Thread by @polotek

I think the thing that bothers me about the free speech debate is how simplistic it is. The idea that we aren't allowed to examine anything about the context in which things exist.

https://twitter.com/siberianmi/status/1487104952245927942

The ACLU is a body that tries to protect speech through legal action. There is a reason the ACLU isn't trying to help people get their Twitter accounts back. Because it's not the same fucking thing.

The ACLU also tries to actually stop bigoted discrimination. Because they know that's also bad. But then you talk to people like @siberianmi and he's like "the ACLU did a thing one time which means we can't censor anything ever even if it means people are getting hurt".

Then he does the thing that all white people do. "Let me tell you how the civil rights movement went. And how we won!"

I mean the sheer audacity it takes to say "they tried to censor MLK and that was bad. So maybe we should let the Nazis use substack."

https://twitter.com/siberianmi/status/1487104473734557699?t=Z4GuHZh9H5egW_DX0A0cdw&s=19

And we know Kevin isn't actually engaged with the *impact* of these things. Because he's not actually under threat. This isn't about debating "ideas". This is about what happens when the ideas spread and start radicalizing people.

https://twitter.com/polotek/status/1487086641508339715?t=Z4GuHZh9H5egW_DX0A0cdw&s=19

Hmm. Kevin's deleting his tweets. I guess he doesn't want to debate ideas anymore. Weird how do many people who swear debating things openly is the only way to work things out aren't actually ready to do that.

Fine line between debating and "dunking" I guess. One of them is necessary for the progress of human society and the other should be... censored?

https://twitter.com/siberianmi/status/1487112302621081603?t=mqjxf1H-O_mhveaWwoOc0Q&s=19

Kevin I'm not sure why you thought that debating life or death issues was gonna be nice and cordial. The context was there for people to find. Until you started deleting it.

https://twitter.com/siberianmi/status/1487114009467834375?t=mqjxf1H-O_mhveaWwoOc0Q&s=19

Kevin if everybody who was afraid of repercussions chose to silence their voice, we would never have seen the progress that was made by the civil rights movement. MLK wouldn't have deleted his tweets.

https://twitter.com/siberianmi/status/1487115968409219074?t=NEm48j4WPGSXIWsEd6XP_Q&s=19

I don't think Kevin's coming back y'all. I'm sorry you didn't get to be influenced by this rigorous debate of ideas. Apparently self-censoring is the one exception to the rule about no censoring. I'm gonna call the ACLU and ask whether this new info changes their outlook at all.

What he's saying is that not only can we not do anything to stop toxic ideas, but we also are not allowed to have any reactions to the ideas. We need debate to stay very calm, passive, emotionless. That's how you stop Nazis.

https://twitter.com/nickramki/status/1487119077378342915?t=TsWG_UnZIXUccNGnYkP-ag&s=19

Kevin thought it was important that you all don't lose the context of this debate. I asked him for an example of when we "won" against toxic ideas using reasoned debate. His first example was slavery abolition!!

https://twitter.com/polotek/status/1487080252115353600?t=TsWG_UnZIXUccNGnYkP-ag&s=19

This is what I said after hearing Kevin's interpretation of how things happened with slavery abolition and with the civil rights movement. It's so incredibly dangerous to see what happens when people believe lies about history.

https://twitter.com/polotek/status/1487094939708051462?t=TsWG_UnZIXUccNGnYkP-ag&s=19

Listen. I don't know everything about everything. Maybe my thinking is too simplistic as well. I'm interested in stopping harm. So I think we should *do* things to try and stop harm. I keep arguing with people who say the way to stop harm is to *not* do things. What am I missing?

Do nothing. Don't stop anybody from doing anything. And somehow the world will magically right itself. Vanquishing bigots and other bad actors. Cleansing itself of toxicity. But also without inconveniencing any of those bad actors. Is that what I'm supposed to be waiting on?

My wife can tell you that there's a singular pursuit that has been burning a hole in my brain for years now. If we say we're trying to make a change happen, what is the mechanism by which it is supposed to happen. Tell me *how*.

https://twitter.com/polotek/status/1487086953103171586?t=4i7BTn6NYq8urgIkxO_HsA&s=19

When you try to dig in with people on this, you eventually hit a wall. They don't know how this shit works. They're telling a fairy tale. It always ends with "and they lived happily ever after". You never find out how things are supposed to actually change.

This is what I've started to refer to as magical thinking. It's not a very charitable phrase. It makes people mad and defensive. And that's understandable. But it's intentionally provocative. I need people to acknowledge that they didn't actually paint a full picture.

What I've found is that when you probe at the cracks in their fairy tales, eventually you activate an incredible amount of dissonance in people. Once a worldview has been established, people need it to stay true. Tearing it down is painful.

We're not debating reality. We're debating our beliefs about reality. I've come to accept that's how humans work. I'm trying to figure out what to do with that truth. How does that change how I engage with people? So far it has only made me more obnoxious. I'm still processing.