Thread by @apollopods

Back at it again here at #PM22! Our livetweet of F*#! Hollywood: How to Build the Podcasting Industry We Actually Want starts here!

And let us just say: Fuck Hollywood 😎

First up: eyes closed visualization so one sec 😌

Our panelists! @TastyKeish @evoterra and @ZachInSpace! And our hosts, @Maribel_QS and @TangiaRenee! Some of THE brightest stars and deepest thinkers in podcasting so follow them NOW 💙 #PM22

Dutes starts off saying she doesn't want to wait for another Halle Berry or Denzel Washington to win an Oscar but in the podcast world. We NEED to be doing better than Hollywood. #PM22

Terra talks about how Hollywood is the standard we think of for a blueprint, but podcasting is so different and so "fractured [...] in a good way"

If we follow Hollywood, we lose what makes podcasting great: diversity. #PM22

Moreno points out that the scale and models are different from Hollywood, the way we consume podcasts is different than film--"I think we're nore different than we are alike."

Podcasting is more like the internet than it is Hollywood! #PM22

What does it mean for podcasting to do better than Hollywood re: business?

Terra says that the business of podcasting is HARD. "There's no such thing as THE business of podcasting."

In money, we're only counting advertising. We don't talk about the economy re: COST. #PM22

The economy of podcasting is more than ad revenue, more than sponsorships. There are so many aspects you can get into business wise: showrunning, production, etc.

It's different than the Hollywood model--which is good! #PM22

Moreno talks ownership. The people who work on films don't own them; podcast creators DO. That's beautiful, that's amazing.

"We are essentially our own media companies as content creators."

At @SquadCastFM, they want podcasting to be accessible WORLDWIDE. #PM22

Dutes gets a question about adaptation and TV/film companion podcasts. What could we be doing better?

Dutes talks up the audio drama community 💙 and says we need to be looking at this niche #PM22

She talks about how the niche of porn is always innovating the tech of entertainment. It's the niches that innovate.

Stop reinventing the wheel. It's just radio more or less. Want to innovate? Look at niches: audio drama, fanfiction. #PM22

Do you see the independence of creators being at risk?

Yeah, says Dutes: "Everyone wants to get the bag. In that, you have to give up something."

She says WE deserve the bag. We deserve the IP, the residuals. So what are we willing to give up? #PM22

Terra counters GENTLY, he insists 😂

He comes from sff pub, working with under-published populations, and they also feel this way.

Authors can:
1. Sell to big publishing
2. Self-publish

Publishing provided services like developmental and copy editors #PM22

Some authors get REAL touchy about working with editors--but tbh editors often make their books better

So, indie podcasters also need to be at least a little receptive to looking beyond being so precious with their work as well #PM22

Dutes pushes back to THAT 😂

Collaboration? Yes. We love it! It makes us better!

Gatekeepers? The Disney version of things, whitewashed and sugarcoated? No. #PM22

Moreno says: "Independence is talked about as being on the sidelines, and I disagree with that [...] there is power in independence."

Content creation is a "team sport at every level" and "does not need to be a transactional relationship." In business AND content! #PM22

Quezada Smith points out that bigger companies need to be paying attention to the indies and collaborating with them, not the other way around!

This applies to awards, too: they're expensive, they're difficult to enter, and they keep out indies. #PM22

BUT! There are funds that will reimburse indie creators for submitting to awards! We need the funding to sustain this creativity. #PM22
podcastingseriously.com/fund

And Dutes, of course, points out: "And who's judging the awards?" #PM22

What do these new reports on Latinx listeners, Black listeners mean for us?

Moreno says these are huge numbers that are "underserved in content designed FOR them"

"It's a huge opportunity for creators to be there for those listeners." #PM22

Dutes says that as a Black person she saw the data and thought, "Yeah! I love buying shit! I too love toothpaste!"

This should be OBVIOUS. 😂 We don't have data for everything yet. But not having the data doesn't mean the wants and needs aren't there. #PM22

Quezada Smith: "We too like hiking. We too shop at REI."

People of color are not just the stereotypes whiteness has put on them.

There's opportunities but also. Like. Think thoughts, folks! #PM22

So, let's talk about RSS. Is it useful? Is 2.0 anything even?

Moreno, a software engineer, says, "Are other industries using RSS? No."

So, why? 👀 RSS is "one-directional." It doesn't allow listener data. How do other industries get that data, then? It's two directions. #PM22

RSS allows independence, and arguably, it might be why podcast isn't a walled garden.

"There's merits, but we can continue to innovate."

We don't need to invent anything. Other industries invented these things, like, a decade ago. We can use them AND have integrity. #PM22

Terra points out that it's not about the hosting companies having the data, it's the APPS, the podcatchers.

Spotify has the listener data. Why aren't THEY providing it to creators? Why are we hiding non-personal data? #PM22

Moreno says most people use more than one podcast app, and agrees that's where the data needs to come from

But also, we need a standard interface for what that data looks like so we can actually USE it for ads, investors, etc #PM22

Estrada asks Dutes what it's like working with Hollywood $. Where's the disconnects?

"They already see us, y'all. They are already throwing money at us [...] That means you gotta be there to catch it."

Be ready, and be at the top of your game, always. #PM22

Hollywood has money but not time "so it becomes a humanity issue."

Dutes points out the legacy and hierarchies. Podcasting < Radio < TV < Film

This is why people with no experience on audio wind up being our bosses. They care about that fakey fake hierarchy. #PM22

What they need is to respect audio!

"You come to the doctor because you need the doctor to fix you."

They expect it's easy, they expect they know more than we do. THAT'S the disconnect. #PM22

We need to put strong boundaries up. "Teach people how to treat you."

And stick to your deadlines. 😂 #PM22

Q&A time!

Q to Dutes: Hollywood is stumbling on just basic shit like pur paperwork looking different from theirs. When do we shout that actually we know what we're doing?

A: First, know where the standard is. Then, remember that you might have to speak in their language. #PM22

At the end of the day, speak in their language so they let you have what YOU want. Meet in the middle that way.

Quezada Smith points out that paperwork, copyright, etc. is actually a good opportunity to learn from Hollywood, not necessarily vice versa. #PM22

Q: Best practices to get a show sold?

A: Dutes says, consistency is key. Get ALL the data you can. Adjust for the data and reassess to tighten things up. Make sure your team is great. #PM22

Q: How do you stay authentic when businesses want to Disneyify you?

A: Context is important here. Are you incongruent culturally? You might not be a match. Want to break into their world? You might have to BROADEN without removing who you are. Add, not subtract. #PM22

And now to the other side of the table: start thinking bigger! Why are films about Black people relegated to "Black movies" when the themes are universal? 🙄 #PM22

Moreno says work within constraints to find middle ground. Make sure you get to keep ypur restraints, too! #PM22

And that wraps this INCREDIBLE session. Honored to have been in the same room with such brilliance at the same time. Again: follow everyone involved right now right now!!! #PM22