Thread by @MSS3RosaFerreum

@Hils50347032 No fewer hours worked and that includes unpaid domestic work, too.

It appears that you are unfamiliar with the #GenderedLaborGap and need to be educated. Allow me to introduce you to some of the data.

@Hils50347032 If you add up both the unpaid labor and paid labor, on average, men work more total time than women creating a #GenderedLaborGap pursuant to (as an example) the @BLS_gov's 2017 American Time Use Survey (bls.gov/news.release/a…) and @pewresearch's data (pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018…).

@Hils50347032 @BLS_gov @pewresearch According to the @BLS_gov, "[o]n the days they worked, employed men worked 49 minutes more than employed women. … However, even among full-time workers (those usually working 35 hours or more per week), men worked more per day than women—8.4 hours, compared with 7.9 hours."

@Hils50347032 @BLS_gov @pewresearch Pursuant to @BLS_gov data in the American Time Use Survey, the average man is getting the equivalent of over 26½ (8-hour) days of experience more than the average woman is getting on the job (bls.gov/news.release/a…, p. 2).

This adds up fast!

@Hils50347032 @BLS_gov @pewresearch Now, looking only at full-time workers, pursuant to @BLS_gov data in the American Time Use Survey, the average man is getting the equivalent of over 16 (8-hour) days of experience more than the average woman is getting on the job (bls.gov/news.release/a…, p. 2).

@Hils50347032 @BLS_gov @pewresearch Dividing the total hours worked into 8-hour workdays, using the @BLS_gov data from the American Time Use Survey, it's almost as if men (on average) are working nearly 12½ months a year to women's less than 12 (bls.gov/news.release/a…, p. 2).

Albeit slower, this adds up fast.

@Hils50347032 @BLS_gov @pewresearch American Time Use Survey (with 2017 as an example) shows that women on average are not spending enough more time with their kids, doing chores, or anything else to explain women's lack of time working.

On average, men just work more in America (considering both paid and unpaid).

@Hils50347032 @BLS_gov @pewresearch Let's do the math:

Table 8A, column 1: Men: Women:
Household activities: 1.31 2.34
Caring for household: 1.01 1.85
Work-related activities: 5.46 3.37
==========
Total: 7.78 7.56

@Hils50347032 @BLS_gov @pewresearch Now comparing the men from Table 8B to the women from Table 8C (where the youngest child is under 6):

Women care for and help household members 2.08 more hours per day than men in the most extreme case presented by Table 8A, but men work 6.43 hours more per day than women.

@Hils50347032 @BLS_gov @pewresearch Similarly, comparing the men from Table 8B to the women from Table 8C (where the youngest child is under 6), women do household activities for 1.91 more hours per day than men in the most extreme case presented by Table 8A, but, again, men work 6.43 hours more per day than women.

@Hils50347032 @BLS_gov @pewresearch Let's do the math: Men: Women:
Household activities: 1.26 3.17
Caring for household: 1.42 3.36
Work-related activities: 6.57 0.00
==========
Total: 9.25 6.53

Who is working more?

@Hils50347032 @BLS_gov @pewresearch By comparing the men from Table 8B to the women from Table 8C (using the youngest child under 6 column), we see the situation where women are unemployed and spending the most time caring not only for the children but the whole family.

@Hils50347032 @BLS_gov @pewresearch Other @BLS_gov data (see below) indicates that 61% of families have both parents employed (bls.gov/opub/ted/2017/…), but does not indicate whether the mothers are working full-time or part-time.

The American Time Use Survey does have an answer in Table 8B.

Let's check that out.

@Hils50347032 @BLS_gov @pewresearch Let's do the math:

Table 8B, column 1: Men: Women:
Household activities: 1.23 1.90
Caring for household: 0.93 1.52
Work-related activities: 6.35 5.01
===========
Total: 8.51 8.43

@Hils50347032 @BLS_gov @pewresearch Maybe women are forced to stay home with their kids and that causes the gap. If true, women with no kids should be working the same amount as men in the workforce as there is no reason not to since there is no reason to be on call and no extra household or childcare duties.

@Hils50347032 @BLS_gov @pewresearch Let's do that math:

Table 8A, column 4: Men: Women:
Household activities: 1.54 2.21
Caring for household: 0.07 0.07
Work-related activities: 4.11 2.83
===========
Total: 5.72 5.11

@Hils50347032 @BLS_gov @pewresearch Consider just workers:

Table 8B, column 4: Men: Women:
Household activities: 1.34 1.80
Caring for household: 0.04 0.05
Work-related activities: 6.17 5.29
===========
Total: 7.55 7.14

@Hils50347032 @BLS_gov @pewresearch Whether you consider all currently childless folks (Table 8A) or just the ones working (Table 8B), women spend less time on paid labor and related activities and women spend less time working considering both unpaid domestic labor and paid labor added together. The pattern holds.

@Hils50347032 @BLS_gov @pewresearch Moreover, homemaking is not usually physically demanding work (unlike the paid labor many men do that women typically do not).

See, Women Workers and Women at Home Are Equally Inactive: NHANES 2003–2006 (available at ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/P…).

@Hils50347032 @BLS_gov @pewresearch "Women spent most of their day in sedentary (~55%) and light (~32%) activity, with limited lifestyle (~11%) and moderate vigorous physical activity (MVPA) (~2%), and there were no differences between the homemakers and [employed women]" (ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/P…).

@Hils50347032 @BLS_gov @pewresearch "A recent study conducted by the PEW Research Center found that stay-at-home mothers reported spending more time on childcare, housework, leisure activities, and sleep more than working mothers" (ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/P…).

@Hils50347032 @BLS_gov @pewresearch Table 8A of the @BLS_gov’s 2019 American Time Use Survey (bls.gov/news.release/a…) demonstrates that this #GenderedLaborGap continues to be a problem. It is not just something that existed as a freak accident of statistics in 2017.

@Hils50347032 @BLS_gov @pewresearch 2019:
Table 8A, column 1: Men: Women:
Household activities: 1.28 2.33
Caring for household: 0.95 1.80
Work-related activities: 5.72 3.35
==========
Total: 7.95 7.48

@Hils50347032 @BLS_gov @pewresearch "[O]nce we control only for one variable—hours worked—and compare men and women both working 40-hours per week in 2017, more than one-third of the raw 18.2% pay gap reported by the BLS disappears" (fee.org/articles/a-new…).

@Hils50347032 @BLS_gov @pewresearch Did you know that “unmarried, childless women under 30 who live in cities” already out-earn men pursuant to @TIME Magazine (content.time.com/time/business/…), @usnews & World Report (usnews.com/debate-club/sh…), and @PolitiFact's @PunditFact (politifact.com/punditfact/sta…)?

@Hils50347032 @BLS_gov @pewresearch @TIME @usnews @PolitiFact @PunditFact "What’s especially interesting is that women working 35-39 hours per week [in 2017] earned 107% of men’s earnings for those weekly hours, i.e., there was a 7% gender earnings gap in favor of female workers for that cohort" (fee.org/articles/a-new…).

@Hils50347032 @BLS_gov @pewresearch @TIME @usnews @PolitiFact @PunditFact Women being less productive than men (and that contributing to the pay gap) is apparently not news.

@LexyTopping writes "[m]en should work less and their employers and the government should help them to do so in order to close the gender pay gap" (theguardian.com/world/2018/may…).

@Hils50347032 @BLS_gov @pewresearch @TIME @usnews @PolitiFact @PunditFact @LexyTopping On page 5 of _The State of Pay: Demystifying the Gender Pay Gap_ (May 2018), Institute for Public Policy Research writes as part of their 3rd recommendation that "[c]hanging men’s working behaviour is a crucial component of closing the gender pay gap" (ippr.org/files/2018-05/…).

@Hils50347032 @BLS_gov @pewresearch @TIME @usnews @PolitiFact @PunditFact @LexyTopping "To reduce the gender stratification of full and part-time roles, and reduce the maternity penalty, employers could… introduce dedicated, paid paternity leave…, to advertise roles as flexible by default, and to encourage men to partake in job share arrangements." Id., p. 5.

@Hils50347032 @BLS_gov @pewresearch @TIME @usnews @PolitiFact @PunditFact @LexyTopping The @IPPR continues stating that the pay gap "doesn’t take into account any of the drivers of different pay levels, such as age, qualifications, experience or seniority, or type of work" (ippr.org/files/2018-05/…, p. 6).

@Hils50347032 @BLS_gov @pewresearch @TIME @usnews @PolitiFact @PunditFact @LexyTopping @IPPR "As such, a firm-level gender pay gap does not indicate discriminatory practices, and is not unlawful" (ippr.org/files/2018-05/…, p. 6).

Let's go over your supposedly opposing evidence, @Hils50347032, to see if it actually refutes the above, shall we?

@Hils50347032 @BLS_gov @pewresearch @TIME @usnews @PolitiFact @PunditFact @LexyTopping @IPPR When writing "Seriously enough just go away[;] You are arrogant and condescending" (archive.ph/hee58), you cite the World Economic Forum article entitled "Women are more productive than men, according to new research" (weforum.org/agenda/2018/10…).

@Hils50347032 @BLS_gov @pewresearch @TIME @usnews @PolitiFact @PunditFact @LexyTopping @IPPR The World Economic Forum asserts that "[a]ccording to Hive, women work 10 percent harder than men in today's offices" (weforum.org/agenda/2018/10…) based on apparently nonexistent research per the link included in the World Economic Forum article (bigthink.com/women%20are%20…).

@Hils50347032 @BLS_gov @pewresearch @TIME @usnews @PolitiFact @PunditFact @LexyTopping @IPPR The World Economic Forum article bases some of the assertions therein on a survey of 3,000 women and men in Hive’s workspaces.

The Department of Labor (via the Census Bureau) interviewed 10,200 individuals in 2017 and 9,400 individuals in 2019 with similar results between years.

@Hils50347032 @BLS_gov @pewresearch @TIME @usnews @PolitiFact @PunditFact @LexyTopping @IPPR The World Economic Forum is attempting to generalize the experience at the Hive workspaces to all workplaces. (Hive is a project management platform.)

The Department of Labor is trying to get an accurate snapshot of America through a representative sample of the population.

@Hils50347032 @BLS_gov @pewresearch @TIME @usnews @PolitiFact @PunditFact @LexyTopping @IPPR It seems that the assertions in the World Economic Forum article are poorly supported.

@Hils50347032, you cite another World Economic Forum article by way of screenshot with no link (archive.ph/wip/tC7l4).

Do women work longer than men?

The 🇺🇸 Department of Labor says no.

@Hils50347032 @BLS_gov @pewresearch @TIME @usnews @PolitiFact @PunditFact @LexyTopping @IPPR World Economic Forum article entitled "Do women work longer hours than men?" (weforum.org/agenda/2015/11…) uses a global data set while the 🇺🇸 Department of Labor focuses on the United States of America.

The article did not link to what specific data supported the figures cited.

@Hils50347032 @BLS_gov @pewresearch @TIME @usnews @PolitiFact @PunditFact @LexyTopping @IPPR Maybe in ¬🇺🇸 women work more than men, but in 🇺🇸 men work more than women even when unpaid domestic labor is considered (bls.gov/news.release/a…; bls.gov/news.release/a…). The 🇺🇸Department of Labor (@USDOL) has been doing American Time Use Surveys since 2003 with similar results.

@Hils50347032 @BLS_gov @pewresearch @TIME @usnews @PolitiFact @PunditFact @LexyTopping @IPPR @USDOL Well, @Hils50347032, you assert that there are "[d]ifferent sources all saying the same thing[; w]omen work more" (archive.ph/IMiIi) linking to this article (weforum.org/agenda/2017/06…). Yet, you seem to cite the same unsupported source, the World Economic Forum.

@Hils50347032 @BLS_gov @pewresearch @TIME @usnews @PolitiFact @PunditFact @LexyTopping @IPPR @USDOL The article "It's official: women work nearly an hour longer than men every day" bases its data on an OECD study of 29 countries — which includes education as "paid work," which inflates the amount of time doing "paid" work by women for work that doesn't actually pay.

@Hils50347032 @BLS_gov @pewresearch @TIME @usnews @PolitiFact @PunditFact @LexyTopping @IPPR @USDOL Similarly, the cited OECD study inflates the numbers of unpaid work by including "volunteering" (which may not be related to the care of household members), "shopping" (which may include pleasure purchasing and "retail therapy"), and "other unpaid activities."

@Hils50347032 @BLS_gov @pewresearch @TIME @usnews @PolitiFact @PunditFact @LexyTopping @IPPR @USDOL The OECD record-keeping is inferior to the 🇺🇸 Department of Labor American Time Use Survey in that you can't remove problematic inclusions from the data set to get a real idea of how much "labor" (paid or unpaid) is actually being done.

@Hils50347032 @BLS_gov @pewresearch @TIME @usnews @PolitiFact @PunditFact @LexyTopping @IPPR @USDOL Then @Hils50347032 (archive.ph/0hLHa) cites a BBC article entitled "[w]omen working more paid hours as men work less" (bbc.com/news/business-…), which references, but doesn't link, to a Resolution Foundation study finding that 🇬🇧 men are doing fewer paid hours than women.

@Hils50347032 @BLS_gov @pewresearch @TIME @usnews @PolitiFact @PunditFact @LexyTopping @IPPR @USDOL The BBC article referencing a Resolution Foundation study regarding 🇬🇧 men and women does not refute the data in the 🇺🇸 Department of Labor American Time Use Survey regarding 🇺🇸 men and women.

🇬🇧 is part of ¬🇺🇸.

Apparently, in this regard, 🇬🇧 is different than 🇺🇸.

@Hils50347032 @BLS_gov @pewresearch @TIME @usnews @PolitiFact @PunditFact @LexyTopping @IPPR @USDOL Lastly, @Hils50347032, you write "[n]o[,] you pompous uptight man" (archive.ph/jmoX0) citing a Guardian article entitled "Women do 21 hours more unpaid work than men a week, national survey finds" (theguardian.com/australia-news…).

This article is about 🇦🇺, which is part of ¬🇺🇸.

@Hils50347032 @BLS_gov @pewresearch @TIME @usnews @PolitiFact @PunditFact @LexyTopping @IPPR @USDOL The Guardian article doesn't link to the underlying Household, Income and Labour Dynamics in Australia (Hilda) survey upon which it relies.

@Hils50347032 @BLS_gov @pewresearch @TIME @usnews @PolitiFact @PunditFact @LexyTopping @IPPR @USDOL The Guardian article doesn't define "unpaid labor" with the specificity of the 🇺🇸 Department of Labor (@USDOL) so that like can be compared with like. As with the OECD data, it is important to be able to confirm that one is comparing apples to apples — and not apples to oranges.

@Hils50347032 @BLS_gov @pewresearch @TIME @usnews @PolitiFact @PunditFact @LexyTopping @IPPR @USDOL The Guardian article referencing an 🇦🇺 Hilda study regarding 🇦🇺 men and women does not refute the data in the 🇺🇸 Department of Labor American Time Use Survey regarding 🇺🇸 men and women.

🇦🇺 is part of ¬🇺🇸.

Apparently, in this regard, 🇦🇺 is different than 🇺🇸.

@Hils50347032 @BLS_gov @pewresearch @TIME @usnews @PolitiFact @PunditFact @LexyTopping @IPPR @USDOL Maybe you should consider this, @Hils50347032:

@Hils50347032 @BLS_gov @pewresearch @TIME @usnews @PolitiFact @PunditFact @LexyTopping @IPPR @USDOL @threadreaderapp, please unroll.

@Hils50347032 @BLS_gov @pewresearch @TIME @usnews @PolitiFact @PunditFact @LexyTopping @IPPR @USDOL @threader, please compile.