Thread by @Exalted_Speed

Hither came Red Sonja, red haired, firery-eyed, sword in hand, a thief, a reaver, a slayer, with gigantic ....tracks of land and fiery anger, to tread the jeweled thrones of the Earth under her booted feet.

Red Sonja is a comic character with an odd history and well....

https://twitter.com/PunkboyParadise/status/1503144542853382145

Red Sonja is a
Controversial, legal hell, has SEVERAL troubled movie productions, and is also one of the most iconic female warriors ever with how many people parody her. But that said how did it all start and what is her history?

Red Sonja is a comic's original character made for Conan the BARBARIAN, yeah she's technically a Conan character but that is also kind of not true....okay this is going to get weird.

Red Sonja is kind of an OC, but she was based on a character created by Robert E Howard named Red Sonya. Roy Thomas wanted to use her but she was in 16th century and so he adapted a Conan version to have the two team up.

Sonja was introduced at the end of Barry's Widsor Smith time on Conan, and she looked like this, this was her first major look it would soon be abandoned though. Either way she was introduced as this fierce warrior who can slay with the best of them...

But in her second appearance she would.....get the INFAMOUS BIKINI....okay I'm going to talk about this because this is like one of the most famous looks of all time.

the Bikini is one of the most commented thing of all time with many comics and others making fun of it. Even from back in the day you can find parodies of her, but she was still well liked HAVE ELFQUEST CREATOR WENDY PINI COSPLAYING AS HER!

Like I said it's easy to find parodies and commentary on her for good and for ill.....and well yeah she is not often respected, with many looking down on her.

That said she would eventually get fleshed out from appearances in Conan and even have her origin told, a young women loses her family and is rapped by the leader of the people who did, a god appears before her and offers her a deal.

She would only sleep with people who bested her in battle, for great skills at combat. This controversial origin and her look has made a consistent talking point. Either way Red would go on to have more stories.

Sonja would later get an ongoing, this cover being iconic and parodied. This cover was actually named one of the best covers of all time by Wizard Magazine and I can see why, it leaves a hell of an impression.

Frank Thorne is also just a rather good fantasy artist, but this book would for various reasons only last 15 issues.

NOw let's move back to Conan, it's important to remember that Conan was ONE OF MARVEL'S BIGGEST titles at the time and helmed both an ongoing book and a black and white magazine, later he would get another ongoing too, Red Sonja would also get several series.

Conan would also get a movie, and that movie is a huge one but I'm also not going to be talking about it much.....anyway I will let you figure out what is best in life.

Now Conan being popular meant that people got interested in other shit connected to it, so Sonja was picked to get her own movie and this is where we get into the legal troubles with the character.

The Howard estate decided to put the ownership of the character into the Red Sonja LLC, this was to help make it easier for her to be licensed as a character for various things. Also the movie made her look like this.....wow this is a bad look.

I think the Colors just make her generic and I just feel like she could be an extra. Okay Moving on from that, the movie was planned to have Conan in it but they gave him a different name because I imagine of that whole LLC thing.....dear god.

Anyway because of this movie Sonja would get more comics, but they didn't last long she wore this look for a couple years, still rather revealing but not as over the top as the bikini.

Red Sonja would continue to appear in Conan and various other connected places at Marvel. She would also guest star in What if and other comics....in fact lets talk about her most fun crossover.

MARVEL TEAM UP 79 BABY! IT'S A CHRIS CLAREMONT JOHN BYRNE ISSUE AND IT IS AT MAXIMUM BRONZE AGE AWESOME.

Now you might be asking do they make a joke about Mary Jane....well here's what happens, she tag along with Peter on a job and finds a magic sword....and when she holds aloft that Magic Sword....YEAH RED SONJA POSSESSES MARY JANE AND SHE TEAMS UP WITH PETER.

Spider-man and her team up to fight Kulah Gath, and take him out. This story weirdly enough would get follow ups. Several.....follow ups.

This would get a sequel in X-men where Gath comes back and turns New York into a fantasy style place and he takes revenge on Spider-man by.....keeping him the only Normal one in this place. CURSE YOU GATH FOR DENYING A BARBARIAN SPIDER-MAN!

Moving on from that Marvel would lose the rights to both Conan and Red Sonja in the late 90's, Marvel was going through a lot(BANKRUPTCY!) and so let the rights lapse and they would end up both at different companies.

See the LLC was kept up with and the Conan stuff was bought by another company, so Red is a character in the Conan setting but can't use Conan. This is fun isn't it.

Sonja would be separated from Conan besides the occasional reprint or crossover, Conan would end up in Dark Horse while she in the early 2000 would end up with Dynamite. I never get to talk about them much so time to indulge.

Dynamite has very few actual original comics mostly being some form of adapting other media, so they are kind of a grift company, also a bit sleezy in places.

I'm going to cut to the chase here but Dynamite played HARD to the T and A crowd, it had nude cover variants, sexy cosplay variants, and other things and it's one of the things the Kept Dynamite afloat.

Now time to get to the part of the thread everyone is going to have opinions on, Sonja would get various mini's, ongoings but the biggest press she would get would be when....Gail Simone came onto her book.

Now several of my mutual have had it out with Gail...for reasons. But I have enjoyed her work, I love her Birds of Pray run, I think Secret Six is awesome, her deadpool great, Welcome to tranquility is an underrated gem....that said, she is not perfect.

Look Gail has issues as a creator like anyone else, I find her Batgirl to be a slog at best, I don't worship her work. That said Red Sonja I did like aspects but it is flawed in certain ways.

Her Sonja is this, what if Red Sonja was just a female Conan? Yeah I know she kind of is but what if she liked slept with everyone, was dirty and uncouth....all that Jazz and if your a long time fan this will be like wha?

Look it can be funny and everything but it mean that the book is more like a commentary on her, I enjoyed aspects of it, but the book has points where you feel like your reading an article over an actual story.

the book went over well with critics and some others, but yeah it wasn't everyones thing but it did give dynamite some attention and Gail was constantly put on more projects related to her. This brings us too....

Swords of Sorrow, this crossover of the T and A character would allow them to be rebooted into a new version, meant as a last hurrah this would allow these character to reinvented for the next generation. Nothing could go WRONG!

Now Red Sonja would get another book and a redesign reboot with Marguerite Bennett who is basically a writer like Gail Simone but all her worst traits are dialed up to 11. Okay now you might not know her. But you know her work.

People who have followed me a long time might remember this page and the hell it brought me for like a week. She co-wrote this by the way.

This page was shared to hell for a while and yes she wrote this page. But her most infamous panel.....well uh yeah I'm going to share that....

this one....yeah she wrote this......

so as you can CLEARLY TELL BY THE TONE I'M SETTING UP Red Sonja was in good hands.

Bennett's run at best is just a lamer Gail Simone run. Much less dark and trying to be more girl power. It's never come together because Bennetts big problem is just how unfocused she is, she moves from thing to thing.

but the reason the book ultimately failed was trying to take out the T and A audience. Dynamite tried to go the tumblr crowd and it didn't work, no one bought the books and the T and A people just put their money into zenscope books instead.

the book also didn't get a lot of attention from any audience, just disinterest, ultimately the books would go back to shilling t and a after this very BRIEF experiment was done.

Red Sonja would get writer Amy Chu and she would have things more or less back to basics. It works for most people and the book is able to keep a consistent base at least.

I get what people want these books to be, but I also feel like you can't just appeal to everyone and also people don't always want their books to be a commentary on a franchise, they just want to read something fun.

Red Sonja chugs along in comics for good or for ill, and doesn't seem to be stopping but there is news of that movie. Whatever the case Sonja is still around.

A new Sonja movie has been in development hell for years. I can remember hearing rumors about it in HIGH SCHOOL, and the like, it's been a long road and what is left to say on the character?

Red Sonja is iconic, for some it's for the wrong reasons, but at the same time people remember, Conan made several attempts to replace her in comics, and this She Devil with a Sword doesn't seem to be going anywhere. That fiery passion will never burn out.

Also can't we move one from trying to add commentary to the armor, most deceptions of Conan have that man Shirtless, it it bothers you I kind of get it, but dear lord I already heard every joke about 3 times.

I'm just saying, Red Sonja is only one example and maybe you should try to promote a female hero you like better rather then just tear down a character meant to be a fun barbarian adventure character. Just saying.