Share this page!

polynya Profile picture
Twitter logo
Apr 21 • 5 tweets • 3 min read
Generally, I think there's enough awareness about rollups now, so I don't feel the desire to write

However, I do feel the hypothesis that the endgame is not smart contract rollups, but rather application-specific zk rollups composing to a settlement zk rollup is underexplored
Must read: hackmd.io/@kalmanlajko/r…
Catching up to #LayerTwoAmsterdam, here's @_bfarmer's take on the topic (see timestamp, streameth.tv/event/l2-amste…) Image
Another talk about this topic by @ukolodny

zkSync is planning to release an SDK so anyone deploy build their own L3 zkSyncs - including private variants

At this point, deploying an execution layer will become just as easy as deploying a smart contract, all the while being secured by Ethereum

reddit.com/r/CryptoCurren…

• • •

Missing some Tweet in this thread? You can try to force a refresh
　

Keep Current with polynya

polynya Profile picture

Stay in touch and get notified when new unrolls are available from this author!

Read all threads

This Thread may be Removed Anytime!

PDF

Twitter may remove this content at anytime! Save it as PDF for later use!

Try unrolling a thread yourself!

how to unroll video
  1. Follow @ThreadReaderApp to mention us!

  2. From a Twitter thread mention us with a keyword "unroll"
@threadreaderapp unroll

Practice here first or read more on our help page!

More from @epolynya

polynya Profile picture
Apr 22
The case against smart contract chains:

- They are very complicated
- Each app must share state and resource pricing: expensive
- Each app must compromise to fit the VM
- MEV means any smart contract chain with sufficient financial activity will always be very expensive
Still, in 2014, this was a necessary innovation and the only way to do financial interoperability and composability, and without using highly insecure bridges.

It's 2022, and there's now a better way emerging - application-specific recursive zk rollups.
Today, dYdX has the highest $ volumes of any dapp, with the 3rd highest protocol revenues of any crypto project behind only Ethereum and OpenSea. Immutable X does more NFT transactions than any chain & is behind only Ethereum on $ volumes. Sorare has the largest raise in crypto.
Read 16 tweets
polynya Profile picture
Apr 21
This is the most interestingly novel solution I've seen in the modular stack in a very long time!

DataLayr is a DA layer based on danksharding that attempts to leverage the security of ETH instead of a new token, and is live on internal testnet

The obvious disadvantage of an alt-DA layer (like Celestia, Polygon Avail or zkPorter) is you are adding a new trust assumption with a new protocol with a new token that may take years/decades to build up security to the same order of magnitude as Bitcoin or Ethereum.
A subset of ETH stakers (there's potentially hundreds of billions of dollars economic security available!) can "restake" their ETH (and even staking derivatives like stETH) via EigenLayr, which AFAIU is a set of smart contracts on Ethereum
Read 12 tweets
polynya Profile picture
Apr 21
Defining "modular blockchain" by @musalbas

I'll suggest a further condition: settlement and data availability should be separated sharing a consensus layer. E.g. Ethereum is not a "modular blockchain" till EIP-4844 rolls out

Also believe the history layer will be important ImageImage
@musalbas I personally prefer "one module of the modular blockchain stack"

And "modular blockchain" being one chain which has all components modularized but enshrined (e.g. what Tezos is doing with enshrined rollups and enshrined DA layer)

Of course, I'll go with the popular consensus
@musalbas It's important to understand the different security implications and trust assumptions for each modular construction. Ceteris paribus, enshrined rollups > secured rollups > sovereign rollups > validiums > honest minority sidechains (Arbitrum AnyTrust) >>>> monolithic etc.
Read 4 tweets
polynya Profile picture
Mar 20
Tx fees for AMM swaps right now:

zkSync: $0.10
BSC: $0.37
Avalanche C: $0.39
Ethereum: $4.55
Optimism: $0.28 (<$0.20 with ZipSwap)
Arbitrum One: $0.75
Fantom: $0.02
Polygon PoS: $0.006
Ronin: $0.00
Loopring: $0.00*
Solana: $0.002**
Cardano: $0.86***
Terra: $0.09
dYdX: $0.014^
Sources (I picked the simple swaps):

arbiscan.io/tx/0xe4a98467c…
snowtrace.io/tx/0x575a08e92…
optimistic.etherscan.io/tx/0xb94508c11…
ftmscan.com/tx/0x823101294…
polygonscan.com/tx/0x9bb3b46a7…
bscscan.com/tx/0x24f645805…
solscan.io/tx/5SwaXcZ32Pr…
finder.terra.money/columbus-5/tx/…
cardanoscan.io/transaction/82…
zkscan.io/explorer/trans…
Notes:

*You just pay trading fees of 0.28%; however, there's a minimum order, so effectively min $0.25 tx+trading fee
**AFAIK Solana doesn't have a congestion market yet, so real tx fees once all transactions are included will be higher
***Cardano explorers are terrible, unsure
Read 14 tweets
polynya Profile picture
Mar 18
Some clarifications for this:

- L1 calldata can be up to ~930 kB per block, 10 kB is not the limit. It may be ~10 kB now because that's all the demand there is now.

- EIP-4844 introduces a dedicated space for rollup data (though it can be any non-state sequential data)
- This comes with a new transaction type and EIP-1559-style fee market dedicated to rollup data. So, the fees will reset to ~negligible till the new market is saturated. I expect the minimum gas fee to persist till that happens. At ~1 gas/byte (rounding off EIP-4844 specs)...
...and assuming a minimum gas price of 7 wei per EIP-1559 specs, and a standard 16 byte transaction, this is:

$0.0000000000003 per transaction

This is the cost rollups have to pay to settle on Ethereum, but users will in most likelihood pay much more.
Read 12 tweets
polynya Profile picture
Mar 4
While DAS remains highly misunderstood and underrated, what you should know is that data capacity is not going to be the bottleneck for much longer

The medium-term bottlenecks will be squarely on the execution layer - i.e. how much computation a rollup can process
While this report is highly flawed and seems to be oblivious to the wonders of DAS, what it does show is that monolithic execution layers are heavily limited, and can only scale up to a 200-300 TPS for mildly complex stuff like AMM swaps.

Rollups can go farther because you have a) far lower overhead for syncing between nodes, and b) have snapshots readily constructable from the base layer. Two pieces of evidence that EVM optimistic rollups can theoretically get to >4,000 TPS for swaps:

Read 6 tweets

Did Thread Reader help you today?

Support us! We are indie developers!

This site is made by just two indie developers on a laptop doing marketing, support and development! Read more about the story.

Become a Premium Member ($3/month or $30/year) and get exclusive features!

Become Premium

Don't want to be a Premium member but still want to support us?

Make a small donation by buying us coffee ($5) or help with server cost ($10)

Donate via Paypal

Or Donate anonymously using crypto!

Ethereum

0xfe58350B80634f60Fa6Dc149a72b4DFbc17D341E copy

Bitcoin

3ATGMxNzCUFzxpMCHL5sWSt4DVtS8UqXpi copy

Thank you for your support!

Follow Us on Twitter!

:(