Thread by @antipovertycent

Over 2 days we've heard harrowing #DisabilityRC evidence from Mzia, a former DES participant with AimBig & employee in their BusyBeans program

We also heard from Matthew Ting, the AimBig manager who hired her for the job

Today's bullshit will be brought to you by DSS from 10am

https://twitter.com/antipovertycent/status/1496606873122111488

State manager of AimBig Ms Romero has given statements to kick things off today.

We'll here from Rick Kane from Disability Employment Australia, and later from the Department of Social Services. It's going to be a big day..

Romero is the CEO of Arriba Group, who oversees AimBig, Rehab Management (Mzia's employer).

Is now claiming that the letter of the offer employment to Mzia was an "error" and AimBig was not meant to offer the job.
Despite signing off on 29 April 2019, it was the wrong letterhead is the claim...

Romero is questioned over why the proper grievance process was not followed when Mzia raised concerns over her employment - and what else was to be done if a grievance process isn't properly followed.

It's hardly shocking for anyone dealing with this system that grievance processes aren't follow properly for staff, let alone the people they're meant to be helping...

Going through complaints process for DES participants, this will be interesting to hear their internal documents used - as we know there is no justice for those in employment services...

#DisabilityRC #AbolishMutualObligations

What was meant to happen following Mzia's complaints of harassment?

Romero is getting the names of management wrong, but isn't really clearly outlining what people are meant to do when they're harassed by job agents - colour me surprised

#DisabilityRC #AbolishMutualObligations

Saying that things should have been done, is not the same as preventing it. Action plans does nothing for the culture of bullying in job agencies that has been well documented by unemployed folks.

#DisabilityRC #AbolishMutualObligations

Moving on to Mzia's complaints about post-placement support - for those unfamiliar, this is offered to DES participants to help settle into their new job.

#DisabilityRC

Romero agrees that Mzia wanted the support, based on a letter that was sent to management at AimBig. Concedes that management should have acted and given the support - Romero said that none of these concerns were passed on, as an employee or as a DES participant.

#DisabilityRC

Romero says that 10 people across Rehab Management are from DES - Arriba Group oversees; AimBig - a DES provider, and Rehab Management - which hired Mzia, and finally, LiveBig - which gets NDIA funding as a allied health and assessment services

#DisabilityRC

Councel Cathy Dousett asks if the procedures of AimBig failed Mzia as a DES participant - Romero disagrees. Believes there were gaps, doesn't believe they failed... "supported to some extent, could have done a better job"

The system is a failure. #DisabilityRC

Romero takes accountability as CEO and apologises to Mzia for their "not doing so good"..

Romero is oddly pretending not to know what "redress" means. Is confused why Counsel Dousett is asking a q about redress... 😑

The Chair is now explaining WHY the question of redress is brought up to Romero, about what an organisation is to do to remedy their failure and the harm caused to Mzia, and people who have suffered abuse from the system. Romero is taking the q on notice...

#DisabilityRC

Dousett asking about how Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities (CRPD) is applied within AimBig.

Romero says that it is in trained, and the values of the company and show respect to people with disabilities - says they do it well 🙄

#DisabilityRC

Training is provided to all employees of AimBig + Rehab Management - Mzia received no training.

Romero says 2 years ago, then says not across the detail. Says she only did this training LAST MONTH. Claims did more than one, but can't recall.

#DisabilityRC

Romero claimed to receive training 2 years ago* but has now just clarified it was only digital training as of 2 years ago AND can't recall human rights training, but is saying "not across the detail"
Safe to say there wasn't, and likely isn't, human rights training.
#DisabilityRC

Getting into the details over the Breville coffee machine that was used for the Busy Beans program... AND the in-house coffee machine for the company..

#DisabilityRC

Romero can't confirm or dispute whether the Breville machine that was used in Busy Beans was a commercial coffee machine.. but claimed to DSS that a commercial coffee machine WAS used at all times.

#DisabilityRC

What do we reckon folks? Is this a commercial coffee machine?

#DisabilityRC

Apparently there was a "commercial machine" and Breville machines in the cafe, Mr Ting (a manager) agreed that this was the case y'day. Bit ambiguous about what equipment was used in the training, and whether what Romero told DSS was accurate.

We're on a break now. #DisabilityRC

~We're back~ Looking at the relationship between AimBig and TMC - a labour hire company used for hiring Busy Beans participants, so Rehab Management wouldn't hire Busy Beans participants..

#DisabilityRC

This was supposedly done to ease the administrative burden finding employees for Busy Beans.

It is dubious that a labour hire company was used to hire people from a caseload to a related entity of a DES provider..

#DisabilityRC

Romero using plausible deniability about the supports for DES participants and what supports they received from the labour hire company.

it's like job agencies are used to maintain a disposable workforce, one might equate that to a form of abuse..

#DisabilityRC

The CEO of a job agency is saying that they used a labour hire company for their employer network to find those in the Busy Beans program to find work.

I thought job agencies, like AimBig was meant to find people work, not rely on labour hire companies...

#DisabilityRC

They "managed" to get 26.8% of people from Busy Beans program into "sustainable employment". This was within a single region, and now Romero is claiming that COVID is to blame for the stalled success of the program 🙄

#DisabilityRC

Romero talking about an employee who was in an ADE being paid $4 per hour, and was he was hired by them on a full wage and how important it was - I agree, it is important to make sure NO ONE is paid below min wage.
However, he was not in the Busy Beans program.
#DisabilityRC

11 responses out of 167 were used to claim that the Busy Beans program was good... the Chair is perplexed by this, aren't we all... AND none of these responses are from the region in question. So err... yeah, that's cooked. Great program you got there.

#DisabilityRC

The survey was taken in relation to the grant received by Rehab Management (related entity)..
Seems real easy to get government money if you're a private company phoning it in, so why are people living in poverty?

#DisabilityRC

Dowsett is asking if Busy Beans is the sustainable employment that Romero speaks of - Romero claims that it is.
Romero now saying that it is a "pathway" to sustainable employment...

#DisabilityRC

Of the 56 employed by Busy beans, 34 were former DES participants who were employed by TMC.. who also went through the Busy Beans program. TMC described as an "external employer" to allow for ongoing, sustainable employment...

#DisabilityRC

This is all very confusing re: money exchanging hands for "make-work", "work-like" programs that all were used as results for AimBig to claim 'outcome payments' from the government..

#DisabilityRC #AbolishMutualObligations

What we're hearing here is everything that advocates against job agencies who have called for their abolition have been saying.

These entities are crooked and only exist to soak up tax payer dollars, shield the government and make their mates rich.

#AbolishMutualObligations

The person who was responsible for overseeing the management of the relationship between Rehab Management AND TMC (labour hire) has conveniently resigned, and could not give evidence.

hmmmmmmmmmmmm.........

#DisabilityRC

Wow. Romero is agreeing that outcome payments from Busy Beans to AimBig occurred...

Romero is now saying Busy Beans was sustainable ongoing employment, despite saying that employment external to the program was the sustainable ongoing employment...

#DisabilityRC

Now winding up with CEO Romero of Arriba group..

Thinks AimBig gave good support to Mzia as job agency and post-placement support.
Thinks that there was no conflict of interest for Mzia going from agency caseload to related entity.
Agrees that they didn't meet the DES deed.

Romero believes that AimBig's complaint resolution was clear to Mzia - Sackville says that is in conflict with the evidence Romero gave. Sackville asks why - Romero says they weren't "fast enough" to resolve it, where they could have done better 🙄

#DisabilityRC

Commissioner Mason asks about grievances and complaints log - Romero says there is. Romero doesn't know if it is provided to auditors...

We know that the complaints process from the department side isn't transparent, doubt that information provided by agencies is any better

While we're on break, here are some awards AimBig won (taken from their website).

Rick Kane is up from @DisabilityEmplt. We understand he's been involved in employment services for a few decades. His organisations, Disability Employment Australia, is a peak body that represents DES (un)employment agencies.

#DisabilityRC

@DisabilityEmplt He's describing a report that the Department of Social Services paid job agency peak bodies to prepare on "what works". An absolute joke to ask the abusers to recommend best practices for supporting the people they abuse. #DisabilityRC #AbolishMutualObligations

We call on @DisabilityEmplt to publicly state its support for abolishing forced participation in employment services and lobby the government for this.

The providers are the only ones the government listens to. #DisabilityRC #AbolishMutualObligations

@DisabilityEmplt Yes, & the DES providers themselves exacerbate & create barriers to employment for disabled folks. It's NOT just about compliance burden, they aren't required to have appropriate qualifications & are incentivised to extract money from people. #DisabilityRC

https://twitter.com/PWDAustralia/status/1497024409634492417?s=20&t=oQMbMHfxyMOAw838hLopRQ

Rick Kane now excusing DES labour hire by saying it's part of the labour market ... how is this good for disabled folks? Insecure & low paid jobs don't lead to sustainable jobs. He's saying it might be bc there are "a lot of jobs". None of the ~160 ppl who did BusyBeans got a job

"If" something was outside the legal expectations & how a person is treated (which is rife) the department should be able to act on it ... DSS & DESE rarely hold these organisations to account for rules breaches & the way they treat people. #DisabilityRC #AbolishMutualObligations

Kane seems to now be implying that people aren't able to get into DES due to the way the processes work ...

But we know from the folks we talk to, that lots of people actively try to avoid DES because they fear it. #DisabilityRC #AbolishMutualObligations

Counsel for @DRC_AU is asking whether online assessments are good for disabled folks.

Again, ignores the fact that many people actively hide their disability from Centrelink and job agencies out of fear, both of DES and other facctors. #DisabilityRC #AbolishMutualObligations

@DRC_AU Kane is rightly pointing out the medicalised, deficit model job capacity assessments are based on is inappropriate and fails to reflect the social model of disability, which Australia is committed to under the UN Convention on the Rights of People with Disability. #DisabilityRC

Are we hearing correctly?? @DisabilityEmplt recommends #AbolishMutualObligations?! Incredible, thank you thank you thank you #DisabilityRC

@DisabilityEmplt We are seeking confirmation from @DisabilityEmplt, this is a big deal if what the @DRC_AU counsel just said is correct. #DisabilityRC #AbolishMutualObligations

@DisabilityEmplt @DRC_AU Counsel for @DRC_AU: How to avoid providers maximising profit at the expense of disabled people?

Us: Remove the profit motive (which is just as significant for DES "non-profits" as it is for companies) – bring employment services back into the public sector. #DisabilityRC

@DisabilityEmplt @DRC_AU It's true people who support disabled folks in employment services need to be qualified.

But we don't think a "DES" qualification is appropriate. Disabled people need specialised support based on what their disability *is*, not the fact that they have a disability. #DisabilityRC

@DisabilityEmplt @DRC_AU So @DisabilityEmplt haven't had a discussion about whether there should be quotas for the number of disabled people working in DES... #DisabilityRC

He refers to the @NDIS quotas. But they include people with disabled family members / people who've worked in disability support 👎

@DisabilityEmplt @DRC_AU @NDIS YES @DRC_AU Commissioner Galbally, disabled folks should be on the BOARDS of employment services providers – and they have to be be people who've actually used employment services. #DisabilityRC #AbolishMutualObligations

@DisabilityEmplt @DRC_AU @NDIS The @DRC_AU chair is now asking whether the privatised model is incompatible w supporting disabled people consistent with the stated aims of employment services! Yasss!

The obvious answer: yes, it's completely inconsistent. We need voluntary, public sector support #DisabilityRC

@DisabilityEmplt @DRC_AU @NDIS The data Rick Kane @DisabilityEmplt referred to is here: lmip.gov.au/default.aspx?L…

It's untrue that sustainable employment outcomes are being achieved. Eg: there were ~2000 52-week outcomes in Jan. There were ~311k participants. That's less than ONE PER CENT. #DisabilityRC @DRC_AU

@DisabilityEmplt @DRC_AU @NDIS Here's the DSS data @DisabilityEmplt's CEO referred to, implying a 20% success rate for 52-week employment outcomes

Seems a little misleading, given it only includes people who GOT a job placement. eg About 16k out of 311k in Jan, or 5% of caseload. 0.2 x 0.05 = 1% #DisabilityRC

@DisabilityEmplt @DRC_AU @NDIS In January 88.5% of people in DES were unemployed longer than 1 year.

Presumably this doesn't include people in DES who also have a job & therefore shouldn't be counted unemployed.

DES isn't getting people into sustainable jobs. #DisabilityRC

From same LMIP data linked above.

@DisabilityEmplt @DRC_AU @NDIS Our fave, the department that oversees this whole shitshow, is up giving evidence now.

@DisabilityEmplt @DRC_AU @NDIS The @DRC_AU's @KateHumanRights is now reading from the (really quite brief) DES monthly report, cohorts of First Peoples, homeless folks, refugees, people who've been incarcerated etc

The person from DSS doesn't appear to be familiar with the fact that this exists. #DisabilityRC

@DisabilityEmplt @DRC_AU @NDIS @KateHumanRights YES!

@KateHumanRights: Why is the term "ex offender used"?

DSS: Avoids question. #DisabilityRC

Someone needs to show @KateHumanRights the closest thing we get in the monthly DES data to indicate sustainable employment: the 52-week outcome. That was less than 2k people in Jan.

DSS ~appears~ not to know 👀 and has left the question hanging in the air. #DisabilityRC

@KateHumanRights "i think the whole design of the DES program goes to the quality inherent in services" – absolutely incredible statement from the DSS rep

and has now confirmed quality isn't one of the 6 principles ...

#DisabilityRC #AbolishMutualObligation

@KateHumanRights "Quality isn't a standard against which providers are measured?" @KateHumanRights

"It's not included in the 6 principles applied to providers" DSS

We have a bright idea 💡 about how to get quality employment services: make 'em voluntary. #DisabilityRC #AbolishMutualObligations

@KateHumanRights Huh. DSS just remembered the 52-week outcome measure & said it's a measure of quality (though admits not a measure of quality of DES experience)

Feels like a good time to remind folks providers achieve an "outcome" even if they didn't help the person get their job. #DisabilityRC

@KateHumanRights DSS agrees the report in question is a "formulaic" executive summary – saying she hasn't seen them before??

Is it the purpose of these reports to provide a formula summary to the department? @KateHumanRights

#DisabilityRC #AbolishMutualObligations

@KateHumanRights DSS made no changes to auditing process after @ANAO_Australia recommendation to ... change auditing process 🙃🙃🙃

Says they're doing something about invalid claims. Invalid claims have NOTHING to do with how disabled folks are treated by a provider or outcomes. #DisabilityRC

It is indisputable that mistreatment and inadequate support is rife in DES. The consequences?

"There hasn't been any termination of any DES provider under the grant agreement?" – @KateHumanRights

"Correct." – DSS

#DisabilityRC #AbolishMutualObligations

@KateHumanRights DSS says people should use star ratings to figure out which DES provider would be good for them

There's no input into star ratings from DES participants. DSS doesn't take into account whether people feel safe, supported, have any positive experience with a provider #DisabilityRC

@KateHumanRights Mentions 34,000 contacts to National Customer Service Line last year.

Hoping @KateHumanRights asks how many of those were complaints vs enquiries. 🤞🤞🤞 #DisabilityRC #AbolishMutualObligations

@KateHumanRights THE PERSON SPEAKING AT THE @DRC_AU INQUIRY INTO DISABILITY EMPLOYMENT SERVICES IS NOT FAMILIAR WITH THE @AUSHUMANRIGHTS COMMISSION REPORT WILLING TO WORK

@KateHumanRights @DRC_AU @AusHumanRights DSS REP IS ALSO NOT AWARE THAT THE BCG REPORT INTO DES IS PUBLICLY AVAILABLE (thx to FOI by @lukehgomes) #DisabilityRC

@KateHumanRights @DRC_AU @AusHumanRights @lukehgomes We're talking about the Employ My Ability strategy. No mention of the fact that it is totally centred on employer needs, barely mentions the goals, needs of disabled people. #DisabilityRC

@KateHumanRights @DRC_AU @AusHumanRights @lukehgomes "Is the purpose of these reforms to address the stagnation in labour force participation of disabled people." @KateHumanRights

DSS says yes.

Let's put it plainly: the purpose is to make sure that disabled people are forced into any job that stops them getting DSP. #DisabilityRC

@KateHumanRights @DRC_AU @AusHumanRights @lukehgomes DSS rep tells @KateHumanRights that they haven't decided whether they're reforming or replacing DES.

In the consultation process they've framed the entire thing as a new model, which has a new name. #DisabilityRC

@KateHumanRights @DRC_AU @AusHumanRights @lukehgomes "Mutual obligations is a really key pathway for people to achieve employment outcomes." – DSS

WE ARE DED. 😵😵😵

She must know that the evidence shows MOs stop people getting a job?? #DisabilityRC #AbolishMutualObligations

@KateHumanRights @DRC_AU @AusHumanRights @lukehgomes Chair of @DRC_AU: Who audits the auditors?

DSS: Don't know, certainly not us.

Chair: Who chooses them?

DSS: Don't know ... we will reflect on it.

Chair: When one sees an audit report looking like an ad, might be some questions to ask.

#DisabilityRC #AbolishMutualObligations

@KateHumanRights @DRC_AU @AusHumanRights @lukehgomes Welp, that's all folks. The @DRC_AU hearing into Disability Employment Services is over.

They need closer to 3 months than 3 days to cover the problems in this system. Thank you again to the incredible Mzia for her evidence. Most of the others can get directly ➡️🗑️ #DisabilityRC