So this thread explaining a key issue in the debate seemed to be useful so I thought I’d add another; this one around the question of #itdepends and how a key difference of values feeds confusion in the debates
One of the things that confuses/annoys people is the eco psych advocacy for not using all available conceptual tools and frameworks when designing training. Broadly, we push for *just* using the ecological principles underpinning representative learning design
This is a major source of confusion and public relations shenanigans. We get marketed as zealots and cultists, and as crazy for rejecting the seemingly obvious fact that which approach is best depends on lots of factors - how can one approach claim to have all the solutions?
The key idea is nicely summed up by this tweet; EcoD isn’t a method, it’s a lens (another way of saying theory, really). It’s a coherent set of principles for generating and evaluating training activities
When you have a coherent lens to work with, bouncing between approaches that don’t share the lens is simply incoherent. It’s like committing to the idea that the world is round but then sometimes accepting that it might be flat
EcoD is unique in sports science by being such a coherent lens. The rest of sports science/coaching is a mish-mash of ideas and frameworks cobbled together with no specific guiding theory. I’m not being rude: this variety is basically what #itdepends pitches as a strength
So, crudely, on one side we have #itdepends where doing whatever it takes is valued and seen as the right way to do business. On the other, you have EcoD which is one broad set of principles designed to cohere and which says some things are true and some things aren’t
The net result is the asymmetry we see in the debate. EcoD isn’t worried about #itdepends at the level of methods; it’s worried about it at the level of theory/lens, a worry not shared by traditional coaching. This is the source of another point of confusion in the debates
Again, at this point, I’m not arguing for one approach over the other; just trying to articulate an issue that causes confusions. Obviously I’m strongly committed to the value of picking a lane eg avant.edu.pl/wp-content/upl… but I could be wrong and that’s ok
But the #itdepends argument is effectively a clash of values, hence it gets heated & hence it always feels like we’re talking past each other. Keep that in mind, is all, so we can not get mired in this argument and instead move onto developing evidence bases for the one you like
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A thread with some of those reflections - it was really interesting to see these guys in action and there’s a lot of things going on! @MrlycettPE@_andCoach
I got to see a few different sessions, including a classroom activity, some outdoor PE and indoor work too. Dan and Ross are working from a constraints based approach across the board; always trying to help guide towards solutions, rather than provide them
The first thing you notice is how messy the sessions are. Kids worked on things at their own speed, so the class as a whole was often not doing anything like the same thing. From one point of view, it’s pretty chaotic! But of course while it was variable, it was still constrained
Recent challenges to thebFEP by @JBruineberg and @DioVicen and their colleagues seem to converge on a problem caused by the common error identified by @bayesianboy, namely confusing model things with system-being-modelled things. Papers linked at the end
🧵
The problem is Markov blankets. Mathematically, these can be read out of the data about statistical dependencies between model variables. This is a legitimate network analysis technique which Bruineberg et al label ‘Pearl blankets’ after the person who developed the technique
What FEP practitioners then claim is that those Pearl blankets actually pick out real parts of the system being modelled, suggesting the blankets are real things doing work in producing the system behaviour. Bruineberg et al call these Friston blankets to distinguish them
Whether or not the FEP can be made ecological seems to hinge on whether terms like ‘generative model’ can be sensibly cast in terms like ‘a system of anticipating affordances’ and while it sort of can, whether that WORKS seems to remain a matter of opinion 1/a couple
We need a way to tell the difference between ecological FEP and non-ecological FEP; a way of seeing which is better. And I just don’t see what that could be just now
Part of this is Friston Slipperiness. He oscillates freely between the two vocabularies and doesn’t seem particularly attracted to one over the other
1. Fuck you and your patronising bullshit. We are SWAMPED with nonsense and STILL keen to learn good things but we don’t have time so fuck you. Honestly, the desire to learn new useful things is so high among my colleagues even though they are mostly drowning right now
2. New isn’t the same as better. I love VR and I’m stunned at its current capabilities. But I also know a lot about how it works and what it can and can’t do and so you know what, it’s flashy but as yet unproved as a game changer in education
Ok, sorry I just threw this out then ran - I was in the school run 😂
What got me thinking was as I was driving, I came to an annoying intersection. I had to make my way through two close sets of lights; the latter was about to change, I had time to get through but had to...
...monitor to see if there was room for me on the other side, all while not trying to accidentally fake the dumbass tailgating me into thinking I was going if I wasn’t so that he wouldn’t plow into me
And it was all kind of easy
Because I’m me, I started thinking about how many things I had just fluidly engaged with in order to not get anyone killed, and it seemed a bit more than 7, +/- 2.
First, I didn’t actually say ‘do eco psych or get out’. I said ‘pick a damn theory and commit to it till it breaks or doesn’t’. I’m not sure that was clear though because boy did some people reflexively yell at me for being an eco psych cultist
Second, some fascinating misunderstandings of how science works. Committing to a theoretical approach, coming to grips with where it comes from, what it assumes, etc, is not dogmatism, it’s a critical part of science! (As is leaving and never returning to ideas that didn’t work)