Thread by @JLLiedl

German Synodal Way: Day 2 🧵

Final votes on implementation texts related to:
-lay preaching
-blessing of same-sex sexual relationships
-“joint consolation and decision making”
-“dealing w/gender diversity”
-“women in sacramental ministry”

Also, feedback from int’l observers

Starting things off with a musical performance that “captures the sound of the rising sun" [no live translation of lyrics]

Opening prayer includes readings from the prophets and Lord’s Prayer.

It doesn’t come through in the English translation, but I’ve been told the Synodal Way uses a contemporary German grammatical construction to render language about God gender neutral

Unsurprisingly, last night’s performance re: to sex abuse is being referenced to justify pushing forward on topics related to women’s oration, etc.

A participant at the European Synodal gathering mentions how the continental synthesis doc, Enlarge the Place of Your Tent (drafted by @austeni and co.) has provided an opening for German Synodal Way to advance its proposals in the context of universal Church..

Need to talk about women’s role in Church (including ordination) in light of scripture and tradition, but primarily in the context of “talent.”

Discussing the implementation text “Proclamation of the Gospel by lay people in word and sacrament”

-lay people should give homilies at Mass part of their “ecclesial mission”
-also lay-led baptism and marriage assistance
A bishop shares they left out lay confession…for now.

Bishop Puff (aux of Cologne) says he’s fine with lay reflections on Scripture outside of the Mass, but homily during the Eucharistic celebration must be given by the liturgical chair, ie, the priest.

Bishop Kohlgraf (Mainz) disagrees with Bishop Puff. Says he was raised in Cologne and lay people were allowed to preach during Mass before they weren’t and “it didn’t hurt anyone.” Applause. He’ll vote yes.

He’ll vote no. Cologne auxiliaries are considered loyal followers of their archbishop, Cardinal Woelki, who was one of the five German bishops to write to Rome and raise concerns about the proposed permanent Synodal Council.

Scumacher-Godeman chimes in. Says Christian Democratic Party added a “women’s quota” so people would vote for them. Catholic Church in Germany needs something like that, too.

Fr. Werner Otto: It’s 2023 and I can’t believe we’re still talking about women/lay people preaching during the Eucharist. Applause. We need this for evangelization. More bishops need to support lay people preaching at Mass b/c they want this “diversity of talent.”

Bishop Dieser. Let’s be smart. Focus on asking if women can be sacramentally ordained deacons (leave priesthood for later) and get an insult from Rome for women giving homilies. There can’t be participation in the Mass w/o allowing lay people to lead these sacramental services.

Bishop Dieser is the bishop of Aachen and is very close to +Marx and +Bätzing. Major proponent of blessings of same-sex sexual relationships, etc

Gregor Podschum speaking again. “He’s reached the end of his patience” with the bishops, who introduce proposals that others don’t have time to review. The bishops have the power, and we’re just bystanders. No longer willing to comply with that.

Par for the course for him.

Sr. Ganz: Women religious need to receive the sacraments from other women, not “outside priests”

To Bishop Puff, women don’t want to lead just the “sacraments-lite”

Im looking forward to the views from the int’l observers. I can imagine that some Catholic outsiders looking in would have the impression that they’re observing the proceedings of a different religious community.

Dr. Flachsbarth: I’ll vote for this, but I have a knot in my stomach. It’s just a proposal to reexamine something, which will allow leadership to simply stall.

Of course…I wonder how the invited foreign observers were selected...

More talk about how “qualification”—ie, functional ability—should be the primary criteria here.

Regina Nagel: Questions motives of some Synodal participants. Are they just there to preserve the status quo?

“Status quo” here = the system that allowed sexual abuse. This kind of rhetoric—support our reforms or your complicit with sexual abuse—is commonplace here.

A deacon just confirmed that the German bishops will push for sacramental ordination of women to the diaconate at the Oct. Synod on Synodality in Rome.

Many people have expressed concerns that the German Synodal Way is aimed at changing faith/morals in the Church universal.

Dr. Sonding, one of the chief officials of the Synodal Way. The subject of the Eucharist is the whole People of God. So we need lay people preaching, etc. This will be really attractive to people.

A lot of berating of the bishops going on right now. Not team players, not interested in listening or “overcoming hurdles by being Church together.”

Rhetoric reflects wider dynamic: intense pressure on German bishops from WITHIN the institutional Church, which employs 800k.

Sr. Jurt, a Dominican sister, says she would regret if they left out lay sacramentalconfession.

Says in her community it’s difficult to find a confessor who can “accompany” them in their unique situation.

Concerning ourselves with “permission” makes “God really small.”

Nicole Podlinski: Some of the objections are not only in Rome, but also “in the heads of women.” Adopt this measure or it will kill the Church.

Of course, 4 women delegates resigned from #SynodalerWeg due to its heterodoxy, prearranged agenda, etc

ncregister.com/cna/four-women…

Because the prayer service at the beginning of the assembly was prepared by lay people, and because the pandemic led to things like lay led services of the Word, we need to normalized lay preaching, etc

Guilke-Huissman: the document has been weakened up and “I’m sick of it!” Ie, lay confession was removed. Do it for the people, they are growing impatient!

Things were “boiling”, a lot of tension in the room regarding some amendments, so moderator asked for a vote on 5 minute pause to reflect.

58% voted no.

There are a lot of amendments to the text right now, which they are not providing a translation of, that are coming out 60-40.

Now they’re comparing votes of bishops vs women.

But there was confusion from the moderator b/c the slide for “women” was listed as “non males”…

Majority of synodal assembly, including almost all of the bishops, support so the motion passes, tho 62% of non males opposed.

Im told that this was on the bishops motion to REMOVE language of “lay sacramental confession” and anointing of the sick from the final text. So it passed. I believe women can veto a final vote if 2/3 dont agree, but not a motion for amendment.

Lots of parliamentary procedural kerfuffle right now. Confirming that they can have an overview of women’s votes…but necessity for majority of female votes is only necessary on final votes. Now they’re voting on to ACCEPT the rules committees

Ok, if the German speakers can’t follow along with what’s going on rn, how do you expect me to

Podmachus asks for a recorded vote.

Someone asks “on what?”

The overall text.

Now 5 people have handed in a motion.

Some are demanding the names of who handed the motion in—they want to know if they were bishops or not.

Three motions in place

-secret ballot (+Worner)
-recording vote (podmachus)
-taking a break

Worner’s motion fails…75% v 25%….so no secret ballot

*Podschun

So background on +Worner’s motion. 5 people could request a secret ballot. He turned in the motion. It failed. But people wanted to know *who* asked for it.

Some here are very very focused on making sure everything bishops vote on is public.

Modified text on “proclamation of the gospel by lay people in word and sacrament” passes to applause. In the end, 6 bishops opposed, same number of “non masculine” people who opposed.