THREAD: What should we make of the breaking news that former Vice President Mike Pence received a grand jury subpoena for his testimony from Special Counsel Jack Smith?
1/ Tonight ABC News (and later NBC and the New York Times) reported that Special Counsel Jack Smith subpoenaed Mike Pence for his testimony before a grand jury.
This subpoena is very likely seeking testimony relating to Pence’s role on January 6th. nytimes.com/2023/02/09/us/…
This subpoena is very likely seeking testimony relating to Pence’s role on January 6th. nytimes.com/2023/02/09/us/…
2/ Pence is a key witness because Trump reportedly pressured him to refuse to certify the electoral votes on January 6th or to delay and send the matter back to the states.
His staff testified regarding this pressure campaign, but Pence had some private conversations with Trump.
His staff testified regarding this pressure campaign, but Pence had some private conversations with Trump.
3/ Because most of the other facts can be established by other witnesses, such as the Pence staffers who testified before the January 6th Committee, I expect Pence is one of the *last* witnesses Smith would call if he was building a case around the electoral vote certification.
4/ For that reason, this suggests that Smith’s January 6th investigation is far along. It also suggests that he is pursuing that aspect of his investigation aggressively—he isn’t focusing largely on the Mar-a-Lago documents matter and putting January 6th on the back burner.
5/ So does this mean Pence will try to fight the subpoena?
Don’t be so sure. Often witnesses who want to testify *ask* for grand jury subpoenas so they can say they were compelled to testify even when they are willing (or even eager) to come in and talk.
Don’t be so sure. Often witnesses who want to testify *ask* for grand jury subpoenas so they can say they were compelled to testify even when they are willing (or even eager) to come in and talk.
6/ If Pence doesn’t fight the subpoena, that would be a sign that he isn’t really resisting this testimony. (His own team could have leaked this news.)
Trump could sue to block the subpoena, citing executive privilege, but it is very unlikely that he would prevail.
Trump could sue to block the subpoena, citing executive privilege, but it is very unlikely that he would prevail.
7/ I expect Pence to testify, one way or another.
Typically a witness who is subpoenaed will instead negotiate a voluntary interview with prosecutors.
Prosecutors would have FBI agents present, which would mean any lie could be prosecuted just as if it was under oath.
Typically a witness who is subpoenaed will instead negotiate a voluntary interview with prosecutors.
Prosecutors would have FBI agents present, which would mean any lie could be prosecuted just as if it was under oath.
8/ Most people negotiate a voluntary interview because that permits them to have their attorney present and to answer questions in a more relaxed setting.
If Pence insists on formal testimony, that suggests he wants to appear like he is not being cooperative.
If Pence insists on formal testimony, that suggests he wants to appear like he is not being cooperative.
9/ So does this mean Smith is building charges against Trump?
We know that John Eastman is already under investigation, so it’s possible that Pence is being interviewed to build evidence against Eastman, but Pence is hardly a necessary witness against Eastman.
We know that John Eastman is already under investigation, so it’s possible that Pence is being interviewed to build evidence against Eastman, but Pence is hardly a necessary witness against Eastman.
10/ It’s more likely Smith is building a case against Trump. That doesn’t mean Trump will be charged, but today’s news should greatly concern Trump’s team.
We now know Smith is pushing hard to investigate January 6th, and it looks like he’s developing a case against Trump. /end
We now know Smith is pushing hard to investigate January 6th, and it looks like he’s developing a case against Trump. /end
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