Thread by @Tim_Bousquet

Good morning. I'm at the proceedings of the Mass Casualty Commission. Today, Darren Campbell will be cross-examined by 8 lawyers representing participants, mostly victims' families. You can avoid this likely long testimony by muting the hashtag #MCC

The first lawyer is Rob Pineo, with Patterson Law, who has about 2 hours worth of questioning. #MCC

Discussion is about Campbell not having a "scribe," which is the person who writes down everything going on to make sure nothing gets lost. Incident Commander Jeff West had one on April 18/19, but Campbell never had one #MCC

Pineo is asking because at some point after the murders — maybe a year later? — Campbell put together a timeline of events #MCC

Here's the start of the timeline Campbell created. Pineo says West did NOT tell Campbell it was a possible domestic dispute #MCC

Pineo: Lisa McCully's remains were not found until 10:59pm. Campbell: she wasn't identified as Lisa McCully when she was found. #MCC

Pineo: it was Cst. Dave Lily who first named Lisa McCully. Campbell: I don't know who first named McCully #MCC

Pineo is suggesting that the police response to a domestic dispute would be narrower than something not characterized as domestic — that is, they'd look for the killer outside of Portapique. Campbell says he wasn't involved in that response, you'd have to ask Jeff West #MCC

Pineo points to this entry about an "ex-girlfriend." Campbell agrees that he may not have had that info at the actual time. #MCC

Of the RCMP commanders who have testified so far, Campbell strikes me as the most engaged and intelligent. That's not commenting on what he did on April 18/19, just comparing him to the others, whom I've repeatedly characterized as incurious #MCC

Pineo: why did you become the person at the press conferences? Campbell diplomatically says because he was best informed, but we all know the reality is that Chris Leather, who had done previous press conferences, was a disaster #MCC

Campbell says he would never withhold info at a press conference just because the info would reflect badly on the RCMP #MCC

Pineo is grilling Campbell about his statement in a press conference that the homes in Portapique were a ways off the roads. Campbell essentially says it was a throw-away line meant to convey that it was a rural area. #MCC

Also at a press conference, Campbell said "it's important to note that there's only one way into and out of the community." Campbell says that's what he was told by investigators. #MCC

Pineo asks about the Faulkners, who was in the car behind Andrew and Kate MacDonald. Campbell is at a disadvantage here, because he wasn't a responding officer that night. But it is astonishing that no one took the Faulkers' names or questioned them that night #MCC

Pineo suggests that Campbell's statement at the press conference that first responders provided "life saving" care in Portapique was intended to "glorify" the response. Campbell says there was no intent to deceive. #MCC

Pineo says that when she came out of the woods, Lisa Banfield never said that GW was wearing a police uniform, so when Campbell said she did say that, it was intended to mislead the public #MCC

Pineo says this part of the press conference omits that GW stopped at the PetroCan. Campbell agrees that it does, but he was unaware that had happened #MCC

Pineo says Campbell didn't mention the Onslow fire hall until asked. He agrees, says he didn't know who was in the hall when it was shot up #MCC

Pineo: Besides the 3 charged and the Americans who weren't, were other people investigated? Campbell: yes: Peter Griffon, but that didn't warrant charges #MCC

Pineo: you said he drove through a field, but not on a road in the field. Campbell: it depends on how you classify a road. Pineo: yeah, we've had that debate as well #MCC

Pineo shows a photo of the blueberry field road. Pineo suggests that Campbell was misleading the public by not mentioning the road #MCC

Pineo: you said he left at 10:35, but investigators later changed that to 10:45, and you never corrected the public record. Campbell: we did. Pineo: only after Sarah Ritchie reported it. Campbell: she got the info from us. #MCC

Pineo points to this, and says Dorrington stopped GW in a decommissioned police car in February #MCC

Campbell: "there was no intention to mislead" #MCC

In another press conference, Campbell referred to "family liaison officers" — plural. But there was only one. Campbell: Skipper could have asked for more. Pineo: uh-huh #MCC

So the families of 21 victims had 1 family liaison officer, but, the 21st, Heidi Stevenson's family had 2 family liaison officers. #MCC

Pineo: Lisa Banfield this morning has been discharged from her restorative justice requirements. #MCC

I think this means that there is no longer any legal proceeding against Banfield. It appears that testifying before the #MCC was the primary requirement of the restorative justice process.

Pineo is pointing out small-ish errors in Campbell's press conferences, but has missed the biggest mistake, which was a big screw-up in geography #MCC

As I recall, there was a big geographic mistake on the map being used at the press conference, too, placing a (non-existent) 23rd victim somewhere on Highway 4 northwest of its intersection with Hunter Road. #MCC

It became clear that Campbell didn't really understand the geography of the murders. This doesn't mean he was intentionally meaning to deceive anyone (how would adding an extra murder victim reflect well on the RCMP?), just that he was being given bad info #MCC

Pineo asks Campbell about this from the press conference. Campbell says GW didn't "physically pull over" victims with lights, etc, but the fake police car did play a role in the killing, especially of Heather O'Brien #MCC

Campbell says he never knew Cst. Greg Wiley. At a press conference, he said the gunman didn't have "a special relationship" with anyone in the RCMP. He didn't know about Wiley then, and Campbell says he was responding to allegations that GW was an informant #MCC

Pineo asks if there was enough done for through the family liaison program. Campbell: "I would say no, because if it was good, there would be no complaints." #MCC

Pineo: what were you doing all night? Campbell: I went back to bed, but I wasn't sleeping well, so I got up and went to the office #MCC

Now questioning Pineo is Thomas MacDonald. #MCC

MacDonald is asking about command decisions, and Campbell explains that it was the officers on the ground who were the ground who should make the decisions. #MCC

MacDonald suggests that the second IARD team should've gone in, regardless of the orders not to. I think it's a bit of a stretch. #MCC

MacDonald asks if there has ever been a woman Critical Incident Commander in Nova Scotia. Campbell says there hasn't, but when he came here he asked a qualified woman sergeant to join the program, but she declined #MCC

Campbell says he would have liked the public to have been warned about the fake police car much earlier than was eventually done. "It would have been very helpful." #MCC

MacDonald: the McLeods wanted Skipper to be replaced by a new family liaison officer. Campbell: there was a conflict in the family, and I sent that request forward. #MCC

MacDonald: there were 4 or 5 different requests for DNA from family members. Why so many? Campbell: Sometimes you need that many to make an identification #MCC

MacDonald: should there be family liaison training? Campbell: not for singular homicides, but there should be a national team for mass casualties. #MCC

Campbell says he requested that a review of the response to April 18/19 to be done and led by a trained Critical Incident Commander who didn't work for the RCMP and wasn't in Nova Scotia. His superiors said no. #MCC

MacDonald: do you accept Lucki's statement that there was no political interference in the investigation? Campbell: "I stand by my notes... I was very concerned" ... we had an ongoing investigation and there was a very good reason why we could not release those details #MCC

Campbell: "any interference, whether it was political or otherwise... would be unacceptable... I was concerned that if it was political, the families wouldn't trust the investigation" #MCC

Now up, lawyer Tara Miller. #MCC

Just following up in this thread. Several readers, as well as @skimber and myself, have wondered how making the types of weapons public could have threatened the investigation — the people who provided the weapons knew what they were, after all. MORE #MCC

Yesterday, Campbell testified that in the early stage of the investigation, they didn't now where that investigation might lead. It was conceivable, he said, that they might use undercover agents to approach suspects. In that case, MORE #MCC

Seeing if the suspects had detailed information about the weapons that wasn't yet public could help the investigation, so there was a reason not to make that info public MORE #MCC

It turns out that no such undercover agents were ever employed, and in retrospect it's a non-issue, but at the time, who knew? I'll leave it up to readers to decide if that explanation makes sense. #MCC

Miller: the children weren't interviewed the night of the murders, or the next morning. What's the policy about children? Campbell: there is a child-interviewing course offered. #MCC

Campbell: you want people interviewed as soon as possible. I can't tell you why the children weren't interviewed. Miller: who had the authority? Campbell: Jeff West, the Critical Incident Commander, but he should've been supported by the investigative team #MCC

Again: Campbell seems to have been the only RCMP brass to have given deep thought to the policing issues raised by the murders. I mean, agree with him or not, but his counterparts haven't even thought about these issues. #MCC

Miller is going through the recommendations of the MacNeil report (written after Moncton), and Campbell is saying what's been done and not, on each #MCC

Lunch break for an hour #MCC

We're back. Nasha Nijhawan, who represents the National Police Federation (the union for general duty cops), is asking Campbell about staffing, of course #MCC

Nijhawan: there were only 4 cops on duty that night, so 2 were missing. O'Brien said he never had all 6. Is that common? Campbell: oh yeah. There are expected vacancies (court, retirement, etc) and unexpected (sick, maternity leave, inuries) #MCC

Nijhawan: why does this happen? Campbell: "we're resourced to the minimal level before those expected and unexpected vacancies happen"... "there's no buffer" #MCC

Campbell: I don't play the game of asking more than we're budgeted for #MCC

Nijhawan: how are staffing levels arrived at? Campbell: I don't make staffing decisions. Nijhawan: who should I ask? Campbell: the administrative people in Ottawa and the province #MCC

Campbell says he wrote the business case to present to the province for fully staffing the ERT. It will be at a full complement of 18 people by 2025. #MCC

Now lawyer Josh Bryson is questioning Campbell. Bryson: when you activated the Critical Incident Team on April 18, did you know how many general duty officers were on? Campbell: I think so. #MCC

Bryson: Merchant said they typically just had 4 members. Campbell: he would know. #MCC

Bryson: you knew there weren't many general members on duty when you activated the Critical Incident team? Campbell: that's unrelated. It was a critical incident, no matter how many general duty cops there were #MCC

Campbell says he was in the position from September 2019 to October 2021, and during that time he activated a critical incident package at least 60 times. The murder call alone from Jamie Blair was enough to activate it, he says, without any of the other murders #MCC

Bryson is discussing how the Major Crimes team did not canvass Portapique. (Bryson represents the Bond family; Peter and Joy Bond were not discovered for ~18 hours.) MORE #MCC

I keep thinking that there could have been people bleeding out, injured, and who could have perhaps been saved all that time. (Thankfully, this wasn't the case) #MCC

We're getting into some graphic descriptions of the Bond home. I'll spare you. But Bryson finds Campbell's observations "helpful." #MCC

Bryson asks about audits by the provincial department of justice of sexual assault cases handled by the RCMP. Campbell says he was never involved in any such audits. #MCC

Bryson is highlighting the section I pointed at upthread. Campbell agrees this is all wrong — Lilian Campbell was killed first in Wentworth, then the killer went to the Fishers in Glenholme. Also Kristen Beaton and Heather O'Brien were killed on Plains Road, not Highway 4. #MCC

Bryson: it took almost 3 hours for the ERT to get to Portapique after the first 911 call, but you said "within minutes." Campbell: I can see how someone would think that's misleading, but it wasn't intended #MCC

Bryson: the Canada Labour Board (Occupational Health and Safety) made some findings related to the ERT response in April 2020. #MCC

Now up is James Lockyer, Lisa Banfield's lawyer. Lockyer: did you play a role in the decision to charge Banfield? Campbell: no, the command triangle did. I talked with them about it, tho #MCC

Campbell: I talked with them, around November 2020. Lockyer: between March and July of 2020? Campbell: It'd be in my notes; the #MCC has my notes. I did talk with Chris Leather about the "challenges and perceptions" of charging Banfield #MCC

Lockyer; who were the crowns? Campbell: Shauna MacDonald and Mark Hrenia (I'm spelling that wrong). The crown is objecting #MCC

It's Heerema. #MCC

Lockyer: was Cst. Bent involved? Campbell: I don't know. Lockyer: any victims services? Campbell: I don't know. #MCC

Lockyer: there was a strategy — in writing — about questioning Banfield, her brother, and her brother-in-law such they weren't warned about self-incrimination #MCC

Campbell: I never saw the interview plan. Lockyer: so you didn't know they planned it such that they wouldn't have to give them their rights? Campbell: No. #MCC

Campbell: I wasn't involved in the question of whether there was sufficient evidence to charge them. I talked with Leather without the command triangle, was to get some feedback about the optics of charging her, "about how certain groups would perceive that" #MCC

Campbell: it was a debate about public interest. I was concerned about how the families would respond #MCC

Lockyer: was there a concern that charging her might be perceived as taking blame away from the RCMP? Campbell: No. I was concerned people talking about victim-blaming, how sympathetic or non-sympathetic families were to Banfield. #MCC

Lockyer: did you venture an opinion about whether she should be charged? Campbell: yes. I supported their decision to charge her. #MCC

That's it for Lockyer. 10-minute break #MCC

Lori Ward, the federal crown, is now asking Campbell questions. Ward: is the municipality that has to properly fund a police force, right? Campbell: sure. #MCC

Campbell says that the usual police to population ratio doesn't work well for rural areas, because it doesn't factor in the very long drive times involved #MCC

Ward and Campbell are going on about integrated policing units, which sounds like a good idea, until you remember Glen Assoun. #MCC

Now Young is following up on Campbell sending a request to the federal department of Justice asking for an independent review of the events of April 18/19. She says they haven't found that. Campbell says he'll assist in tracking it down (he names who he contacted) #MCC

Commissioner Finch and Campbell are essentially discussing whether Skipper should have had a Little Buddy. #MCC

OF COURSE the National Police Federation has issued a statement saying that Campbell's testimony "Calls for Improved Resources and Equipment" for the RCMP. There are only two solutions in our society: more money for cops, and tax cuts.

As I did yesterday, Commissioner Stanton points out that the Norwegian mass murder had some of the same attributes as Nova Scotia's mass murder #MCC

Commissioner MacDonald says there's one issue still bothering him — how it could be possible that the people on Cobequid Court weren't discovered until Sunday night? #MCC

Campbell: "my experience is based on 1 or 2 scenes, not 16 scenes." People were confused. To understand the enormity of it "would have taken some time." I wished we had found those victims earlier, if only to obtain evidence... #MCC

Campbell: I wasn't there, of course, but I'm basing this on my experience in other murder situations. "Do I think it was exceptional, this delay? No." #MCC

We're winding up here. Tomorrow, Chris Leather testifies. #MCC

Campbell addresses the families directly and breaks down in tears. "I'm truly sorry that we've failed you." #MCC

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