Proceedings are about to begin in the Trump campaign's pared-down lawsuit to block certification of the Pennsylvania vote.
Now featuring Rudy Giuliani.
I'll live-tweet the proceedings for @lawcrimenews.
lawandcrime.com/2020-election/…
Now featuring Rudy Giuliani.
I'll live-tweet the proceedings for @lawcrimenews.
lawandcrime.com/2020-election/…
There are 3,999 people on the line.
(There's a 4,000 maximum.)
"All rise."
Judge: Please be seated.
(There's a 4,000 maximum.)
"All rise."
Judge: Please be seated.
Judge Matthew W. Brann calls the case.
Rudy: "I represent the plaintiffs in this case," asking to be admitted pro hac vice (for this occasion).
Judge: That's done.
Rudy: "I represent the plaintiffs in this case," asking to be admitted pro hac vice (for this occasion).
Judge: That's done.
A parade of lawyers for the various parties state their names for the record.
Judge Brann: We're here for oral arguments on the defendants' motion to dismiss.
Brann: The plaintiffs' amended complaint "has removed several counts" from the plaintiffs' original complaint.
Trump falsely denied this reality.
Background via @LambeJerry
lawandcrime.com/2020-election/…
Trump falsely denied this reality.
Background via @LambeJerry
lawandcrime.com/2020-election/…
Rudy Giuliani is up first for the plaintiffs.
"May it please the court," he begins.
"May it please the court," he begins.
Giuliani alleges "widespread nationwide voter fraud."
There is no evidence of it, and international observers call this false.
"This is one of those situations that you do not let a serious crisis to to waste," he says.
There is no evidence of it, and international observers call this false.
"This is one of those situations that you do not let a serious crisis to to waste," he says.
Giuliani calls mail-in ballots a threat of voter fraud.
(Note: Three other lawyers for the Trump campaign have denied such claims in court, when pressed by judges.)
(Note: Three other lawyers for the Trump campaign have denied such claims in court, when pressed by judges.)
Giuliani:
"We now have an opportunity to hold back votes or produce votes after an election to make up a deficit."
Note: Votes were counted after Election Day, they were not "held back."
"We now have an opportunity to hold back votes or produce votes after an election to make up a deficit."
Note: Votes were counted after Election Day, they were not "held back."
Giuliani claims inspectors "weren't allowed to observe" the ballot-counting.
They were, and other Trump attorneys have conceded that.
They were, and other Trump attorneys have conceded that.
Giuliani claims this is alleged conspiracy happening in "big cities, controlled by Democrats."
"You'd have to be a fool to think this is an accident."
"You'd have to be a fool to think this is an accident."
Side note:
In the original complaint, which has been significantly pared down, Trump's campaign alleged suspected instances of voter fraud in two Republican counties.
The campaign did not sue those counties, only the blue counties. lawandcrime.com/2020-election/…
In the original complaint, which has been significantly pared down, Trump's campaign alleged suspected instances of voter fraud in two Republican counties.
The campaign did not sue those counties, only the blue counties. lawandcrime.com/2020-election/…
Giuliani moves onto a separate complaint about the ability to cure errors on mail-in ballots.
He says that some counties allowed ability to cure defects and others did not.
"That's exactly Bush v. Gore. Exactly!"
He says that some counties allowed ability to cure defects and others did not.
"That's exactly Bush v. Gore. Exactly!"
Background:
A separate GOP challenge against counties that allowed mail-in voters to cure defective ballots... did not go well.
Judge Savage shredded it. lawandcrime.com/2020-election/…
A separate GOP challenge against counties that allowed mail-in voters to cure defective ballots... did not go well.
Judge Savage shredded it. lawandcrime.com/2020-election/…
Giuliani:
"I believe we're going to prove it."
"I believe we're going to prove it."
Compare Rudy Giuliani's arguments in Pennsyvania to another Trump campaign lawyer's arguments in Arizona.
https://twitter.com/KlasfeldReports/status/1328367399603752965?s=20
Giuliani invokes the specter of a "stolen" election, a claim expressly disclaimed by Team Trump's lawyers in Arizona.
Giuliani rants about Philadelphia, describing it as corrupt in a grand, corrupt, airy conspiracy theory of mass fraud with no specifics:
"This doesn't happen in an honest place."
"This is an outrage, your honor, to do this to people."
"This doesn't happen in an honest place."
"This is an outrage, your honor, to do this to people."
Rudy alleged 1.5 million illegal votes.
He doesn't explain how he arrived at that number.
He doesn't explain how he arrived at that number.
Rudy Giuliani submits an exhibit that he describes as someone using binoculars to observe the process.
A defense counsel asks him to represent as an "officer of the court" that an exhibit is from Philadelphia county.
"I was told that," Giuliani responds.
A defense counsel asks him to represent as an "officer of the court" that an exhibit is from Philadelphia county.
"I was told that," Giuliani responds.
Giuliani says he'll correct himself if he learns otherwise.
Giuliani's co-counsel declines to add anything.
Up next is Daniel Donovan, representing the Pennsylvania Secretary of the Commonwealth for the powerhouse firm Kirkland & Ellis
Up next is Daniel Donovan, representing the Pennsylvania Secretary of the Commonwealth for the powerhouse firm Kirkland & Ellis
Secretary of the Commonwealth Kathy Boockvar is working hard to meet the "fast approaching" deadline to certify the vote, Donovan says.
"Counsel on the side of the aisle focused on allegations that aren't in the complaint," Donovan notes.
"Counsel on the side of the aisle focused on allegations that aren't in the complaint," Donovan notes.
Put another way, Giuliani's freewheeling opening statement bore little semblance to their actual lawsuit.
Donovan dedicates his opening statement to a far less flashy rebuttal to what their lawsuit says, not what Giuliani declaimed.
"There is no claim in the complaint that any Pennsylvania voter cast more than one ballot."
"There is no claim in the complaint that any Pennsylvania voter cast more than one ballot."
Donovan: "There's nothing unequal about the ability to cast a vote in this case."
He boils down their actual argument to a claim that a tiny number of ballots were counted and shouldn't have been, therefore all of them should be thrown out.
He calls that claim "un-American."
He boils down their actual argument to a claim that a tiny number of ballots were counted and shouldn't have been, therefore all of them should be thrown out.
He calls that claim "un-American."
Donovan moves onto the issue of standing.
"Federal courts have immense power," but limited jurisdiction, he notes.
"Federal courts have immense power," but limited jurisdiction, he notes.
Donovan:
"The plaintiffs fail to assert particularized concrete injuries under the law."
"The plaintiffs fail to assert particularized concrete injuries under the law."
Donovan delves deeply into standing requirements, i.e. the right to sue.
Lawyers hoping to win a case, rather than using the federal judiciary to get out their PR messaging, must focus on legal issues like this.
Lawyers hoping to win a case, rather than using the federal judiciary to get out their PR messaging, must focus on legal issues like this.
Donovan: "The plaintiffs don't actually alleged vote denial."
If the plaintiffs wanted to allege that, they would have sued Fayette and Lancaster County.
They didn't, he notes.
If the plaintiffs wanted to allege that, they would have sued Fayette and Lancaster County.
They didn't, he notes.
Context:
Fayette: Trump +34
Lancaster:Trump +16
Fayette: Trump +34
Lancaster:Trump +16
Donovan, referring to the plaintiff's case: "It's just speculation."
Before turning to equal protection claims, Donovan has one final word on his argument that plaintiffs' haven't proven a right to sue.
"On standing, I think that's the place to stop."
"On standing, I think that's the place to stop."
The public line has turned to pure static.
Standby.
Standby.
Still just white noise on the line of the day's most high-profile hearing.
Donald J. Trump for President, Inc., et al. v. Boockvar, et al. 4:20-cv-2078
in the Middle District of Pennsylvania
cc: @uscourts
Donald J. Trump for President, Inc., et al. v. Boockvar, et al. 4:20-cv-2078
in the Middle District of Pennsylvania
cc: @uscourts
Related:
Shortly before today's hearing, the @AP was denied physical entry into the courtroom because of COVID-19. So tech issues could effectively amount to a courtroom closure.
Doc: beta.documentcloud.org/documents/2040…
Shortly before today's hearing, the @AP was denied physical entry into the courtroom because of COVID-19. So tech issues could effectively amount to a courtroom closure.
Doc: beta.documentcloud.org/documents/2040…
Still mostly white noise but some barely audible words in the distant background.
Progress?
Progress?
Restored!
Judge:
"We had the telephone lines go down for reasons that I don't understand."
"My apologies, Mr. Donovan."
He invites the Secretary of the Commonwealth's counsel to pick up his arguments where he left off.
"We had the telephone lines go down for reasons that I don't understand."
"My apologies, Mr. Donovan."
He invites the Secretary of the Commonwealth's counsel to pick up his arguments where he left off.
Donovan calls the plaintiffs' equal protection arguments a "mystery."
They do not allege that other counties' efforts to expand voting-access made it harder for them to vote in their counties, he notes.
They do not allege that other counties' efforts to expand voting-access made it harder for them to vote in their counties, he notes.
Mark A. Aronchick, counsel for the Allegheny County Board of Elections, is now up—on a static-filled line.
He calls Rudy Giuliani "really inventive."
He calls Rudy Giuliani "really inventive."
Aronchick says the pictures that Giuliani is "waving around" today are "irrelevant" because of the Supreme Court's opinion, which he says he does not believe Giuliani read.
Aronchick:
"Mr. Giuliani is talking about another case. Not the case before your honor."
"Mr. Giuliani is talking about another case. Not the case before your honor."
Aronchick says there Giuliani is turning the equal protection clause "upside down," arguing that making ballot-access easier violates their rights.
If some counties do a poorer job of ballot-access, Aronchick says: "We don't race to the bottom now."
Aronchick: "I believe we have an actual complaint in front of us."
Not the freewheeling riff that Giuliani gave.
"This is just disgraceful," Aronchick says of Giuliani's riff.
Not the freewheeling riff that Giuliani gave.
"This is just disgraceful," Aronchick says of Giuliani's riff.
Aronchick calls Giuliani's rant unbecoming of a U.S. federal courtroom.
Aronchick on the Trump campaign's complaint:
"There are no specifics. There are no numbers in here."
"There are no specifics. There are no numbers in here."
Aronchick on the request to cancel millions of vote:
"It is disgraceful that you're being asked to do that."
"It is disgraceful that you're being asked to do that."
"Rudy Giuliani’s ‘Disgraceful’ Courtroom Rant About Voter Fraud Didn’t Resemble Trump Lawsuit"
My developing story, @lawcrimenews
Meanwhile, the live-tweet continues.
lawandcrime.com/2020-election/…
My developing story, @lawcrimenews
Meanwhile, the live-tweet continues.
lawandcrime.com/2020-election/…
Aronchick notes that the number of votes at issue in the amended complaint would have no bearing on the contest.
Aronchick compares the Rudy Giuliani of today to the Jill Stein of 2016.
Aronchick to Judge Brann: "Dismiss this case, please, so we can move on."
He notes that the case hast turned "for some reason" into some sort of "lifeline" for the Trump campaign.
"We need to move on. We need to get this election certified."
He notes that the case hast turned "for some reason" into some sort of "lifeline" for the Trump campaign.
"We need to move on. We need to get this election certified."
Brann calls for a 10-minute recess.
We're back.
Elizabeth A. Dupuis is up for Centre County Board of Elections.
"Centre County did nothing wrong."
Elizabeth A. Dupuis is up for Centre County Board of Elections.
"Centre County did nothing wrong."
Centre County's count was live-streamed on the web, she notes.
The complaint points to an unidentified voter receiving a provisional ballot.
"The plaintiff's campaign team was present the entire time... and raised no objections to the process."
The complaint points to an unidentified voter receiving a provisional ballot.
"The plaintiff's campaign team was present the entire time... and raised no objections to the process."
The DNC's lawyer Uzoma Nkwonta, from Perkins Coie, is up.
He reiterates a point made earlier by the counties that Trump's co-plaintiffs sued the wrong counties.
They're from Trump-backing Fayette and Lancaster Counties.
They sued seven blue counties, alleging vote denial.
He reiterates a point made earlier by the counties that Trump's co-plaintiffs sued the wrong counties.
They're from Trump-backing Fayette and Lancaster Counties.
They sued seven blue counties, alleging vote denial.
Nkwonta addresses Giuliani's voter-fraud allegations:
He notes that other Trump campaign attorneys expressly disavowed those claims.
One such case:
lawandcrime.com/2020-election/…
Another such case:
lawandcrime.com/2020-election/…
He notes that other Trump campaign attorneys expressly disavowed those claims.
One such case:
lawandcrime.com/2020-election/…
Another such case:
lawandcrime.com/2020-election/…
Nkwonta says what the plaintiffs take issue with is not the counting of the ballots but the voters' choices.
Judge Brann gets to his questions:
"You're asking this court to invalidate 6.8 million votes... Can you tell me how this result can possibly be justified?"
"You're asking this court to invalidate 6.8 million votes... Can you tell me how this result can possibly be justified?"
Giuliani's line was barely audible in his initial answer.
Eventually, he audibly calls the alleged conduct "egregious."
"We're not asking for the entire vote to be canceled," he says, before seemingly asking yet again for just that.
Eventually, he audibly calls the alleged conduct "egregious."
"We're not asking for the entire vote to be canceled," he says, before seemingly asking yet again for just that.
Giuliani claims that the scope of the requested remedy is because of the scope of the alleged violation.
Giuliani:
"Those two men lost their right to vote," referring to his individual clients, who are residents of Fayette and Lancaster, whom he did not sue.
"Those two men lost their right to vote," referring to his individual clients, who are residents of Fayette and Lancaster, whom he did not sue.
Giuliani says his clients' counties did nothing wrong.
Another federal judge rejected the notion that the other counties did anything wrong, either. lawandcrime.com/2020-election/…
Another federal judge rejected the notion that the other counties did anything wrong, either. lawandcrime.com/2020-election/…
Giuliani refers to "the man who was really angry with me," apparently referring to the counties' attorney, Mr. Aronchick.
Mr. Donovan for Penn. Sec of Commonwealth:
"I think Mr. Giuliani can be more aggrieved because he deleted his due-process claim."
"I know that Mr. Giuliani wants to talk about his canvass which is not in his complaint."
"I think Mr. Giuliani can be more aggrieved because he deleted his due-process claim."
"I know that Mr. Giuliani wants to talk about his canvass which is not in his complaint."
Judge Brann:
In the amended complaint, you repeatedly cite the dangers from voter fraud.
But neither count of your complaint seeks relief for voter fraud.
"So it's correct to say you're not alleging fraud in your amended complaint."
Giuliani says no, he is alleging that.
In the amended complaint, you repeatedly cite the dangers from voter fraud.
But neither count of your complaint seeks relief for voter fraud.
"So it's correct to say you're not alleging fraud in your amended complaint."
Giuliani says no, he is alleging that.
Judge Brann asks why he should consider claims that were deleted and taken out of the action.
"That's what I'm bound to. The complaint's been amended. Do we agree?"
Giuliani says certainly, with a chuckle.
"That's what I'm bound to. The complaint's been amended. Do we agree?"
Giuliani says certainly, with a chuckle.
Judge Brann turns to the "new theory" of standing.
"In the amended complaint, you said your clients tried to vote in Lancaster and Fayette County."
"So why didn't you just sue the counties that are responsible for your clients' injuries?"
"In the amended complaint, you said your clients tried to vote in Lancaster and Fayette County."
"So why didn't you just sue the counties that are responsible for your clients' injuries?"
Linda Ann Kerns answers that one, claiming that equal protection issues transcend state law.
(The argument is that other counties' efforts to expand ballot access harm those that don't, a notion another attorney described as a race to the bottom.)
(The argument is that other counties' efforts to expand ballot access harm those that don't, a notion another attorney described as a race to the bottom.)
Judge Brann:
"Why is Secretary Boockvar here?"
He notes that her actions have nothing to do with their clients' votes, but they sued her.
"Why is Secretary Boockvar here?"
He notes that her actions have nothing to do with their clients' votes, but they sued her.
Q: What is the injury?
Kerns, Trump camp atty: Of the voters or the campaign?
Q: The campaign.
Kerns alleges that if everyone had a chance to cure defective ballots, the results could have been "very, very different."
(Note: They wouldn't.) lawandcrime.com/2020-election/…
Kerns, Trump camp atty: Of the voters or the campaign?
Q: The campaign.
Kerns alleges that if everyone had a chance to cure defective ballots, the results could have been "very, very different."
(Note: They wouldn't.) lawandcrime.com/2020-election/…
Biden has a 70K+ lead, and the Trump campaign is saying that could have caught up if only mail-in voters—with whom Biden performed well—had been allowed to cure defective ballots.
That's the claim.
That's the claim.
Judge Brann asks whether the Trump campaign is raising any other theories of standing.
Giuliani recites his previously-cited theory of standing.
Giuliani recites his previously-cited theory of standing.
Judge Brann:
What standard of review should I apply in this case and why?
Giuliani says the "normal one."
Are you arguing that strict scrutiny should apply?
Giuliani says normal scrutiny should apply.
What standard of review should I apply in this case and why?
Giuliani says the "normal one."
Are you arguing that strict scrutiny should apply?
Giuliani says normal scrutiny should apply.
Brann:
How does making it easy for some people to vote burden the plaintiffs' right to vote?
How does making it easy for some people to vote burden the plaintiffs' right to vote?
Judge Brann tells the plaintiffs that they need a new motion for an injunction since they have a such a different amended complaint.
"You should write this down. That's what lawyers do. They write things down."
"You should write this down. That's what lawyers do. They write things down."
Brann notes that plaintiffs want to file a second amended complaint.
They would have to file a motion requesting the right to file that, the judge notes.
They would have to file a motion requesting the right to file that, the judge notes.
Judge Brann was just about to say he was going to take the matter under advisement.
Then the counties' attorney Mark A. Aronchick asked whether the judge has a problem with the parties answering press inquiries.
No, the judge replies. They can.
Thank you, your honor.
Then the counties' attorney Mark A. Aronchick asked whether the judge has a problem with the parties answering press inquiries.
No, the judge replies. They can.
Thank you, your honor.
Deleted and replaced the above tweet to correct a typo.
Re-connecting the thread here.
Re-connecting the thread here.
https://twitter.com/KlasfeldReports/status/1328847245467324418?s=20
Giuliani claims that his co-counsel Kerns needs "protection" because of harassing calls.
Judge says the calls she received were "regrettable," but they weren't threatening.
"The word I would use would be 'mockery.'"
Judge says the calls she received were "regrettable," but they weren't threatening.
"The word I would use would be 'mockery.'"
The judge then, going off the record, recommends the attorneys avail themselves of Williamsport, PA.'s restaurants.
There are better-than-usual restaurants because of a local culinary school.
There are better-than-usual restaurants because of a local culinary school.
(Not 'off-the-record' in the journalistic sense, readers—in the transcript sense.)
Judge Brann is now giving his recommendations as a veritable Zagat of the federal bench.
"He's a character," a voice that certainly sounds like Rudy's chuckles and says of the judge as everyone signs off.
End of hearing.
End of hearing.
This story went up some hours ago. It's about due for an update, which will be coming up shortly.
ICYMI: "Rudy Giuliani’s ‘Disgraceful’ Courtroom Rant About Voter Fraud Didn’t Resemble Trump Lawsuit" lawandcrime.com/2020-election/…
ICYMI: "Rudy Giuliani’s ‘Disgraceful’ Courtroom Rant About Voter Fraud Didn’t Resemble Trump Lawsuit" lawandcrime.com/2020-election/…
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