Thread by @WLKYMark

I’m at the Louisville Metro Council’s government oversight committee meeting, where Amy Hess, chief of public safety, and Robert Schroeder, acting chief of @LMPD, are both present. Previously, Schroeder had indicated to the courts he would not testify. Guess we’ll see...

Also in the room is LMPD’s command staff, seen hearing taking oath.

Hess begins with a disclaimer about all the things she cannot say, citing state law as well as requests from @kyoag and FBI, who have not announced final outcome from #BreonnaTaylor investigation.

Hess openly acknowledges disagreements between @LMPD and @louisvillemayor administration and says “There are those in LMPD who viewed me as an interferent.”

Ackerson is grilling Hess on her assertion she cannot answer any questions that involve a Public Integrity Unit investigation. She says she is aware of 5-10 such investigations involving #BreonnaTaylor protests.

So, for example, Hess says there were no directives to shoot pepper balls at members of #loumedia, but she says she will not discuss specific instances in which members of the media were shot by pepperballs. Background:
wave3.com/2020/06/03/kai…

Oversight chair Brent Ackerson asks Hess why she has not directed Schroeder to testify. She gives convoluted answer that basically says she’s punting to whatever his attorney thinks is best.

But here’s a key point from Hess’s point of view: She believes any time any member of law enforcement or government discuss an ongoing investigation before a defendant ends up in court, it’s “problematic” because it can affect prospective jury members.

Hess describes opening days of protests. While she concedes much of protests were peaceful, she goes on to describe riots, looting and violence that led to escalated police response.

“Some say we have not enforced the law enough, while some say we have enforced it too harshly,” Hess says. “... In turbulent times, policing is an art, not a science.”

Hess says she took command of @LMPD on June 1 after the most turbulent period of civil unrest.

LMPD Maj. Aubrey Gregory says on May 28, first night of major protests, he had no reason to believe that evening’s protests would be as big as they were. Had previously seen 20-25 cars in brief caravan protests. Dep. Chief LaVita Chavous confirms same.

Then, Chavous says, text message went out for command staff to get to city’s emergency operations center. She is unsure of timing and whether it happened before or after protestors and police encountered each other at Second Street Bridge.

Major Gregory says he issued “1030,” or officers in distress, when large group of protestors began heading toward police stationed at Second Street Bridge. He says protestors “surrounded” officers and he was concerned for everyone’s safety, as well as safety of motorists.

Gregory: Then comes call from help from LMPD officers at Metro Hall because protestors were shaking booking van. Then, gunfire and “large explosions” from fireworks. Someone shot in leg. Gregory decided to deploy gas at that point “to save those humans.”

Ackerson asks Schroeder’s attorney, Joe Klaus, if Schroeder will talk. Klaus says no. Background:

Ackerson makes motion to ask a judge to force Schroeder to testify.

Louisville Metro Council’s government oversight committee votes to ask judge to force Robert Schroeder to testify before council.

By Friday, May 29, Asst. Chief Josh Judah, was put in charge of ground command (crowd control, etc.) and reported to Chavous, who became incident commander, he says. That seems to be when LMPD moved to an “incident command structure.”

Ackerson says he thinks that’s when police response became more aggressive and asks Judah to tell him where he’s wrong.

Judah: Protest crowd became very “heterogenous,” with families as well as “outside groups.” Over weekend, they would see daytime’s peaceful protests “devolve with certain elements within the crowd into an organized and coordinated effort” to attack police and vandalize buildings.

Judah: At that point, police deemed protest an “unlawful assembly” and staged police with riot gear. Would give crowds warning with PA systems 15 minutes ahead of taking actions.

Judah also refers to May 28 as “cataclysmic event,” noting how 7 people were shot and ambulances couldn’t get through protests. “That was the context” for police eventually deeming protests as “unlawful assembly.”

Judah says he never experienced what he experienced with some protesters, saying they used “medieval weapons” to assault police officers, such as bricks and Molotov cocktails. Conditions included smoke, lights being shined in officers eyes, assaults coming from “360 degrees.”

Judah: Those “violent engagements” led to LMPD reaching out to state for additional resources - KSP and the National Guard. Around same time, massive car caravan protests begin forming, causing another logistical challenge. Curfew implemented.

Judah: By Sunday, fateful night David McAtee was shot (technically early Monday morning), the last large crowd was seen at 26th and Broadway. That’s when police and National Guard were sent down to clear out the crowd... what police hopes would be the end of a long night.

Hess says Schroeder had made it known he was retiring this year before he was named acting chief, and she denies there was any discussion he should retire so he does not have to testify before council. (He is retiring Oct. 1, at which point the council cannot subpoena him.)

“We know there are violent elements in our city and our nation who co-opt peaceful protests,” says LMPD Asst. Chief Josh Judah.