Love this ๐งต
I'm of a slightly older vintage when we used to write down our questions in a notebook to ask at the Boat Club sessions. Must ask mom to bring those notebooks if she can find them. I never threw them away so they should be somewhere in our Pune house.
I'm of a slightly older vintage when we used to write down our questions in a notebook to ask at the Boat Club sessions. Must ask mom to bring those notebooks if she can find them. I never threw them away so they should be somewhere in our Pune house.
https://twitter.com/surajmenon/status/1505515708947771392
Heh, this reminds of this time a few years ago when I returned to COEP to do an open quiz, and I came with printed elims sheets and people were like, how very charmingly old school, paper elims. Made me feel so old. ๐๐
https://twitter.com/surajmenon/status/1505518062837329924?t=z4iiXGFehUVIyHGT_UKAig&s=19
There was a quizzer in COEP who used to write down every single question anyone asked at any boat club session or a college quiz in a big notebook. And would "prepare" from it before every quiz elim. He very rarely made it to the finals.
We all used to ridicule this practice. ๐
We all used to ridicule this practice. ๐
Looking back, I cringe at how we used to mock him, saying memorization isn't enough for open quizzing, of course with the "just joking yaar".
And then we would sit around wondering why quizzing is such a niche pursuit and didn't draw too many participants.
We were the answer.
And then we would sit around wondering why quizzing is such a niche pursuit and didn't draw too many participants.
We were the answer.
This guy, from a small town iirc, used to diligently document questions, re-read them. Valid strategy. India's "open quizzing" is not really very open. It usually draws from a well of limited topics that urban elites follow. So many things get repeated. Like Jeopardy.
But those of us who just showed up and made it to the finals would then smirk about how he came to every quiz with his notebook but was always in the audience, never on the stage.
@quatrainman & @bvhk played a huge role in making Pune quizzing a more welcoming scene in the 00s.
@quatrainman & @bvhk played a huge role in making Pune quizzing a more welcoming scene in the 00s.
On a personal level, I have nothing but fond memories of my quizzing days and I wouldn't trade them for anything. But if I could get a do-over, I would try to be kinder & genuinely inclusive, instead of the gatekeeping mentality that drives a lot of Indian quizzing.
You really can divide Pune quizzing into the before Ramanand & after Ramanand eras. Once he became the "elder" of the scene, especially after winning BBC Mastermind India, he used his powers for good. Pune quizzing was extremely toxic before that. Actively heckling young quizzers
Not that Ramanand was able to get rid of all the structural and cultural problems, but he did make a big difference.
When I was in first year (and Ramanand in 2nd), the previous "elders" would literally throw stones at you if they didn't like your question. As a "joke" but still
When I was in first year (and Ramanand in 2nd), the previous "elders" would literally throw stones at you if they didn't like your question. As a "joke" but still
Some of us were pugnacious enough and also privileged enough to give it back. Especially the English medium educated brahmin crowd from cities. Like in the movie Brahman Naman.
But a lot of people, especially women, were put off and chose other kinder activities to join.
But a lot of people, especially women, were put off and chose other kinder activities to join.
In the past, @pjux and @udupendra have done threads on the problematic, misogynist, elitist elements of India's "open quizzing" culture. We need more of those from more quizzers.
Illustrative anecdote from 1998/99
I was in 1st year of college at COEP, and had been an active quizzer in school. In one of my first "sets" on the Boat Club asked "Which 1960s classic movie has a 14 word name?"
The then "elder" immediately sat up and gave me a mocking smile.
I was in 1st year of college at COEP, and had been an active quizzer in school. In one of my first "sets" on the Boat Club asked "Which 1960s classic movie has a 14 word name?"
The then "elder" immediately sat up and gave me a mocking smile.
"14 words or 13 words?" he asked in that sweet voice that suggests a trap.
I counted in my head - Dr Strangelove or how I learned to stop worrying and start loving the bomb.
"14 words" I confidently said.
"Have you seen the movie?" he condescendingly asked
"A few years ago"
I counted in my head - Dr Strangelove or how I learned to stop worrying and start loving the bomb.
"14 words" I confidently said.
"Have you seen the movie?" he condescendingly asked
"A few years ago"
"How many Kubrick movies have you seen? Do you even know who Kubrick is?" he went on.
Put on the spot, I first got nervous. But y'all know me. Pugnacious type. Plus the cishet brahmin male uber confidence. I replied,
"Who is asking the questions? You or me?"
He backed off!
Put on the spot, I first got nervous. But y'all know me. Pugnacious type. Plus the cishet brahmin male uber confidence. I replied,
"Who is asking the questions? You or me?"
He backed off!
He was right, factually. It is indeed 13 words.
Dr Strangelove or how I learned to stop worrying and LOVE the bomb (not start loving).
The thing is, tho I had seen the movie years before, that question had come from a recent game of charades (aka dumb charades in India).
Dr Strangelove or how I learned to stop worrying and LOVE the bomb (not start loving).
The thing is, tho I had seen the movie years before, that question had come from a recent game of charades (aka dumb charades in India).
So I thought it was 14 words. There were no smartphones. Internet was new and expensive and slow. I confidently made the question. And just by being outspoken, shut down the condescending pushback early.
And then suddenly the elder started being nice to me after that!
And then suddenly the elder started being nice to me after that!
The elder was not a default nasty guy as I realized after we became friends. He was just a 21 year old thinking that's how quizzing is fun. With verbal jousting and trading insults. And trying to "teach" an 18 year old "how things really work". Standard rationale for hazing.
But for every me or Ramanand or daddy_san who fought back and got "promoted" to the cliques, there were dozens others (especially women) who were put off by this unnecessary hostility and hubris. Over just answering random trivia questions. And they never returned to quizzing.
Things are noticeably better in that regard in Indian quizzing today than a generation ago. But still a long way to go.
And Indian quizzing still leans towards the habits and also interests of us privileged dudes. And rewards being aggressive & ultra confident, rather than nice.
And Indian quizzing still leans towards the habits and also interests of us privileged dudes. And rewards being aggressive & ultra confident, rather than nice.
The Pune I grew up in had a very active school quizzing scene, and the participants there were generally 50-50 boys & girls.
By college, and later, it was like 95% male.
People thought it was a problem with women, when it was a problem with us. And the randomly macho culture.
By college, and later, it was like 95% male.
People thought it was a problem with women, when it was a problem with us. And the randomly macho culture.
Oh yes, as one of my women classmates put it, "So many of us girls in this college feel safer practicing punt formation or theatre at midnight, going home at 2 AM, than at these aggro quiz sessions at noon. Think about that."
https://twitter.com/yashot/status/1505540420276731909?t=F6kIu0XazuyXbHXZOgonUQ&s=19
True. Even one of the most widely respected such contests, Jeopardy, which I love, often turns on very specific interests like Civil War, Broadway, Bible, College football, world geography, and knowing how some tricky formats work from years of viewing
https://twitter.com/cricketingview/status/1505544574579937283?t=S0L-OPaw3H-t90K-p6R5ZA&s=19
This is an example.
"stage 2" format was something I was so obsessed with! I once made a "stage 3" quiz! Much like Suraj, I used to think it was so clever! I don't, now.
Why I feel so smart cracking Before & After qns watching Jeopardy. Momentarily.
"stage 2" format was something I was so obsessed with! I once made a "stage 3" quiz! Much like Suraj, I used to think it was so clever! I don't, now.
Why I feel so smart cracking Before & After qns watching Jeopardy. Momentarily.
https://twitter.com/surajmenon/status/1505518598890323971?t=JCTz7pdsa4bVXDE2RfUoNA&s=19
"Stage 2" is when answers to a set of questions are then clues for an overall answer.
"Before and After" on Jeopardy is when it's a 3 word answer that is actually two 2 word answers with one in common.
Both are cool formats to solve on your own, like a crossword or Wordle.
"Before and After" on Jeopardy is when it's a 3 word answer that is actually two 2 word answers with one in common.
Both are cool formats to solve on your own, like a crossword or Wordle.
While both those formats are fun cognitive challenges, they do kind of come with a pre-loaded advantage. If you've done those esoteric formats before, you are much more likely to answer them than someone who's doing them for the first time.
Why I first hated "Before & After"
Why I first hated "Before & After"
Lemme show how Jeopardy B&A format works by just making a legit one up right now.
"Should've been a cowboy" you say? Don't "Take it so hard"!
----
If you've never seen the format, you'll be like WTF?
If you have, you'll go,
Toby Keith Richards.
1st is a TK song, 2nd is KR.
"Should've been a cowboy" you say? Don't "Take it so hard"!
----
If you've never seen the format, you'll be like WTF?
If you have, you'll go,
Toby Keith Richards.
1st is a TK song, 2nd is KR.
It takes a few tries to "get" the concept. But once you do get it, the more you experience it, the more your edge is.
"Stage 2" is similar. It is usually dominated by people who have done stage 2 type quizzes before, so the heuristics for how to solve it is pre-loaded for them.
"Stage 2" is similar. It is usually dominated by people who have done stage 2 type quizzes before, so the heuristics for how to solve it is pre-loaded for them.
If an esoteric quiz question format is inherently loaded in favor of those who have solved it many many times before, that is *NOT* a level playing field. It's not that the winner is necessarily "smarter". Winner is someone with a functioning brain who's done it often before.
That's why in India, quizzing is very much loaded in favor of cishet urban brahmin males & their interests.
Set a quiz on random ancient Pink Floyd lyrics & you'll be designated "western music stud". Set one on Rihanna or Beyonce lyrics and you'll be ridiculed as an airhead.
Set a quiz on random ancient Pink Floyd lyrics & you'll be designated "western music stud". Set one on Rihanna or Beyonce lyrics and you'll be ridiculed as an airhead.
On pretty much any objective measure, Ri & Bey are more talented, profound, impactful, and overall awesome as musical acts than this old British band from 50 years ago.
But in Indian quizzing, a Lemonade quiz will be ridiculed & a The Wall quiz treated like genius.
But in Indian quizzing, a Lemonade quiz will be ridiculed & a The Wall quiz treated like genius.
After a couple of months of watching Jeopardy, once I got familiar with the format, I could start 'cracking" those Before&After clues within seconds. Friends with me were impressed. It wasn't really that impressive. I was just now in the favored 'in-group" for those questions.
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