Around 1511, Cajetan wrote his famous work on The Pope and the Council.
But in 1521, he wrote this, expressing what became Bellarmine's Fifth Opinion.
Don't be deceived by "before God" or judgments. He is saying: *because* he can be judged, we can know he is not the Pope.
It is curious that Bellarmine only refers to the earlier text.
This doesn't *prove* that an openly heretical pope ipso facto loses office, but it does mean that Cajetan cannot really be marshalled in defence of the Fourth.
"If, on the one hand, we believe that a Pope can add to our articles of faith, so, on the other, we hold also that a heretical Pope, ipso facto, ceases to be Pope by reason of his heresy, as I have said."
Letter to Duke of Norfolk 377.
Regarding Cajetan: some will seize on the term "before God" to claim that he still remains pope "before the Church."
But he contrasts "before God" with "the external order of the Church" - and says "the same situation obtains."
So much for God requiring us to believe falsehood.
18 Jan: St Peter's Chair at Rome
22 Feb: St Peter's Chair at Antioch
John XXIII "amalgamated" them into a single feast of St Peter's Chair, on 22 Feb. In other words, he abolished the feast of St Peter's Chair at Rome.
What do you think he meant by this?
On 13 November 1964, Paul VI dramatically set aside the papal tiara and donated it to a museum, in order to feed the poor. From then on, he wore the simple mitre of a bishop.
What do you think he meant by this?
Item: The problematic docs from Vatican II appeared from 1965.
On 10 September 1978, John Paul I underwent a new ceremony of papal inauguration.
He declined to be crowned as pope in the traditional ceremony of papal coronation.
1. Before all else, as said before, new converts like @langluigi_ (whether to EO or RC or anything )shouldn't set themselves up as online religious influencers. It's an absolutely incredible phenomenon.
2. There are some questions to be asked here. Let's go...
In many states, someone isn't legally dead until they have been certified as such by a doctor. Many aspects of their estate can't be dealt with until the death is registered with the state.
Get ready for some absurdity.
Let's see what would happen if we applied this "humble" idea of not having authority to judge here.
We're going to give the body the benefit of the doubt until doctor comes, and assume the person is still alive.
After all, we don't have authority or training to declare a death.
If doctor is delayed, we need to treat an increasingly decomposed corpse as if it were alive, until that moment of officialdom arrives
What if doctor never arrives?
Well then, we will assume he isn't dead. It's the safer option. The opposite is just pride.
- Recognise one man is the pope
- Recognise that everybody else is not the pope
... then obviously you have the ability to recognise whether or not someone is the pope or not, and some criteria for making this judgement. Cont.
Now, you might say your recognition of Francis is based on the fact that he was elected, that the cardinals say he is the pope, or the whole Church, etc.
This is to concede the point. You have the ability to recognise these criteria are fulfilled, and judge he is the pope. Cont.
Once you have admitted this, you are admitting that you *do* have the ability to judge objective criteria and decide whether you are going to say the man is pope or not.
Aristotle said: "Where it is in our power to act it is also in our power not to act, and vice versa." NE 3.5.
It is commonly said that excommunication does not cause a man to lose his office, unless it is declared and enforced.
We believe that this is... correct!
But also irrelevant to the question of the papacy and Francis' legitimacy. Read on to see why... 🧵
Some effects of automatic excommunication are indeed automatic in the forum of conscience.
Some effects await a declaration. Loss of office. certainly seems to be one of the latter.
But wait, there's more.
Loss of membership/office for open, public heresy isn't to do with excommunication.
Some defending Francis' papacy (fully or partially/"materially") claim we all say they've lost office because they're automatically excommunicated. *This is a strawman.*