scenario on a screen that involves "community restorative justice" or whatever Amish or indigenous setup your Rolling Stone listicle has in it. So you're gonna have to spell that out for me in order for me to get my mind around it.
No I think it's an excellent example for precisely this reason. You can't say "they're bad at it, so we will end them & replace them with... some TBD thing that I refuse to give details of." I'm gonna have to insist you fill in TBD w/ something less bad.
Because if you can't give me a concrete, nuts-and-bolts, just-so story of the mechanics of improving something that everyone agrees the police are terrible at, then you just declined to swing at the softball pitch. Why should I imagine you can hit a fastball?
So let's start with you explaining to me a better mechanism for bringing rapists to justice, & what that looks like. That should be easy, given that the police are so bad at it. If you can't do the easy one, then I suspect you're conning me about being able to fix all the things.
This is the way it is at every turn w/ police abolitionists.

You: Police rarely solve thefts.

Me: Yeah I hear you! So what's YOUR superior plan for getting me my stuff back when somebody steals it. I'm excited for the details!

You: Privilege...do the reading... argle bargle
No disagreement! The current system is TERRIBLE! We need a better system, but we do need /a/ system. It can't be "no system at all for a while until we cobble together something else." That doesn't work for me, & I get a say in this.
I dunno about that, bro. This one tweet of yours is a pretty spectacular(albeit unintentional) summary/confirmation of my entire thread, so you may be able walk me through it on here 🤣
I bet if I asked some of the police abolitionists “how would the Fremen of Arrakis get justice for a rape victim” they’d have no problem supplying many colorful details. But ask how a post-police US would do it, well it’s too much to explain & you just have to read all the books.
Me: How would a post-police US bring a rapist to justice?

You: That question is a fascism.

Me: Ok then. How would they bring a rapist to justice in Wakanda?

You: I’ve been waiting my whole life to do a thread on this. You better sit down and get comfortable...
Since this thread has gotten a lot of attention, I wanted to go ahead & finish it w/ a concrete example of what I'm talking about. This viral FB post & the comments, plus me trying to engage around it on FB, is partly what inspired this thread. facebook.com/angryblackhoem…

• • •

Missing some Tweet in this thread? You can try to force a refresh
 

Keep Current with Jon Stokes

Jon Stokes Profile picture

Stay in touch and get notified when new unrolls are available from this author!

Read all threads

This Thread may be Removed Anytime!

PDF

Twitter may remove this content at anytime! Save it as PDF for later use!

Try unrolling a thread yourself!

how to unroll video
  1. Follow @ThreadReaderApp to mention us!

  2. From a Twitter thread mention us with a keyword "unroll"
@threadreaderapp unroll

Practice here first or read more on our help page!

More from @jonst0kes

7 Sep
People think the pandemic's lasting impact on America's gun debate will be the giant surge of new gun owners who will be newly protective of their 2A rights. I'm not so sure about this. I think if the pandemic has been a net positive for gun rights, it'll be via a different route
Sure, some subset of the people who are buying guns out of fear will want to keep them, but I think the vast majority will be glad to get rid of them when things normalize.

Most won't go from "I wish nobody had guns" => "Screw it, I'm getting one, too" => "Gun rights FTW!!"
Instead, they'll do something like "I wish nobody had guns" => "Screw it, I'm getting one, too" => "Ok glad all that's over... I wish nobody had guns."

Ultimately, I doubt fear of imminent, transient threat can produce durable support for an abstract right.
Read 8 tweets
28 Aug
Friend: "Yeah, but this is an ideological conflict. What types of people & ideologies come together in a moment like this to..."

Me, cutting him off: "My only ideology in this moment right now is, 'do not burn my stuff.' It's on that low a level at this point, which is a 🚨🚨🚨"
I can grasp & nod along with all kinds of talk of stolen labor & reparations & diversity of tactics & on & on. But when I see people's stuff on fire everywhere, & think "wow that could be my stuff that my family & community depend on for basic life functioning", it hits different
I won't tolerate fascism, won't have communism, & in general I have my opinions on the isms I like or don't like. But right now? I'm lately real heavy into "just don't burn my stuff"-ism, which is one of the most primitive, uncomplicated isms you can be into. The Old Gods, sorta.
Read 7 tweets
7 Aug
I think I'm seeing the emergency of a brand new threat to social cohesion as the pandemic grows. It's a pretty bad one, too. A thread:

In an area that has seen a ton of COVID, there are two main camps: 1) YOLOers & 2) Distancers. These camps are increasingly at bitter odds.
The YOLOers are made up of two subgroups: 1) Ppl who've gotten over COVID & are now fine, and are out just living life again, and 2) ppl who still think it's a hoax or don't care.

Regardless of subgroup, YOLOers are losing patience with the Distancers for many reasons.
They blame the Distancers for the school closures, the ongoing job losses, the economic devastation, & the general misery & breakdown of society. If only the Distancers would man up & come out of their shells, we could all move on! So YOLOERS are MAD at the Distancers.
Read 10 tweets
30 Jul
There are two really important, globe-spanning, real-estate-occupying, tax-break-soaking-up reasons why these things are not like now: datacenter & (related) warehouse/delivery infrastructure.
Here is where this guy & most of the ppl in that thread are totally wrong, not about abstractions like markets or the future or the past, but about literal reality and how it's currently structured:
All of the companies testifying right now own many square miles of carefully chosen prime physical real estate with genuine physical industrial capacity on them (datacenters, network hardware, warehouses, trucking, etc.).

Furthermore, the trend for all of this is consolidation.
Read 11 tweets
29 Jul
This morning's adventure in Virus Trutherism: Here's an account with this bio, who is endorsing a piece by an anti-vaxxer with some (surprise surprise) startling epidemiological claims in it.
Here is this post's author explaining that virus transmission is totally unaffected by human behaviors. I guess the viruses create little wormholes in space-time & jump between hosts, regardless of proximity. Amazing.
Here he is again, & not only is he wrong that SARS-CoV-2 is "seasonal," but this isn't even how a seasonal virus like the flu works! We can, in fact, stop flu from spreading by separating people & changing our behavior.
Read 5 tweets
27 Jul
Here is my basic feeling on the Three Gorges Dam situation that's may or may not shortly turn into a world-historic catastrophe:

B/c of supply chain issues & other potential conflict/uncoupling w/ China, my attitude was already "buy Chinese stuff while it's still in stock."
In other words, I add the potential dam catastrophe to "potential conflict in the SCS" & "ongoing, possibly worsening supply chain problems" on the pile of reasons we did already all our shopping for durable goods last month & are prepared for everything to be out of stock.
If none of those things worsen & the supply chain normalizes, then I lost some time value of money (& money value of time to the planning involved) for doing our back-to-school & other shopping early. That's an acceptable risk for me.
Read 10 tweets

Did Thread Reader help you today?

Support us! We are indie developers!


This site is made by just two indie developers on a laptop doing marketing, support and development! Read more about the story.

Become a Premium Member ($3/month or $30/year) and get exclusive features!

Become Premium

Too expensive? Make a small donation by buying us coffee ($5) or help with server cost ($10)

Donate via Paypal Become our Patreon

Thank you for your support!

Follow Us on Twitter!