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The coroner's inquest into the Vancouver police killing of Myles Gray starts today at 9 AM.
Scheduled are
Cst. D. Cain (VPD)
Cst. B. Spencer (VPD)
Cst. S. Jackel (VPD)
Cst. C. Bowater (VPD)
Cst. T. Tan (VPD)
Follow livestream
www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/content/li…
#JusticeForMylesGray
Scheduled are
Cst. D. Cain (VPD)
Cst. B. Spencer (VPD)
Cst. S. Jackel (VPD)
Cst. C. Bowater (VPD)
Cst. T. Tan (VPD)
Follow livestream
www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/content/li…
#JusticeForMylesGray
Cst Derek Cain
Saus he has his narrative report. Created night of the incident.
Currently collision investigation in traffic section.
On day he was in patrol division. In police car.
Qualified in intermediate weapons, oc, baton, firearms.
Annual qualifications in each.
Saus he has his narrative report. Created night of the incident.
Currently collision investigation in traffic section.
On day he was in patrol division. In police car.
Qualified in intermediate weapons, oc, baton, firearms.
Annual qualifications in each.
Vascular neck restraint.
On day he was not qualified in taser, arwen beanbag gun.
Training in crisis intervention and deescalation on mental health.
Says training is never-ending.
Apprehension under Mental Health Act training.
Doesn't say specific Mental Health training
On day he was not qualified in taser, arwen beanbag gun.
Training in crisis intervention and deescalation on mental health.
Says training is never-ending.
Apprehension under Mental Health Act training.
Doesn't say specific Mental Health training
On day, what use of force options?
He was working in plainclothes. Cargo shorts, t-shirt, bullet proof vest.
Handcuffs, baton, oc spray on him.
Has only reviewed his narrative.
Play audio files.
Confirms he heard the calls in real time.
Was working with Cst Spencer
He was working in plainclothes. Cargo shorts, t-shirt, bullet proof vest.
Handcuffs, baton, oc spray on him.
Has only reviewed his narrative.
Play audio files.
Confirms he heard the calls in real time.
Was working with Cst Spencer
In unmarked vehicle.
Cst Spencer driving.
Radio for a disturbance.
They were far from call, not something they would typically respond to.
To him, there was an inflection in her voice that said "something is up."
Told her she needed help.
**was not Code 3 cover though**
Cst Spencer driving.
Radio for a disturbance.
They were far from call, not something they would typically respond to.
To him, there was an inflection in her voice that said "something is up."
Told her she needed help.
**was not Code 3 cover though**
He and Spencer did not start that way initially.
Only when they heard there was fighting.
"The fight was on."
His state of mind. Now 100 percent attention to what was happening there.
They drove to Joffre.
Still hearing there was an active fight.
Wrote narrative with unionrep
Only when they heard there was fighting.
"The fight was on."
His state of mind. Now 100 percent attention to what was happening there.
They drove to Joffre.
Still hearing there was an active fight.
Wrote narrative with unionrep
21 year career, he knows what call for cover is.
State of mind was do my job.
Says active fight again. Police vehicles were parked "not normal."
Says the stairs were rickety wood and steep.
First saw Folkestad looking off in distance, "not with it"
Cst Thompson saw next.
State of mind was do my job.
Says active fight again. Police vehicles were parked "not normal."
Says the stairs were rickety wood and steep.
First saw Folkestad looking off in distance, "not with it"
Cst Thompson saw next.
Does not recognize the photo of the yard at first. Then does.
He's driven by once since bit didn't acknowledge the area.
Shown image of Joffre.
Does not have memory of the stairs.
Doesn't remember the description of the residence.
Doesn't have a memory when shown the photos
He's driven by once since bit didn't acknowledge the area.
Shown image of Joffre.
Does not have memory of the stairs.
Doesn't remember the description of the residence.
Doesn't have a memory when shown the photos
He can't recall having a memory of where he was.
Only remembers going up stairs. Seeing Folkestad and Thompson.
Says you could put up photos of any yard.
**He takes the cops lack of memory to a new level**
Shown a drawing of yard with VPD letterhead.
Also observed
Only remembers going up stairs. Seeing Folkestad and Thompson.
Says you could put up photos of any yard.
**He takes the cops lack of memory to a new level**
Shown a drawing of yard with VPD letterhead.
Also observed
Thompson with blood on face.
Thompson told him Folkestad had been punched out.
Cain concluded Folkestad was concussed.
Saw 3 cops and Myles prone on stomach. Wong and Birzneck wrestling with Myles.
Sahota at head end but beyond the fight.
Birzneck Wong and Myles on ground
Thompson told him Folkestad had been punched out.
Cain concluded Folkestad was concussed.
Saw 3 cops and Myles prone on stomach. Wong and Birzneck wrestling with Myles.
Sahota at head end but beyond the fight.
Birzneck Wong and Myles on ground
Says Myles was very muscular. "A very big guy."
Cain stepped to left side of Myles.
Under shrub or bush. He couldn't stand.
Did not observe any injuries on Myles.
Saw individual who needed to be taken into custody for assault at minimum.
Looked like grappling. Saw no strikes
Cain stepped to left side of Myles.
Under shrub or bush. He couldn't stand.
Did not observe any injuries on Myles.
Saw individual who needed to be taken into custody for assault at minimum.
Looked like grappling. Saw no strikes
At that time.
Says Myles was trying to get up. Push up style move.
Wong and Birzneck stopping that.
Heard officers yelling stop fighting.
Cain skidded under tree.
Attempted wrist lock. Inflicts extreme pain. Appeared to have no effect.
Says Myles grabbed his wrist. Very strong
Says Myles was trying to get up. Push up style move.
Wong and Birzneck stopping that.
Heard officers yelling stop fighting.
Cain skidded under tree.
Attempted wrist lock. Inflicts extreme pain. Appeared to have no effect.
Says Myles grabbed his wrist. Very strong
Noted Myles was profusely sweaty, like sunscreen. Like greased monkey bars.
No pain compliance. Used as much force as he could.
Spencer now there.
One cop on Myles back.
Myles lifted the officer like he was nothing.
He couldn't imagine doing that.
At least a foot up.
No pain compliance. Used as much force as he could.
Spencer now there.
One cop on Myles back.
Myles lifted the officer like he was nothing.
He couldn't imagine doing that.
At least a foot up.
Another claim Myles had superhuman strength.
Placed left knee on Myles left temple and left shoulder blade.
Mules lifted him. Completely off balance and fell off him.
He was completely in disbelief.
Also says he was tossed around like a doll.
Amazing strength.
He was pushed off
Placed left knee on Myles left temple and left shoulder blade.
Mules lifted him. Completely off balance and fell off him.
He was completely in disbelief.
Also says he was tossed around like a doll.
Amazing strength.
He was pushed off
With ease.
Not only is Myles arrestable, he needs to be controlled.
If Myles got up, extreme aggression muscular build.
His muscles were huge. Pain tolerance.
Says it was not an option to let Myles walk away.
Delivered multiple knee strikes no more than 4.
at left arm
Not only is Myles arrestable, he needs to be controlled.
If Myles got up, extreme aggression muscular build.
His muscles were huge. Pain tolerance.
Says it was not an option to let Myles walk away.
Delivered multiple knee strikes no more than 4.
at left arm
Wanted to inflict as much pain as he could. Struck as hard as he could.
Says he couldn't tell who other officers were at the time. No memories of what they were doing.
Can't remember what force they used but assumes some was used.
Myles was in a flexion state the whole time
Says he couldn't tell who other officers were at the time. No memories of what they were doing.
Can't remember what force they used but assumes some was used.
Myles was in a flexion state the whole time
Managed to pull his arm out. Someone applied a handcuff.
Myles was double cuffed.
In his experience that creates a challenge because hands could be brought to front over legs.
Myles was extremely agitated, aggressive, not speaking.
No profanity. No verbal. Grunts.
Like lifting
Myles was double cuffed.
In his experience that creates a challenge because hands could be brought to front over legs.
Myles was extremely agitated, aggressive, not speaking.
No profanity. No verbal. Grunts.
Like lifting
No stopping in his flexive state
This was more than someone not wanting to go to jail.
Cain had been a paramedic.
Thought signs of excited delirium
Without control they can't be calmed.
Can't be assessed.
Requires restraints.
Also chemical restraint. Sedation.
He called ALS
This was more than someone not wanting to go to jail.
Cain had been a paramedic.
Thought signs of excited delirium
Without control they can't be calmed.
Can't be assessed.
Requires restraints.
Also chemical restraint. Sedation.
He called ALS
ALS can sedate.
Airway interventions.
1997 to 2008 was paramedic.
Was a field trainer.
Saw this as a life threatening medical emergency.
Continued restraint.
Was on Myles left arm.
Enormous, tremendous, strength.
Says he started saying we're here to help.
Felt like forever
Airway interventions.
1997 to 2008 was paramedic.
Was a field trainer.
Saw this as a life threatening medical emergency.
Continued restraint.
Was on Myles left arm.
Enormous, tremendous, strength.
Says he started saying we're here to help.
Felt like forever
Says he made multiple calls for ALS
Struggle ensued.
Finally Myles let out deep breath. Will never forget the sound.
Face turned purple. Knew he had stopped breathing.
Needed to assess.
Lifting Myles was like lifting ikea furniture, "he was that muscular"
Tried to trigger
Struggle ensued.
Finally Myles let out deep breath. Will never forget the sound.
Face turned purple. Knew he had stopped breathing.
Needed to assess.
Lifting Myles was like lifting ikea furniture, "he was that muscular"
Tried to trigger
Breathing reflex
Another officer, doesn't remember who, on Myles other shoulder.
Questions about struggle.
Noticed the hobble.
Officers sitting on Myles hips.
Cain was focused on Myles.
Again says he saw no strikes.
Back to sternum rub questions.
Cain and Spencer moved Myles
Another officer, doesn't remember who, on Myles other shoulder.
Questions about struggle.
Noticed the hobble.
Officers sitting on Myles hips.
Cain was focused on Myles.
Again says he saw no strikes.
Back to sternum rub questions.
Cain and Spencer moved Myles
They pulled him out from under tree.
Believes it was when he was not breathing.
Didn't wrote this into his report but says Myles spike in plain language "Where am I, what is happening."
Then in a split section back to flexing and fight.
Told life support paramedic to go back
Believes it was when he was not breathing.
Didn't wrote this into his report but says Myles spike in plain language "Where am I, what is happening."
Then in a split section back to flexing and fight.
Told life support paramedic to go back
Down the stairs.
Myles stopped breathing again.
Cain put him on his side. Another sternum rub with no affect.
Myles body went limp.
Called fire to bring jump kir, defibrillators, oxygen.
He and Bowater performed cpr on pulse less Myles.
Resuscitation failed.
Bowater hooked
Myles stopped breathing again.
Cain put him on his side. Another sternum rub with no affect.
Myles body went limp.
Called fire to bring jump kir, defibrillators, oxygen.
He and Bowater performed cpr on pulse less Myles.
Resuscitation failed.
Bowater hooked
Up defibrillator.
Cains role was airway. Mask hooked to oxygen tank.
Doesn't know how long.
ALS eventually showed up.
Cain went down stairs
Felt like he had been hit by a truck.
Got oxygen for Folkestad.
Went to VGH for assessment.
7th floor of VPD.
Iio asserted jurisdiction
Cains role was airway. Mask hooked to oxygen tank.
Doesn't know how long.
ALS eventually showed up.
Cain went down stairs
Felt like he had been hit by a truck.
Got oxygen for Folkestad.
Went to VGH for assessment.
7th floor of VPD.
Iio asserted jurisdiction
Seized clothing. Took photos.
Firearm seized.
Filled wcb form
Critical Incident.
Went home and wrote his report. Reviewed by counsel, union rep. Submitted when they told him to.
Cain doesn't think it's plausible to ask police or fire to carry AlS equipment.
Firearm seized.
Filled wcb form
Critical Incident.
Went home and wrote his report. Reviewed by counsel, union rep. Submitted when they told him to.
Cain doesn't think it's plausible to ask police or fire to carry AlS equipment.
Need to recognize signs early.
Could ask for more paramedics but they might be busy anyway.
Q. About training records.
Crisis intervention and deescalation.
Cain took course in 2012? He doesnt remember and can't say what the training was.
Q. Does he recall mental health train
Could ask for more paramedics but they might be busy anyway.
Q. About training records.
Crisis intervention and deescalation.
Cain took course in 2012? He doesnt remember and can't say what the training was.
Q. Does he recall mental health train
Remembers generally but can't say what it was.
Can't remember specifically what happened in those trainings.
Says they need risks recognition.
Can't remember specifically what happened in those trainings.
Says they need risks recognition.
Break until 10:40
Resumes at 10:51
Cst Cain testimony continues.
Donaldson.
Qs. Ar police detachment all officers were there together.
Cain is aware of IIO.
Q. Did he receive instructions not to make notes there.
A. Yes. Recalls a union member possibly Stamatakis giving those instructions.
Cst Cain testimony continues.
Donaldson.
Qs. Ar police detachment all officers were there together.
Cain is aware of IIO.
Q. Did he receive instructions not to make notes there.
A. Yes. Recalls a union member possibly Stamatakis giving those instructions.
No substantive notes from scene.
Was not given computer access.
Q policy is to make notes.
A. Cain says now they mostly can do reports in real time.
Back to scene.
Q. No mention of Folkestad condition in statement.
A says he only remembers it now.
Cain says he did not
Was not given computer access.
Q policy is to make notes.
A. Cain says now they mostly can do reports in real time.
Back to scene.
Q. No mention of Folkestad condition in statement.
A says he only remembers it now.
Cain says he did not
See hobble.
Q. If he was hobbled that matters to application of force and decisions
A. No. Says he didn't see a hobble.
That's not the question.
Now Cain says yes, a hobble would be a consideration.
Q. A handcuff would also matter.
A. Yes.
Q. If hobble is applied can't run
Q. If he was hobbled that matters to application of force and decisions
A. No. Says he didn't see a hobble.
That's not the question.
Now Cain says yes, a hobble would be a consideration.
Q. A handcuff would also matter.
A. Yes.
Q. If hobble is applied can't run
A. Yes.
Cain says there was a hobble on at time he stopped breathing.
Q Cain arrived at 15:26.
At 15:27 Wong radioed Myles was in custody.
10 seconds later Wong radios not responsive.
90 seconds after Cain arrived.
But he says he saw no injuries.
Q. Did he consciously
Cain says there was a hobble on at time he stopped breathing.
Q Cain arrived at 15:26.
At 15:27 Wong radioed Myles was in custody.
10 seconds later Wong radios not responsive.
90 seconds after Cain arrived.
But he says he saw no injuries.
Q. Did he consciously
Leave out officers names.
Never saw Cst Jackel.
Paramedic Shipman (sp) said this is my show.
Cain says not to him. Doesn't know if he was there. Never saw him.
Cain says Wong and Birzneck were fighting when he arrived.
Did not observe vascular neck restraint.
Did not see arm
Never saw Cst Jackel.
Paramedic Shipman (sp) said this is my show.
Cain says not to him. Doesn't know if he was there. Never saw him.
Cain says Wong and Birzneck were fighting when he arrived.
Did not observe vascular neck restraint.
Did not see arm
Around Myles neck.
Doesn't even know what officers across from him were doing.
Cain says it was the most dynamic situation you can imagine.
Doesn't remember saying anything to other officers.
Never saw any strikes of any sort.
"It was a wrestling match."
Q. See blood on face?
Doesn't even know what officers across from him were doing.
Cain says it was the most dynamic situation you can imagine.
Doesn't remember saying anything to other officers.
Never saw any strikes of any sort.
"It was a wrestling match."
Q. See blood on face?
Cain says like others hecsaw no blood on Myles face. Only dirt and sweat.
Q. As former paramedic don't you have keen eye for injuries?
A yes.
Q. But you recall no blood?
A. Nope. No recollection of blood, injuries or eyes.
Q. Familiar with trachea injuries?
A yes.
Q. As former paramedic don't you have keen eye for injuries?
A yes.
Q. But you recall no blood?
A. Nope. No recollection of blood, injuries or eyes.
Q. Familiar with trachea injuries?
A yes.
Cain is aware of positional asphyxia. Realizes that will make people struggle for air
Cain estimates Myles 20 pounds more than his actual weight of 185 pounds.
Says again Myles was "huge."
Agrees Myles was handcuffed around time he was hobbled.
Cain says he's being led down
Cain estimates Myles 20 pounds more than his actual weight of 185 pounds.
Says again Myles was "huge."
Agrees Myles was handcuffed around time he was hobbled.
Cain says he's being led down
A path.
Q. Flailing about was said by Cain.
If he's handcuffed though?
A. A flex, exerting himself.
Q. Are you saying he was not under control when handcuffed and hobbled?
Coroner intervenes.
Q. Return to last question.
Cain says now Myles is a risk to himself after handcuff
Q. Flailing about was said by Cain.
If he's handcuffed though?
A. A flex, exerting himself.
Q. Are you saying he was not under control when handcuffed and hobbled?
Coroner intervenes.
Q. Return to last question.
Cain says now Myles is a risk to himself after handcuff
Cain. He needs to be calmed. Needed medical sedation.
Q. Repeated application of force did not play a part in his death?
Officer counsel objects. Says it's becoming a criminal trial.
**It should be**
Vpd counsel intervenes as well
Donaldson resumes
Cain says Myles showed
Q. Repeated application of force did not play a part in his death?
Officer counsel objects. Says it's becoming a criminal trial.
**It should be**
Vpd counsel intervenes as well
Donaldson resumes
Cain says Myles showed
No distress in his breathing.
Q. If trying to breath Myles would try to push up.
A. Yes.
Cain doesn't remember to officers again.
Doesn't know whose cuffs.
Q. You did not see other officers apply force.
A. Holding him down. No striking.
Q. He stops breathing and fire arrive
Q. If trying to breath Myles would try to push up.
A. Yes.
Cain doesn't remember to officers again.
Doesn't know whose cuffs.
Q. You did not see other officers apply force.
A. Holding him down. No striking.
Q. He stops breathing and fire arrive
A. That was after that they arrived.
Cain doesn't have time they arrived.
He directed fire to stay at bottom of stairs.
Myles is for sure handcuffed. Hobble would have been on then.
Myles was face pointed to side, chest on ground.
Stops breathing. Cain and Bowater attempt
Cain doesn't have time they arrived.
He directed fire to stay at bottom of stairs.
Myles is for sure handcuffed. Hobble would have been on then.
Myles was face pointed to side, chest on ground.
Stops breathing. Cain and Bowater attempt
Resuscitation.
Cain saw no pepper spray.
Says with everyone around it would not be a force option he would choose.
Q. Between 2 consciousness episodes.
Returned to prone position.
A. Cain not sure if it was a dream that Myles spoke calmly. Then returned to flexing. Returned
Cain saw no pepper spray.
Says with everyone around it would not be a force option he would choose.
Q. Between 2 consciousness episodes.
Returned to prone position.
A. Cain not sure if it was a dream that Myles spoke calmly. Then returned to flexing. Returned
To prone.
Juror 1.
Legs or head first from tree.
Cain lays leg first. Hobble would have been used.
Q about leg/knee kicks.
A. Knee strikes while down. Can exert extreme force with right knee. Used as much force as he could apply.
Juror 2
None
Juror 3
Q. Given his skill
Juror 1.
Legs or head first from tree.
Cain lays leg first. Hobble would have been used.
Q about leg/knee kicks.
A. Knee strikes while down. Can exert extreme force with right knee. Used as much force as he could apply.
Juror 2
None
Juror 3
Q. Given his skill
Is it reasonable to believe vascular neck restraint was used.
A. That's reasonable. It is considered justified if officer has had much force.
Juror 4
Noises.
A. He heard no noises when he arrived. Says auditory exclusion occurs.
Coroner.
Q. Where was Myles when first
A. That's reasonable. It is considered justified if officer has had much force.
Juror 4
Noises.
A. He heard no noises when he arrived. Says auditory exclusion occurs.
Coroner.
Q. Where was Myles when first
Stopped breathing.
A. Under tree.
Cst Spencer was holding Myles up because he was so big.
Myles started flailing more.
Moved a distance from the tree. Not moved again.
Moved when he stopped breathing the first time.
Q. When you go into the situation what are you
A An officer
A. Under tree.
Cst Spencer was holding Myles up because he was so big.
Myles started flailing more.
Moved a distance from the tree. Not moved again.
Moved when he stopped breathing the first time.
Q. When you go into the situation what are you
A An officer
Q. But you can make assessment based on paramedic experience
A. Yes.
Cain says he recognized medical emergency before stopped breathing.
Assumption about person stripping down because Myles had no shirt.
Donaldson.
Q. Treatment to one of your toes. Noyes said from kicking
A. Yes.
Cain says he recognized medical emergency before stopped breathing.
Assumption about person stripping down because Myles had no shirt.
Donaldson.
Q. Treatment to one of your toes. Noyes said from kicking
Someone during arrest.
Cst Cain excused.
Next witness is Cst Spencer.
Coroner. Spencer could be on stand for considerable time.
Break for lunch until 12:40 PM.
Cst Cain excused.
Next witness is Cst Spencer.
Coroner. Spencer could be on stand for considerable time.
Break for lunch until 12:40 PM.
Resumes at 12:48.
Next witness Cst B. Spencer.
Cst Beau Spencer
**Note that his father is also a cop who killed someone**
Detective Constable now.
Cop since 2011.
On day patrol Constable.
Baton, oc, firearm.
Took course on critical incidents and deescalation.
Next witness Cst B. Spencer.
Cst Beau Spencer
**Note that his father is also a cop who killed someone**
Detective Constable now.
Cop since 2011.
On day patrol Constable.
Baton, oc, firearm.
Took course on critical incidents and deescalation.
At tactical training center.
Hundreds of incidents with people around mental health or substance use.
Prepared statement after direction from union on personal computer.
It was given to union before uploaded.
At least a month or to after, not directly after.
Prepared no notes
Hundreds of incidents with people around mental health or substance use.
Prepared statement after direction from union on personal computer.
It was given to union before uploaded.
At least a month or to after, not directly after.
Prepared no notes
Instruction from senior union agent not to take any notes.
On the day he was plainclothes in car. Partner Cain.
Heard radio saying mental health episode.
Heard Sahota ask for cover, seemed urgent.
Didn't dispatch himself.
Heard radio saying officer was injured. Folkestad.
On the day he was plainclothes in car. Partner Cain.
Heard radio saying mental health episode.
Heard Sahota ask for cover, seemed urgent.
Didn't dispatch himself.
Heard radio saying officer was injured. Folkestad.
Says Folkestad called for code 3 cover.
That escalated his urgency.
Could hear urgency in Folkestad voice.
Had never before heard of officer being struck in face and knocked out.
(But that wasn't said in the call)
Heard Thompson and Wong were on scene and still fighting
That escalated his urgency.
Could hear urgency in Folkestad voice.
Had never before heard of officer being struck in face and knocked out.
(But that wasn't said in the call)
Heard Thompson and Wong were on scene and still fighting
Fights with cops are usually over in seconds so he was very concerned.
Arrived and excited with Cain.
Heard yelling and grunting.
From up stairs.
Heard branches breaking.
At lawn saw 5 officers struggling.
Very evident Myles was trying to get up and escape.
Arrived and excited with Cain.
Heard yelling and grunting.
From up stairs.
Heard branches breaking.
At lawn saw 5 officers struggling.
Very evident Myles was trying to get up and escape.
Says Myles was beneath a shrub or tree.
Shown photos. He recognizes scene, points out shrub or tree.
Myles head facing tree.
Face down on stomach.
Very dynamic and hectic.
Found job to do for himself.
Not focused on other officers.
Q. What was assessment.
A. Member of public
Shown photos. He recognizes scene, points out shrub or tree.
Myles head facing tree.
Face down on stomach.
Very dynamic and hectic.
Found job to do for himself.
Not focused on other officers.
Q. What was assessment.
A. Member of public
Felt threatened. Officer had been assaulted.
Wanted to take Myles into custody.
First went to Lowe body, noticed hobble.
Looked at arms. Still loose. Needed to be handcuffed.
Mannerisms of Myles. Animalistic state. Pupils dilated.
Believed excited delirium.
Immediately thought
Wanted to take Myles into custody.
First went to Lowe body, noticed hobble.
Looked at arms. Still loose. Needed to be handcuffed.
Mannerisms of Myles. Animalistic state. Pupils dilated.
Believed excited delirium.
Immediately thought
Medical.
No reasoning with someone in excited delirium.
Verbal commands wouldn't work.
Tried to get hand behind back.
Never experienced strength of that level then or since.
Moved to striking Myles in shoulder. *Again makes sure to say under 5 times.*
Says Myles felt no pain
No reasoning with someone in excited delirium.
Verbal commands wouldn't work.
Tried to get hand behind back.
Never experienced strength of that level then or since.
Moved to striking Myles in shoulder. *Again makes sure to say under 5 times.*
Says Myles felt no pain
Pain compliance did not happen.
Spencer on edge of exhaustion already.
Can't recall who put on handcuffs.
Cain and he stayed with Myles. Not on back, chest, or face.
Applied pressure on elbow, triceps, forearm.
Face down to side.
Breathing became irregular.
Spencer on edge of exhaustion already.
Can't recall who put on handcuffs.
Cain and he stayed with Myles. Not on back, chest, or face.
Applied pressure on elbow, triceps, forearm.
Face down to side.
Breathing became irregular.
Can't recall single or double cuffed.
Recovery position on his side. Tried to prevent him roling on stomach.
Moved Myles leg up. Upper knee placed close to stomach.
Cain took over.
Got breathing back to normal.
Carried Myles then to open area in yard.
Myles went animalistic
Recovery position on his side. Tried to prevent him roling on stomach.
Moved Myles leg up. Upper knee placed close to stomach.
Cain took over.
Got breathing back to normal.
Carried Myles then to open area in yard.
Myles went animalistic
Again.
Spencer put all weight on elbow again.
Thrashing side to side. Levels of strength never seen before or since.
Says Myles looked him in the face and said what's going on?
Animalistic, bucked Spencer off like horse at rodeo.
Got back on. Then felt all strength stop
Spencer put all weight on elbow again.
Thrashing side to side. Levels of strength never seen before or since.
Says Myles looked him in the face and said what's going on?
Animalistic, bucked Spencer off like horse at rodeo.
Got back on. Then felt all strength stop
He disengaged then.
Returned to Joffre.
Went to VPD to await instructions from union and IIO.
While under tree. Breathing, trying to catch breath. Not animalistic.
Felt like it was only himself and Cain.
Not sure what Cain was doing.
Then moved to open area.
Returned to Joffre.
Went to VPD to await instructions from union and IIO.
While under tree. Breathing, trying to catch breath. Not animalistic.
Felt like it was only himself and Cain.
Not sure what Cain was doing.
Then moved to open area.
Spencer was worried and scared.
Can't recall what other officers were doing.
Hobble seemed held. Feet not loose.
Hobble still secured in open area.
Someone giving what he believed was cpr.
Spencer observed Myles face getting more and more swollen. Slightly swollen at first
Can't recall what other officers were doing.
Hobble seemed held. Feet not loose.
Hobble still secured in open area.
Someone giving what he believed was cpr.
Spencer observed Myles face getting more and more swollen. Slightly swollen at first
Spencer recalls swelling around eye sockets. Eyes appearing smaller and smaller.
Says it like a bee sting.
Saw no other injuries.
Following incident. Not able to speak together about incident.
But we're together at VPD building.
Q about future.
A. Body cams would reveal
Says it like a bee sting.
Saw no other injuries.
Following incident. Not able to speak together about incident.
But we're together at VPD building.
Q about future.
A. Body cams would reveal
Events.
Faster ALS.
Donaldson.
Q. Statement prepared in December or January.
A. Can't give actual date. 1 or 2 months under instruction of union.
Felt obliged to follow that direction. Says he was inexperienced. Three years on service
**But his dad was a cop**
Faster ALS.
Donaldson.
Q. Statement prepared in December or January.
A. Can't give actual date. 1 or 2 months under instruction of union.
Felt obliged to follow that direction. Says he was inexperienced. Three years on service
**But his dad was a cop**
Says, bit there was no IIO when his dad was a cop.
Q. About call time.
A. Can't recall when he was given access to call data.
At police department was able to access computer data and documents as needed to refresh his memory.
Q about his arrival at scene.
A. Clear Myles
Q. About call time.
A. Can't recall when he was given access to call data.
At police department was able to access computer data and documents as needed to refresh his memory.
Q about his arrival at scene.
A. Clear Myles
Was hobbled.
Photo put up again.
Donaldson suggests Myles was not under the tree when Spencer arrived.
Spencer can't recall if he had to go under tree or not.
Can't recall what all officers were doing when he arrived.
Doesn't recall vascular neck restraint or pepper spray.
Photo put up again.
Donaldson suggests Myles was not under the tree when Spencer arrived.
Spencer can't recall if he had to go under tree or not.
Can't recall what all officers were doing when he arrived.
Doesn't recall vascular neck restraint or pepper spray.
Can't even recall if he was the one who cuffed Myles.
Tried to inflict temporary motor dysfunction.
Breathing is irregular almost as soon as cuffs applied.
Being restrained while on stomach.
Believes someone handcuffed and in hobble can easily escape.
Donaldson doesn't buy
Tried to inflict temporary motor dysfunction.
Breathing is irregular almost as soon as cuffs applied.
Being restrained while on stomach.
Believes someone handcuffed and in hobble can easily escape.
Donaldson doesn't buy
Donaldson says no one has ever escaped from Spencer while handcuffed and hobbled.
A. He's never experienced anyone like Myles before or since.
Had no reason to think someone wasn't holding hobble.
Q about moving Myles leg. If hobbled it had to be both legs.
A. agrees
A. He's never experienced anyone like Myles before or since.
Had no reason to think someone wasn't holding hobble.
Q about moving Myles leg. If hobbled it had to be both legs.
A. agrees
Says he was mistaken earlier.
Saw no blood on Myles face despite being very close to it now.
Spencer can't comment on if a broken nose causes lots of blood.
Spencer didn't use animalistic in his earlier statement. Written.
Spencer can't recall if he was there when fire showed
Saw no blood on Myles face despite being very close to it now.
Spencer can't comment on if a broken nose causes lots of blood.
Spencer didn't use animalistic in his earlier statement. Written.
Spencer can't recall if he was there when fire showed
Can't recall who gave Myles medical attention.
Can't recall any medical personnel.
Says Cain worked on Myles.
Spencer went to hospital for sprained wrist from punching Myles.
Joseph, officer counsel.
Q. What did Spencer review.
A. Union said not to look at other info except
Can't recall any medical personnel.
Says Cain worked on Myles.
Spencer went to hospital for sprained wrist from punching Myles.
Joseph, officer counsel.
Q. What did Spencer review.
A. Union said not to look at other info except
Call.
Juror 1.
Q. About movement from tree. If he was unconscious were any actions taken.
A. Can't say.
Spencer says Myles was moved legs first.
Corrects his statement about moving one leg again.
Q. About training.
Did he have training for situation of 5 officers. Coordinatio
Juror 1.
Q. About movement from tree. If he was unconscious were any actions taken.
A. Can't say.
Spencer says Myles was moved legs first.
Corrects his statement about moving one leg again.
Q. About training.
Did he have training for situation of 5 officers. Coordinatio
A. Training on keeping someone under control.
Q. Any training that someone should become a leader.
A. Happens automatically.
No one makes calls.
Spencer says you cant look at other people's tasks.
Not trained to see what others are doing.
Q. So how did you determine what arm?
Q. Any training that someone should become a leader.
A. Happens automatically.
No one makes calls.
Spencer says you cant look at other people's tasks.
Not trained to see what others are doing.
Q. So how did you determine what arm?
Juror 2.
Q. See bearhug
A. No.
Juror 3
None.
Juror 4.
Q. How long between consciousness?
Q. When he had moment of clarity, how long?
A. Went back into fighting state, not unconscious.
Q. Seconds or minutes
A. Felt like minutes could have been Seconds.
Spencer saw no baton
Q. See bearhug
A. No.
Juror 3
None.
Juror 4.
Q. How long between consciousness?
Q. When he had moment of clarity, how long?
A. Went back into fighting state, not unconscious.
Q. Seconds or minutes
A. Felt like minutes could have been Seconds.
Spencer saw no baton
Use.
Juror 5
Q. Take notes at home?
A. No not right away. Was a junior officer.
Q. Did union tell whole group together or individually.
A. Doesn't recall.
Follow up
Q. Did anyone say verbally not to discuss on scene
A. Can't recall
Cst Spencer excused.
Next witness Jackel
Juror 5
Q. Take notes at home?
A. No not right away. Was a junior officer.
Q. Did union tell whole group together or individually.
A. Doesn't recall.
Follow up
Q. Did anyone say verbally not to discuss on scene
A. Can't recall
Cst Spencer excused.
Next witness Jackel
Cst Stephen Jackel.
Sergeant now.
34 years on force.
Now neighborhood policing unit.
Then patrol officer.
As of 2015 what use of force trained in.
Baton, oc, firearm.
Received some training in crisis deescalation may have been since, can't recall.
Many training in
Sergeant now.
34 years on force.
Now neighborhood policing unit.
Then patrol officer.
As of 2015 what use of force trained in.
Baton, oc, firearm.
Received some training in crisis deescalation may have been since, can't recall.
Many training in
Mental health, intoxication.
Wrote iio statement that day. At scene.
Was NCO that day.
Noticed call on Marine. Was scanning.
Heard Sahota going to call. Not too serious at that time. For erratic behavior.
Heard Sahota in area looking for person. Call for cover. Still not
Wrote iio statement that day. At scene.
Was NCO that day.
Noticed call on Marine. Was scanning.
Heard Sahota going to call. Not too serious at that time. For erratic behavior.
Heard Sahota in area looking for person. Call for cover. Still not
High priority.
Heard further broadcast with more urgency from Sahota.
Units started to go code 3.
Later heard broadcasts of male going up steps.
Broadcasts about officers going to confront.
Broadcasts about injuries.
Calls for bhs.
Calls for heart unit.
He had one in car.
Heard further broadcast with more urgency from Sahota.
Units started to go code 3.
Later heard broadcasts of male going up steps.
Broadcasts about officers going to confront.
Broadcasts about injuries.
Calls for bhs.
Calls for heart unit.
He had one in car.
When he arrived went up to yard.
Q. Do NCOs usually go to call?
A. High priority calls.
Q. What was his reason for going in this call?
A. Nature of call.
First encounter Thompson holding head in hands. Spike briefly. Saw Folkestad appearing dazed. Struck in jaw. Encountered
Q. Do NCOs usually go to call?
A. High priority calls.
Q. What was his reason for going in this call?
A. Nature of call.
First encounter Thompson holding head in hands. Spike briefly. Saw Folkestad appearing dazed. Struck in jaw. Encountered
Sahota holding arm.
Shown photo.
Observed Myles on ground. 3 officers holding him down.
Myles was on side or stomach. Head lying against ground. Muscles were tense and rigid. Believes he was only in underwear or shorts.
Observed no injuries, blood or open cuts.
Shown photo.
Observed Myles on ground. 3 officers holding him down.
Myles was on side or stomach. Head lying against ground. Muscles were tense and rigid. Believes he was only in underwear or shorts.
Observed no injuries, blood or open cuts.
Observed Myles go limp and then tense.
No pulse, observed cpr. Cain and Bowater involved.
Went down stairs to get defibrillator like device.
Hobble was removed. Handcuffs were removed.
ALS showed up.
So he went back down to look after other officers.
He believes he
No pulse, observed cpr. Cain and Bowater involved.
Went down stairs to get defibrillator like device.
Hobble was removed. Handcuffs were removed.
ALS showed up.
So he went back down to look after other officers.
He believes he
Heard sone grunting noises.
At some point observed some blood from Myles nose.
When Myles was declared dead, he contained the scene.
Was made aware iio would be arriving.
Went to station for "defusing"
Donaldson.
Q. You arrived 33 minutes after 3.
Interview at 6:15
At some point observed some blood from Myles nose.
When Myles was declared dead, he contained the scene.
Was made aware iio would be arriving.
Went to station for "defusing"
Donaldson.
Q. You arrived 33 minutes after 3.
Interview at 6:15
Reviews iio notes now in court.
Recalls fire already there.
Says he did not prevent their access.
When he arrived Myles didn't need medical attention and scene was still active.
Q. If someone in hobble and handcuffs scene is safe.
A. Yes.
Q. We're you present when someone
Recalls fire already there.
Says he did not prevent their access.
When he arrived Myles didn't need medical attention and scene was still active.
Q. If someone in hobble and handcuffs scene is safe.
A. Yes.
Q. We're you present when someone
Told fire not to come up.
A. Didn't hear that.
Did not see swollen eyes, racoon eyes, broken nose. Blood.
Q. But you did notice Birzneck had blood on him.
A. Doesn't recall.
Now refers to note.
Note says Birzneck had blood, that is attributed to Myles.
Q. Police trained
A. Didn't hear that.
Did not see swollen eyes, racoon eyes, broken nose. Blood.
Q. But you did notice Birzneck had blood on him.
A. Doesn't recall.
Now refers to note.
Note says Birzneck had blood, that is attributed to Myles.
Q. Police trained
To avoid positional asphyxia.
A. Yes.
Joseph, officer counsel.
Explain beeping heard on radio.
A. Tells people to stay off radio. Emergency call being responded to.
Can be possible what you are saying will not be broadcast under those conditions.
Q. Is it your role to
A. Yes.
Joseph, officer counsel.
Explain beeping heard on radio.
A. Tells people to stay off radio. Emergency call being responded to.
Can be possible what you are saying will not be broadcast under those conditions.
Q. Is it your role to
Go on air?
No that is for those who are there.
Q. When you observed it's been around 24 minutes since first call.
A. Yes.
He knew several officers had been injured.
Q. If a member asked fire not to come would he accept that.
A. Yes, those involved.
No that is for those who are there.
Q. When you observed it's been around 24 minutes since first call.
A. Yes.
He knew several officers had been injured.
Q. If a member asked fire not to come would he accept that.
A. Yes, those involved.
Juror 1.
Qs about where he encountered injured officers
A. Folkestad and Sahota on the street.
Joseph intervenes.
Coroner says the documents on radio do not stipulate times of what officer did. Cant use those to document their actions. Only arrival and calls.
Joseph again.
Qs about where he encountered injured officers
A. Folkestad and Sahota on the street.
Joseph intervenes.
Coroner says the documents on radio do not stipulate times of what officer did. Cant use those to document their actions. Only arrival and calls.
Joseph again.
Coroner clarifies their proceeding is different than criminal or civil.
Now says many of jurors questions were not relevant.
This is not definitive, it is only a guide.
Juror 1.
When did fire get defibrillator.
A. Would be guessing. 3 or 4 minutes after arrival.
Now says many of jurors questions were not relevant.
This is not definitive, it is only a guide.
Juror 1.
When did fire get defibrillator.
A. Would be guessing. 3 or 4 minutes after arrival.
Juror 3.
Question about Charlie.
A. It is a call sign often used.
Juror 4
Q. Time Myles went limp.
A. A minute or two between.
Juror 5.
Q. Did he go to 7th floor. All in same room?
A. Yes to first. Some in second.
He did not hear announcement about not taking notes.
Question about Charlie.
A. It is a call sign often used.
Juror 4
Q. Time Myles went limp.
A. A minute or two between.
Juror 5.
Q. Did he go to 7th floor. All in same room?
A. Yes to first. Some in second.
He did not hear announcement about not taking notes.
**Jackel had testified that he went to scene because he had medical/heart equipment. So why didn't hectare it up immediately when he arrived?**
Josephson wants clarification on radio and what is heard or not on open air.
Sgt Jackel excused.
Break.
Sgt Jackel excused.
Break.
Resumes at 3:06.
Cst Chris Bowater.
Vpd constable since 2008.
Worked in patrol on the day.
Had been paramedic in Ottawa for 11.5 years.
On the day he was partnered with Cst Tan.
Arrived at 3:33 PM.
Knew incident of officer needing assistance. Few details.
Parked at Marine
Cst Chris Bowater.
Vpd constable since 2008.
Worked in patrol on the day.
Had been paramedic in Ottawa for 11.5 years.
On the day he was partnered with Cst Tan.
Arrived at 3:33 PM.
Knew incident of officer needing assistance. Few details.
Parked at Marine
And Joffre. Walked up Joffre.
Encountered Folkestad. Fell into him so he steadied him.
Encountered Sahota holding arms. Eyes wide open in fight or flight. Said was not alright.
Cst Tan took the two down to street.
Explains fight or flight eyes.
He continued on to lawn
Encountered Folkestad. Fell into him so he steadied him.
Encountered Sahota holding arms. Eyes wide open in fight or flight. Said was not alright.
Cst Tan took the two down to street.
Explains fight or flight eyes.
He continued on to lawn
Saw Cain, Spencer, Wong and Myles.
Myles in recovery position and breathing.
Only in shorts and double handcuff. Did not see hobble initially.
Photos put up.
He recognizes the scene but from opposite direction.
Saw Myles on other side of tree.
Underneath the tree.
Myles in recovery position and breathing.
Only in shorts and double handcuff. Did not see hobble initially.
Photos put up.
He recognizes the scene but from opposite direction.
Saw Myles on other side of tree.
Underneath the tree.
Near retaining wall.
Q. What each officer was doing.
A. Cant recall. Wong over near gray wall area.
Myles originally to left of tree trunk and right of retaining wall.
Saw Myles on right-side in recovery position. Could see rise and fall of chest. Breathing.
Can't recall legs.
Q. What each officer was doing.
A. Cant recall. Wong over near gray wall area.
Myles originally to left of tree trunk and right of retaining wall.
Saw Myles on right-side in recovery position. Could see rise and fall of chest. Breathing.
Can't recall legs.
At that time no officers around Myles. Spencer and Cain were away from him on other side of lawn.
Myles was not conscious.
Began to hear low moan. Began slow twisting motion of upper body. A foot or so from retaining wall. Sandy cliff nearby.
Worried he would roll off.
Myles was not conscious.
Began to hear low moan. Began slow twisting motion of upper body. A foot or so from retaining wall. Sandy cliff nearby.
Worried he would roll off.
Bowater suggested moving Myles to middle of lawn. He grabbed the hobble.
Myles moved and put in recovery position.
Myles began to move again.
Continued to moan and twist upper body. Told to remain still, ambulance was coming.
Only restraint then was hobble.
Myles moved more
Myles moved and put in recovery position.
Myles began to move again.
Continued to moan and twist upper body. Told to remain still, ambulance was coming.
Only restraint then was hobble.
Myles moved more
Grunted more.
Cain held down arm.
Says Myles yelled out "what the fuck" and began spitting.
Cst Ravenguard now said to be on scene.
Myles twisted from Spencer's grip, onto stomach, face into grass.
Cain put Myles in recovery position. Red, tongue hanging out. No breath.
Cain held down arm.
Says Myles yelled out "what the fuck" and began spitting.
Cst Ravenguard now said to be on scene.
Myles twisted from Spencer's grip, onto stomach, face into grass.
Cain put Myles in recovery position. Red, tongue hanging out. No breath.
Sternal rub with no affect.
It is painful and should elicit response.
Bowater checked for pulse. Carotid artery. None. Handcuffs removed. Bowater put on gloves, began cpr.
Myles rolled to leftbof where he had been. On his back.
Bowater relieved by Burnaby fire.
It is painful and should elicit response.
Bowater checked for pulse. Carotid artery. None. Handcuffs removed. Bowater put on gloves, began cpr.
Myles rolled to leftbof where he had been. On his back.
Bowater relieved by Burnaby fire.
Myles pronounced at 4:12.
Heard this from ALS medic.
Bowater used his written narrative from day after and 2 iio interviews.
Made notes in his notebook. Written immediately after.
Still on scene until 6:30. Iio and ident on site.
Q. Did you see strikes.
A. No.
Heard this from ALS medic.
Bowater used his written narrative from day after and 2 iio interviews.
Made notes in his notebook. Written immediately after.
Still on scene until 6:30. Iio and ident on site.
Q. Did you see strikes.
A. No.
Q. Other training or tools for future.
A. No.
Donaldson.
Q. Arrived at 3:33.
A. Burnaby fire were not there.
Refer to notes.
A. Only dealings with Burnaby fire after he was working on Myles. They worked around him to put on defibrillator.
Doesn't know when he started
A. No.
Donaldson.
Q. Arrived at 3:33.
A. Burnaby fire were not there.
Refer to notes.
A. Only dealings with Burnaby fire after he was working on Myles. They worked around him to put on defibrillator.
Doesn't know when he started
Chest compressions.
A couple minutes, 2 to 7 minutes after arrival.
Photo put up.
Spor where he first saw Myles was a concern so he, Cain and Spencer moved Myles across lawn.
Three people moved him "decently smooth."
Myles spat as if to get something out of his mouth, not at
A couple minutes, 2 to 7 minutes after arrival.
Photo put up.
Spor where he first saw Myles was a concern so he, Cain and Spencer moved Myles across lawn.
Three people moved him "decently smooth."
Myles spat as if to get something out of his mouth, not at
Someone
Bowater saw him as no threat to get away because of hobble.
Even standing would be difficult.
**But Myles was beaten while hobbled**
Q. After Myles rolls onto stomach on ground he was held.
A. Disagree.
A. Disagrees officer was kneeling on him.
Bowater saw no blood
Bowater saw him as no threat to get away because of hobble.
Even standing would be difficult.
**But Myles was beaten while hobbled**
Q. After Myles rolls onto stomach on ground he was held.
A. Disagree.
A. Disagrees officer was kneeling on him.
Bowater saw no blood
On face.
Despite doing cpr while Myles was on his back.
Q. Discussion about use of force on scene.
A. Doesn't recall.
Q. Different members told you what happened.
A. Don't recall.
He had conversation with ambulance personnel about force.
Shipman said conversation w/Chris
Despite doing cpr while Myles was on his back.
Q. Discussion about use of force on scene.
A. Doesn't recall.
Q. Different members told you what happened.
A. Don't recall.
He had conversation with ambulance personnel about force.
Shipman said conversation w/Chris
He was only officer Chris.
Nothing of conversations appears in statement.
Q. You knew iio would be involved.
A. Didn't know how that worked.
Juror 1.
Q. Where did you determine chest was moving, how close?
A. 6 to 10 feet.
No movement otherwise.
Juror 4.
Q. Tone of wtf?
Nothing of conversations appears in statement.
Q. You knew iio would be involved.
A. Didn't know how that worked.
Juror 1.
Q. Where did you determine chest was moving, how close?
A. 6 to 10 feet.
No movement otherwise.
Juror 4.
Q. Tone of wtf?
A. Said in confusion.
Coroner.
Q. Where was cst Tan?
A. He sent her back down.
Cst Bowater excused.
Cst Tan had been excused earlier. Moved over to Monday.
Adjourned at 3:56.
Coroner.
Q. Where was cst Tan?
A. He sent her back down.
Cst Bowater excused.
Cst Tan had been excused earlier. Moved over to Monday.
Adjourned at 3:56.
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