THREAD: My system's experience spending 10 months as an active participant in the pro-endogenic (also known as PluralGang) community.

This'll probably be a long one. I'll RT with tags when I'm done.
We've seen a lot of PluralGang experiences from both systems and singlets regarding them being misinformed into believing that they were endogenic or had "tulpas". We've seen a lot of stories about trauma repression. Gaslighting. And these stories are fucking terrifying.
My system's story isn't revolved around trauma repression or believing we're something we're not. I consider us very lucky to not have fallen into that hole and my heart genuinely goes out to those that did.
It was October of 2019. We, as far as we knew, were a transmasc singlet. We'd joined a plural-friendly trans discord server called the hatchery (one of egg_irl's servers) and, like many singlets, grew confused by all the "bots" talking there.
We asked and got a bot-run command explaining what plurality was that also referred to a sister server of the hatchery called the berry bush.

This server no longer exists for reasons I'll explain later. My sincerest sympathies to anyone who remembers that place.
We'd actively identified as transmedicalists about a week before this. We were still learning how wrong it was and had a lot of guilt over some things we did while in that community. This will be important later.
We saw this server and our first thought was "this seems like some weird roleplay of DID".

We had a very vague grasp of what DID was, but had never really looked into it. We joined it with the intention to get a good laugh from the ridiculous shit we'd surely read there.
So we joined. They had a channel specifically for questioning systems. We scrolled though this and read accounts from questioning DID/OSDD systems and realized that we related very heavily to them.
After some reluctance, we started asking questions about plurality.

We are a system. They were not wrong to call us a system. But we asked the wrong questions and in hindsight, I can see a lot of singlets noting similar experiences to the ones we did at the time.
We were just asking the WRONG questions and the fact that they were still affirmed was a huge issue.

We knew what Maladaptive Daydreaming was and were running with that to excuse the time-loss and dissociating at the time. They concluded we were a system largely based on that.
But point is, that's where this all begins. And since some of the same people had deradicalized us from being truscum, we listened when they used the same logic to rationalize how endogenic systems could exist. We were scared of being shitty exclusionists again.
We were aware of the surface level of our trauma and figured out very quickly that we're a traumagenic system, but were very, very supportive of endogenic/parogenic systems and a lot of the concepts that were largely associated with them.
The main things we believed that we'll go into later were:

Alters are fully separate people instead of parts of one whole and should be treated as such

Any system type can create tulpas

It's rare to have an alter that you don't want there
As stated before, at the time we identified as transmasc. Jackson, the host at the time, created all our original PluralKit profiles with male alternatives of what he understood everyone's names to be and still had full intention to medically transition.
He saw some transmasc systems in there that had 100% male or nonbinary alters, not a single female, so surely that wouldn't turn out to be an issue later down the line, right?
This all changed when Cassie, who was identified as bigender at the time, broke down crying in the middle of a walmart while clothes shopping over the dysphoria she felt having to present as a male.
Jackson was distraught. By that point he'd recognized that some alters vibed with she/her pronouns, but he had never even fathomed that an alter in the system would take issue with us medically transitioning.
He backed down and acted like everything was fine, but a little while later he'd have a full on mental breakdown and I, Piper, would take over as the host.
I didn't at first think to connect the dots between the conflict over medically transitioning and Jackson's breakdown. I just shrugged it off as school stress, which the system was collectively concerned with at the time.
An alter who formerly went by our legal name came out of dormancy a little while later. She'd been dormant since about May or June of that year and was very confused about what the hell was going on. So I showed her the ropes and she adjusted pretty quickly.
Meanwhile, we were still very much neglecting Jackson by not actually talking to him about his desire to medically transition. Just shrugged it off as different people with different desires and a "majority rules, deal with it" mentality.
Months later, Jackson would end up lashing out at everyone in the system. The alter with our legal name even jeered at him before a DID/OSDD system in the server took issue with that and told her to back off and let Jackson vent.
Jackson went on about how he couldn't take living in a female body and we realized then how genuinely distraught he was. We still decided against a medical transition in the end, but the point is once he wasn't the host anymore we completely cast his wants aside.
And that was a mentality brought on by PG. Everyone's a separate person. If majority rules, fuck it, that's the end of it, they should just roll with that.
And Jackson's initial impression that you wouldn't have alters that you didn't want shook the system to our core and heavily divided us.
The situation with Jackson happened over the course of several months. Of course, this left plenty room for several other things to happen in the meanwhile.
We were under the impression that anyone could just create an alter out of thin air if they wanted to. We'd recently discovered an alter named Anubis, and we thought it'd be cute to make some tulpas named after other egyptian deities.
Enter Bastet and Thoth.
Bastet and Thoth never existed. But for months, we thought they did.
Eventually we realized that those two.. Just didn't exist. We didn't know what had gone wrong. Were we just bad at creating tulpas? Did we neglect them and cause them to go away?

..If those two didn't exist, were we even a system at all?
That's right. A community that preaches validity and acceptance for all nearly drove us into total system denial when we were already professionally acknowledged by that point.
It would take us a while until we connected the tulpa incident with tulpas simply.. Not being possible.
PluralGang's misinformation severely fucked with how our system functioned for a long time. We had the complete wrong idea of what was going on in here even though we fully acknowledged being traumagenic and having DID.
And that's not even getting into the social interactions and how the general mentalities the community holds hurt us severely.
We eventually became mods in Berry Bush, the server it all happened in. Long story short, we got driven out and falsely accused of pedophilia by the owners (who were later revealed to be a 21 year old system dating a 16 year old system).
Us getting wrongly driven out made a lot of people upset, and some people went to the owner like "hey, what the fuck" and the owner just.. Deleted a server with 300 people in it out of nowhere because people disagreed with their actions.
So what's our genius idea?

Make our own all-inclusive plural server.
And so Willow Tree was born.

Willow Tree, at the time we stepped down as owners, had around 230 members. I'm sure at least someone reading this will recognize the name. That was our server, back when we went by the Sterling Manor system.
For a while things went pretty well. WT quickly became one of the most active servers listed on PluralHub (a PG listing server similar to did/osdd syscord hub, but.. PluralGang).
Did we mention that cancel culture is fucking rampant in PluralGang? Because holy SHIT are we about to get into that.
My genius self decided to trial a political discourse section for the server. We didn't allow syscourse, but we did allow discussion on transmedicalism as long as nobody actually defended the ideology.
Transmed/truscum is a shit ideology. Identity isn't something to be policed. But surely everyone can agree that death threats towards those people and comparing them to nazis isn't okay, right?
Apparently fucking not.
People started saying things that suspiciously sounded like death threats towards truscum and straight up comparing them to/calling them nazis.
First of all, death threats are against discord's terms of service so we'd have had to stop that regardless. Second of all, that's just.. Not okay??
So we tried to remind people that people with super shitty takes on things are human too. We also had one or two 'transmeds' that were heavily teetering on the brink of no longer identifying with that in the server and we had that explicitly stated in the rules.
So we reminded them of that, along with again saying that it isn't okay to straight up make death threats towards people and compare them to nazis.
(john mulaney voice)

People went fucking insane.
We closed down the political section within a couple hours of opening it. We thought that'd be the end.
Then we got delisted from PluralHub, and in their public delisting log they accused us of guilt tripping and defending transmeds.
Just like that a bunch of people left the server and like.. We weren't BANNED from anywhere, but any hub-associated server we were in kind of side-eyed us and made it clear that they were uncomfortable around us. We eventually left all public servers. ALL.
That fucked with our mental health for a long while. We got framed as total pieces of shit for saying that everybody deserves to be treated as a fucking human being regardless of their beliefs.
We had one server left and it was a private, invite-only server with our close friend circle. There was a good bit of drama in there but I won't get into TOO much of that, as most of it wasn't related.
The biggest thing that happened was, during that time period, we cut off our abusive biological sister.

We don't fakeclaim people. But she was intentionally faking DID/OSDD to abuse us and we are very confident in saying this. That is the one exception to our rule.
Nobody really took issue with us cutting contact with her. But we highlighted to that close friend circle how she was faking DID and using it to abuse and gaslight us and everyone just went "ehh, I don't really want to question anyone's validity".
That's the first time we genuinely rose a brow at this whole all-inclusive plurality thing.

They'd rather validate her as a system than acknowledge how she was taking advantage of that mentality to abuse us.
Some months pass without anything really significant happening. We start talking more and more about the rampant cancel culture in the pro-endo community and even our endogenic friends agreed.
Unbeknownst to most of the system, a small handful (we're talking like 3-5 out of 35+) of alters were starting to question the whole "everyone is valid" mentality and endogenic systems in general based on a lot of the previous shit we went through related to it.
The whole time we were in the community "sysmeds" were constantly demonized. Their traumagenic-exclusive communities, even ones that banned anti-endo sentiments, were constantly bashed as poorly moderated shitholes not worth joining. You know how it goes.
For this reason, those alters felt guilty for even questioning it. But one of our persecutors finally had enough after she told our friend group about some bad things she did to another alter and they fucking RAILED her.
She sought out specifically anti-endogenic servers to finally, finally hear out the other side of the debate when everyone else was afraid to.
She found a good server and explained a bit of what was going on, how most of the system was vehemently pro-endo. She was expecting to get attacked.
They were incredibly patient with her. They answered all her questions without getting mad and cited actual studies instead of just 'well we shouldn't question experiences', along with affirming her worries that the 'everyone is valid' mentality can actually be harmful.
This went against everything we'd ever heard about "sysmed" communities. The server was arguably better moderated than any pro-endo server we'd been in and even moderated ourselves, they were open to other viewpoints, they were kind.
Another alter read through this conversation and also realized the flaws behind the argument for non traumagenic systems. This alter started to feel troubled by the fact that our friend group was extremely pro-endogenic and bashed "sysmeds" constantly.
This alter saw how these anti-endo people were kind while knowingly interacting with the pro-endo alters in the system. He had hope that it could go the other way around.
Without consulting the rest of the system, he typed up a lengthy announcement for our private server on his skepticism of endogenic systems and their integration into the traumagenic community. He made it clear he was still open to healthy discussion and sources.
The people that we'd been friends with for months and months started berating this alter, bringing up his insecurities and using them against him, and just generally shaming him for even DARING to question their experiences.
Then Jackson and myself, both completely unaware any of this was going on, were shoved in by one of the gatekeepers because this alter was starting to completely break down from the sheer bombardment he was getting from our best friends.
Jackson and myself still were pro-endogenic at the time and made this very clear to them.
One of them accused us of manipulating and left. The ones that remained started love-bombing Jackson and I while trying to convince us to turn against and gaslight our own fucking alters because they were anti-endogenic.
Jackson backed off because he was horrified by this. I stayed behind and explained that I was still very pro-endogenic but very disappointed by how the anti-endogenic alter was treated. At the very least, they should have been productive instead of just ATTACKING him.
People left. Our best friend left a goodbye note stating they were leaving and wouldn't come back until we'd convinced the anti-endogenic alters (and even said them all by name) to go back on their views entirely.
Jackson reached out to this friend to try and repair things with them since the system had the majority pro-endogenic at the time.
At the same time, the alter that had gotten bombarded had gone into hiding and J made a post on r/DID saying that he wanted to know how to help this alter recover, stating that he didn't agree with his views but would always support him as a person even if his views never change
The friend sent a message along the lines of "I was going to reconnect with you until I saw that reddit post. That wasn't okay of you to do."
It wasn't okay to seek out help for our own alter after a severely traumatic event. It wasn't okay to respect our alter as a human being even if he held a different opinion than us.
The person that was mediating messages for us also took issue with that and found posts from the offending system on twitter that were deliberately misquoting us and demonizing the whole system for seeking help, not even mentioning how most of us were pro-endogenic.
That's what pushed us over the edge. There was a rapid shift from "mostly endo advocates with a few skeptical alters" to "some are neutral but a lot just genuinely hate the concept of endogenic systems and the community".
How fucking dare you try to turn someone against their own alters. How fucking dare you insinuate alters don't deserve compassion if they don't fit into a certain mold.
And that's the genuine mentality that a lot of these people hold. That system I mentioned has over 1,000 followers on twitter. It's a fucking hive mentality.
The alter that got bombarded is still in a terrible mental state and we're still trying to reach out to him to help him. We got several resulting trauma splits from that situation. And this is what happens when you attack people for holding views; YOU PUSH THEM TO THE OTHER SIDE.
All in all; PG seriously fucked with how my system functioned and, in the end, caused us a lot of fucking trauma sourcing from our own friends. I don't miss them one bit.

-Piper 🪐

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