*Some popular misconceptions about Motzki: a thread*
Harald Motzki (d. 2019) was an extremely influential scholar in secular Hadith Studies, best known for his criticisms of Joseph Schacht and Gautier Juynboll; his work on the Muṣannaf of ʿAbd al-Razzāq; and his defence of the isnād-cum-matn analysis.
Motzki is also one of the most misunderstood and miscited scholars in this field—usually in popular discourse, but sometimes even in scholarship. In particular, it is often said that Motzki reaffirmed the traditional reliability of Hadith, or something to that effect.
It may thus come as a surprise to discover that, in many ways, Motzki was actually quite skeptical and revisionist!

This thread will provide some notable examples thereof.
[This thread was requested by my colleague @DrJavadTHashmi, and is based on drafts of some material that I have been working on. Hopefully, it will eventually appear as a proper article!]
To be clear, this thread is about *what* Motzki said, rather than whether what he said is *correct*. In other words, even if we ultimately conclude that Motzki was wrong about everything, it is useful to know what he *actually* thought about Hadith, etc.!
To begin with, Motzki famously criticised Schacht’s model of the development of Hadith and Fiqh. However, his disagreements with Schacht have been exaggerated: in some key respects, he actually accepted the Schachtian model.
For example, Motzki’s conclusions about the concept of Sunnah in the usage of ʿAṭāʾ b. Abī Rabāḥ (d. 732-735), one of the greatest early Meccan jurists, is consistent with Schacht’s view thereon: general, communal good practice.
Motzki concluded that early Meccan Fiqh was “primarily” based upon Raʾy (juridical reasoning, opinion, or preference) rather than Hadith, which is similar to Schacht’s view. (They only differed on whose Raʾy it was!) Motzki himself acknowledged this:
Motzki also acknowledged that his own research confirmed Schacht’s observations and inferences that the jurists of the 8th Century overwhelmingly cited Follower and Companion hadiths, rather than hadiths of the Prophet:
Motzki also seemed to agree with some skeptics regarding there being evidence of the mass-retrojection of Prophetical Hadith unto Ibn ʿAbbās:
Finally, Schacht and Juynboll’s chronology on the rise of the *regular* use of isnāds (that it occurred around the early-to-mid 8th Century) is actually very similar to Motzki’s own findings:
In short, many of Motzki’s “findings” actually “support Schacht’s vision of the development of Islamic law,” as @GabrielSaidR observes.
This is not to say that Motzki did not disagree with Schacht et al. on many issues – he certainly did. But he also affirmed—or produced results that are consistent with—many of Schacht’s basic conclusions on early Hadith and Fiqh.
Moving on to the isnād-cum-matn analysis (henceforth, abbreviated as ICMA)!
To put it simply, the ICMA systematically identifies correlations between specific wordings and specific tradents, explaining the latter as being responsible for the former, and thereby reconstructing earlier redactions of the hadith in question.
Firstly, it should be noted that Motzki himself did not invent the ICMA, nor did his notable colleagues Andreas Görke and Gregor Schoeler.
We might actually identify a kind of forerunner to the ICMA already in classical Islamic scholarship, with the identification of idrāj (insertion or interpolation in hadiths) with specific tradents.
Certainly, @hasibmn has argued that the ICMA does in fact exist in classical Islamic Hadith scholarship:
I am personally not yet convinced of this (e.g., that intermittent identifications of idrāj = the ICMA), but I will continue to look into the matter. If anyone more familiar with traditional Hadith scholarship has input thereon, please let me know!
Regardless, Motzki himself seems to have identified Jan Kramers (wr. 1953) and Joseph van Ess (wr. 1975) is the pioneers of the ICMA.
Less known, or unappreciated, is the fact that Juynboll also seems to have practiced or at least advocated a version of the ICMA, often noting the recurring correlations between particular tradents and particular wordings, explaining the latter as the redactions of the former:
However, Juynboll did not systematically reconstruct earlier recensions thereby & mostly focused on isnāds in his published analyses. Also, he & Motzki famously debated the reliability of SSs & role of CLs. Thus, his support—at least in principle—of the ICMA has been overlooked.
Indeed, some scholars see a big methodological break between Juynboll and Motzki, whereas Kevin Reinhart sees the latter as a refinement of the former—correctly, in my view, especially given all of the above.
Moving on to Motzki’s implementation of the ICMA.

Firstly, some points on his view of “common links”, i.e., the recurring sources or bottlenecks collectively cited within the isnāds of given hadiths; or the first mass-transmitters of these hadiths.
Motzki actually agreed with Juynboll that the CL is at least the formulator of the underlying, common wording of the various redactions of their students; the hadith’s ur-form is *their formulation*, even if the CL is paraphrasing something earlier (as Motzki would have it).
This agreement on what was *at minimum* the role of the CL has been noted by Reinhart, again:
Motzki also conceded that it is plausible that CLs (here referred to as “first collectors”) simply guessed or inferred earlier names in their cited isnāds:
Moving on the utility of the ICMA: Motzki was famously quite pessimistic thereon, given that the method is usually only able to reconstruct a basic outline of elements back to 8th-Century CLs, and an even barer common “kernel” back into the 7th Century:
In other words, far from showing that hadiths are somehow straightforwardly ‘authentic’, Motzki's ICMA actually shows that reports and memories underwent considerable mutation and legendary development in the course of transmission over the first two centuries of Islam. E.g.:
It is presumably for this reason, along with the belated emergence of isnāds (i.e. transmission was mostly undocumented until at least the end of the 7th C.), that Motzki concluded the ICMA can *rarely if ever* demonstrate that hadiths are accurate representations of the Prophet:
*That* is why Motzki was reluctant to push hadiths all the way back to the Prophet, despite the cheeky prodding of some colleagues!
For a recent discussion with some similar points about the limitations of the ICMA, see @shahanSean, Muhammad, pp. 6-7.
In short, Motzki was a very influential scholar in secular Hadith Studies, and a famous critic of Schacht and Juynboll. However, in many key respects, he held similar views to his forebears. Contrary to popular misconception, Motzki was actually quite skeptical and revisionist.

• • •

Missing some Tweet in this thread? You can try to force a refresh
 

Keep Current with Joshua Little @islamicorigins.bsky.social

Joshua Little @islamicorigins.bsky.social Profile picture

Stay in touch and get notified when new unrolls are available from this author!

Read all threads

This Thread may be Removed Anytime!

PDF

Twitter may remove this content at anytime! Save it as PDF for later use!

Try unrolling a thread yourself!

how to unroll video
  1. Follow @ThreadReaderApp to mention us!

  2. From a Twitter thread mention us with a keyword "unroll"
@threadreaderapp unroll

Practice here first or read more on our help page!

More from @IslamicOrigins

Nov 4, 2024
[1] This thread is predicated upon several misunderstandings of the diagram I posted recently (x.com/IslamicOrigins…). Here are some quick clarifications, to forestall any further confusion! x.com/Tahir_X_/statu…
[2] Firstly: by “originally”, I just meant, *prior to becoming a Prophet*. I take ps.-S. to be saying: ‘M., prior to revelation, was a professional merchant.’ I think we agree on this.
[3] Secondly: I completely agree that some of the Islamic reports that depict M. as a shepherd in his youth are compatible with those depicting him as trading later on, so this is unnecessary.
x.com/Tahir_X_/statu…
x.com/Tahir_X_/statu…
Read 8 tweets
Jan 27, 2024
*A Quick Thread on Ibn Sīrīn’s Famous Hadith on the Origin of Isnads*

Inspired by the Isnad-Cum-Matn Analysis Conference later today, I thought I would post a mini-thread on my latest ICMA, which is part of a broader project of mine investigating early Hadith criticism. Image
The hadith in question is the famous statement attributed to the early Basran authority Muḥammad b. Sīrīn (d. 110/729) about the origins of isnads and the onset of tradent discrimination due to the occurrence of a fitnah.
Image
Image
The transmission of this hadith has already been analysed by Pavel Pavlovitch (@muha_akhusiyya) in his article “The Origin of the Isnād”, and further by Elon Harvey (@hadithworks) in the following thread and associated article:
Read 17 tweets
Sep 1, 2023
I had a lovely time giving my lecture for the Inekas Summer School last night: the energy was great, and the questions from the students were excellent. Thank you for the wonderful opportunity!
I also managed to catch the lecture after mine, given by Andreas Görke, which was a great discussion of his excellent article on Zaynab bt. Jahsh:
brill.com/view/journals/…
Tonight's lectures will be given by @MahsheedAnsari, @emrane, Ghasem Darzi, and @jricole. I'm hoping to listen in on these and others, although some of the lectures will be quite late in the night for me!
Read 5 tweets
May 6, 2023
@Archetypical20 @thesoftestsofty @DrJavadTHashmi Haha, the difficulty remains. Let me summarise my relevant views, and then you'll see the problem. I affirm all of the following propositions:
@Archetypical20 @thesoftestsofty @DrJavadTHashmi (1) Muslim chronicles are extremely reliable when it comes to basic political facts (who ruled; when; and where), at least as far back as the first fitnah.
@Archetypical20 @thesoftestsofty @DrJavadTHashmi (2) Arabo-Islamic genealogical sources and the like are reliable when it comes to the identities and relationships of Arab notables (who someone was; to which family or tribe they belonged; whom they married; etc.) as far back as the eve of Islam.
Read 14 tweets
Aug 30, 2022
“The Quran was revealed in three places”: A thread on a twice-misinterpreted hadith.
In his al-ʾItqān fī ʿUlūm al-Qurʾân, the famous Egyptian Sunnī scholar al-Suyūṭī (d. 911/1505) cited the following hadith from the Prophet: “The Quran was revealed in three places: Makkah, Madinah, and the Levant (al-Šām).” Image
The isnads of all versions of this hadith converge upon al-Walīd b. Muslim (Syrian; d. 195/810), from ʿUfayr b. Maʿdān (Syrian; d. c. 166/782-783), from Sulaym b. ʿĀmir (Syrian; d. 130/747-748), from ʾAbū ʾUmāmah (Hijazo-Syrian; d. 81/700-701 or 86/705), from the Prophet.
Read 28 tweets
Jul 4, 2022
An isnad-cum-matn of the Hadith of the Cloak:

A thread examining the transmission-history of an exegetical hadith on Q. 33:33.

PART 1.
I was recently asked to apply an isnad-cum-matn analysis to the famous “Hadith of the Cloak”:
There are actually several hadiths that seem to be referred to as such, including a tradition attributed to ʾUmm Salamah, and another attributed to ʿĀʾišah. In this thread, I will be looking at the latter.
Read 33 tweets

Did Thread Reader help you today?

Support us! We are indie developers!


This site is made by just two indie developers on a laptop doing marketing, support and development! Read more about the story.

Become a Premium Member ($3/month or $30/year) and get exclusive features!

Become Premium

Don't want to be a Premium member but still want to support us?

Make a small donation by buying us coffee ($5) or help with server cost ($10)

Donate via Paypal

Or Donate anonymously using crypto!

Ethereum

0xfe58350B80634f60Fa6Dc149a72b4DFbc17D341E copy

Bitcoin

3ATGMxNzCUFzxpMCHL5sWSt4DVtS8UqXpi copy

Thank you for your support!

Follow Us!

:(