New York AG @TishJames faces off this morning against Trump's lawyers on a motion to compel the Trump family, in the first hearing since the big Mazars news.
Follow our coverage, @LawCrimeNews.
Follow our coverage, @LawCrimeNews.
Kevin Wallace is arguing for @NewYorkStateAG.
Alina Habba and Ronald Fischetti are arguing for Donald Trump.
Hon. Engoran presides.
Alina Habba and Ronald Fischetti are arguing for Donald Trump.
Hon. Engoran presides.
Alan Futerfas is up for Eric Trump.
He says the motion to compel is "really unprecedented in the research that we could find given the facts of this case," calling it a "case of first impression."
He claims it raises "strong issues" about the attorney general.
He says the motion to compel is "really unprecedented in the research that we could find given the facts of this case," calling it a "case of first impression."
He claims it raises "strong issues" about the attorney general.
Futerfas on James:
"She has said unquestionably that she has a criminal investigation. She has said it over and over."
"She has said unquestionably that she has a criminal investigation. She has said it over and over."
Futerfas:
"I don't say this, your honor. She says this. Ms. James says this."
"I don't say this, your honor. She says this. Ms. James says this."
Futerfas notes that the NYAG is running in parallel with the Manhattan DA's criminal probe:
"There is no question that they are sharing information."
"There is no question that they are sharing information."
Engoron:
"Let's assume there's total cooperation" between the AG and the DA.
Is that illegal or improper, and if so, why?
"Let's assume there's total cooperation" between the AG and the DA.
Is that illegal or improper, and if so, why?
Futerfas:
After the NYAG finishes the deposition, it will go "next door" and hand it to the DA.
"What I say, they admit."
Engoron:
Don't your clients have the right to invoke their Fifth Amendment privilege.
Futerfas:
If they do, NYAG will argue for "adverse inference."
After the NYAG finishes the deposition, it will go "next door" and hand it to the DA.
"What I say, they admit."
Engoron:
Don't your clients have the right to invoke their Fifth Amendment privilege.
Futerfas:
If they do, NYAG will argue for "adverse inference."
Futerfas:
"Once you use the word 'criminal,' you're in grand jury land."
"Once you use the word 'criminal,' you're in grand jury land."
Futerfas is arguing that the NYAG is using the civil investigation process to circumvent the requirements of a criminal investigation, because James's office is "working hand in glove with the DA."
Engoron: Can't they just refuse to answer?
"Isn't that what Eric Trump did 500 times?
lawandcrime.com/high-profile/d…
"Isn't that what Eric Trump did 500 times?
lawandcrime.com/high-profile/d…
Futerfas said if they do, James will argue to draw an adverse inference.
Engoran: "But the law allows that, you've admitted that, and that's what the law is."
Futerfas replies no adverse inference would be drawn in criminal probe, which the civil investigation effectively is.
Engoran: "But the law allows that, you've admitted that, and that's what the law is."
Futerfas replies no adverse inference would be drawn in criminal probe, which the civil investigation effectively is.
Futerfas notes that James was present in court after the indictment of Allen Weisselberg and the Trump Corporation.
"Why would she be there, in the courtroom, sitting right next to Vance?" he asked, noting she also spoke outside the courtroom.
"Why would she be there, in the courtroom, sitting right next to Vance?" he asked, noting she also spoke outside the courtroom.
Futerfas: "She's working hand-in-glove with the DA."
He claims the NYAG is effectively saying: "I don't want to use the grand jury process, so I'm going to use this office subpoena process" as an "end run."
He claims the NYAG is effectively saying: "I don't want to use the grand jury process, so I'm going to use this office subpoena process" as an "end run."
Engoron:
"What if any is the practical harm in any of this if any of your clients refuse to answer" and NYAG argues an adverse inference should be drawn?
Futerfas: NYAG is going to put them in filings, "publicize them to the world."
"What if any is the practical harm in any of this if any of your clients refuse to answer" and NYAG argues an adverse inference should be drawn?
Futerfas: NYAG is going to put them in filings, "publicize them to the world."
Donald Trump's lawyer Alina Habba says they are asking for a stay:
"They're compelled to give up their Fifth Amendment privilege," she claims, by putting the possible "adverse inference" penalty over their heads.
"We need this stayed until the criminal action is done."
"They're compelled to give up their Fifth Amendment privilege," she claims, by putting the possible "adverse inference" penalty over their heads.
"We need this stayed until the criminal action is done."
Habba:
"We have to do this the right way. We have to follow the rules."
She quotes James stating: "We're going to be a real pain in the ass. He's going to know my name personally."
NYAG boasted about suing Trump, she says.
"Prosecutor misconduct," she calls it.
"We have to do this the right way. We have to follow the rules."
She quotes James stating: "We're going to be a real pain in the ass. He's going to know my name personally."
NYAG boasted about suing Trump, she says.
"Prosecutor misconduct," she calls it.
Habba calls the probe an "improper run-around" over the restraints of the criminal investigation process.
Engoron says that James had First Amendment rights when she ran for office.
Summarizing the now-AG's comments as "I'm going after him," he asks whether those remarks mean it's the "sole reason" for her civil probe.
Habba: "This is selective prosecution. It's unconstitutional."
Summarizing the now-AG's comments as "I'm going after him," he asks whether those remarks mean it's the "sole reason" for her civil probe.
Habba: "This is selective prosecution. It's unconstitutional."
Trump's lawyer Ron Fischetti sounds fired up:
"This is a unique case. This is the former president of the United States."
Fischetti says a compelling a deposition under these circumstances has reputational harm:
"It'll be on the front page of every newspaper in the world."
"This is a unique case. This is the former president of the United States."
Fischetti says a compelling a deposition under these circumstances has reputational harm:
"It'll be on the front page of every newspaper in the world."
Fischetti:
"She is acting as a District Attorney."
"She is acting as a District Attorney."
Fischetti:
"If you decide that this subpoena cannot be quashed, please—I beg you, I implore you—give your decision but give us time to appeal."
"If you decide that this subpoena cannot be quashed, please—I beg you, I implore you—give your decision but give us time to appeal."
Engoron:
"I try to give an opportunity for people to appeal to the appellate division before something bad happens."
"I'm not infallible."
Fischetti:
"Thank you, sir."
"I try to give an opportunity for people to appeal to the appellate division before something bad happens."
"I'm not infallible."
Fischetti:
"Thank you, sir."
Engoron:
You kind of brought up the "800-lb. gorilla in the room": that Trump is the former POTUS.
Engoron said that he's trying to Trump as just another respondent. He asks why this isn't the right approach.
Futerfas says "John Q. Citizen" would be entitled to the same.
You kind of brought up the "800-lb. gorilla in the room": that Trump is the former POTUS.
Engoron said that he's trying to Trump as just another respondent. He asks why this isn't the right approach.
Futerfas says "John Q. Citizen" would be entitled to the same.
Habba:
"The only reason that she is doing this because he was a former president, and because he sits on the other side of the fence," a Republican president.
She calls for an evidentiary hearing to probe whether this is premised on a "political agenda."
"The only reason that she is doing this because he was a former president, and because he sits on the other side of the fence," a Republican president.
She calls for an evidentiary hearing to probe whether this is premised on a "political agenda."
Habba:
"She used his name to became AG. She tried to use his name to become governor."
It didn't work out well from her, she says.
"She used his name to became AG. She tried to use his name to become governor."
It didn't work out well from her, she says.
Habba continues to insult NYAG:
"Judge, you're a lawyer. I'm a lawyer. We don't sit in the highest seat in New York."
"If you and I behaved as she behaved, we would be thrown before the ethics committee," she claims.
"Judge, you're a lawyer. I'm a lawyer. We don't sit in the highest seat in New York."
"If you and I behaved as she behaved, we would be thrown before the ethics committee," she claims.
Habba claims that the investigation is happening "probably because [Trump] can win again in '24."
She speculates the probe would go away if Trump disavowed that ambition.
She speculates the probe would go away if Trump disavowed that ambition.
Clerk to Habba:
"Counselor, when the judge speaks, you need to stop speaking."
"Counselor, when the judge speaks, you need to stop speaking."
Engoron questions Habba's claim of "viewpoint discrimination": "There are 600 and some odd documents in this case."
He asks whether any of them reference Trump's political views.
He asks whether any of them reference Trump's political views.
Engoron and his clerk both chide Habba for disrupting them.
Habba: "She called him an illegitimate president."
"This is about politics your honor. I'm sorry, it really is," she adds.
Habba: "She called him an illegitimate president."
"This is about politics your honor. I'm sorry, it really is," she adds.
Habba refers to Trump's "protected class."
Engoron: What protected class is he a member of?
Habba replies his political speech.
The clerk presses her on what support for that position.
Engoron: What protected class is he a member of?
Habba replies his political speech.
The clerk presses her on what support for that position.
Engoron: How do we know that the motive is Donald Trump's speech rather than his financial practices?
Futerfas:
I think you do have animus. You do have loathing.
I think you do have animus. You do have loathing.
Engoron:
Trump "isn't a protected class," which usually applies to race, religion, etc.
(Deleted to fix a typo)
Trump "isn't a protected class," which usually applies to race, religion, etc.
(Deleted to fix a typo)
Habba calls Michael Cohen "discredited" and says that James based her investigation on him.
Engoron asked whether his false statement prosecution was based on his allegations of Trump's financial impropriety.
"I don't think so," he answers his own question.
(He's right.)
Engoron asked whether his false statement prosecution was based on his allegations of Trump's financial impropriety.
"I don't think so," he answers his own question.
(He's right.)
Engoron: There were other things that got him into big trouble.
James's assistant Kevin Wallace quotes Robert Morganthau's line about Trump's oft-described mentor Roy Cohn:
"A man is not immune from prosecution just because a United States attorney happens not to like him."
"A man is not immune from prosecution just because a United States attorney happens not to like him."
Wallace notes that Trump already was under investigation at the time James made those remarks.
Habba quotes James describing Trump as a money launderer:
"We need to find out where he's laundered money."
"We need to find out where he's laundered money."
🚨Engoron says he will release a decision by 3 p.m. ET.
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