Thread by @critcrim

Day 10 of the inquest into the Vancouver police killing of Myles Gray starts today at 9 AM.

Scheduled
M. Massine
Sgt. J. Roberts (VPD)
J. Bard (Police Services)
Supt. S. Horne (VPD)

Lots of copaganda incoming.

Livestream
www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/content/li…

#JusticeForMylesGray

VPD reserved a large proportion of seats in the gallery for "VPD analysts" meaning that there were not enough seats for family supporters, other observers, and media.

Police prioritized yet again.

There has been a substantial delay in starting proceedings.

No reason given.

Widespread frustration with VPD dominating the gallery.

The inquest is now almost an hour late in starting. No announcement why and the courtroom is crawling with cops.

Several media and other observers very frustrated that there is no room in gallery.

Remember, the reason for that is because cop interests and egos were prioritized.

To be clear, VPD had seats reserved for them ahead of time. Media and observers who were physically present were turned away for cops who were not present.

But Sheriff told media if they wanted to be inside they should "show up earlier."

They were there earlier than any cops.

Media, civil rights, independent observers were pushed out of the coroner's courtroom so that cops in uniform could intimidate people and show solidarity with the use of force copagandists testifying today.

After a two hour+ delay it starts.

There is no audio playing in the media room.

VPD's counsel jumps right in opposing a photo from the scene being introduced. It would show the extreme violence inflicted on Myles.

They don't want people to see what the cops did.

Police counsel are claiming a tally showing jurors what happened would be "prejudicial."

Absolute ghouls.

They are trying to prevent the jurors from seeing what the VPD did to Myles Gray that day.

Can you say "cover up?"

Police lawyers were horrified of photos being introduced yesterday too.

#JusticeForMylesGray

Now saying photos of what cops did to Myles Gray would have an emotional or traumatic effect on jurors.

Coroner's counsel is agreeing with police counsel (of course).

Now saying the photos show discreet injuries, but the pathologist showed so many injuries that he couldn't

"Tease out the cause of death."

So photos would be prejudicial.

Donaldson speaks to relevance. Rejects claim of prejudice.

Notes, he attempted to put photos in yesterday and several objections were raised.

Coroner considers comments made from gallery (?)

Says photos should have been introduced properly.

Agrees he would have had a different view if they were introduced before witnesses.

Says it's improper to allow them now.

Evidence of injuries are well documented in the testimonies.

Agrees photos could have added value

At proper time, not now.

Coroner rules photos will not be allowed.

Resumes testimony of copaganda use of force trainer Massine. Continuation from yesterday.

He goes back to his copaganda slideshow. Jurors can see this garbage but not actual photo evidence of police violence.

Why is a police trainer allowed to ramble on with a pre-packaged copaganda presentation drawn from his supposed training classes.

Talk about "prejudicial."

This is farcical. He's not even discussing the use of force training and protocols cops had on the day they killed Myles.

Police use of force, as even he explains, is much to do about police feelings.

If they "feel" threatened they will use, in his words, almost anything as lethal force.

Cop feelings are lethal.

He's spinning a fairy tale about cops building rapport, introducing themselves, using first names.

Cops didn't do any of that before immediately going after, pepper spraying and beating Myles.

How often do they do it now?

Respectful 2-way relationships.

Cops are clueless of structural power imbalances and the unaccountable authority they wield.

Which the people they encounter lack completely.

Two-way indeed.

The police recertification for crisis intervention and deescalation is a 3 hour online session. Every 3 years.

But hey, he says they have "professional actors" so it must be good.

Cops gonna copaganda.

Cops absolutely love getting overly excited about their garbage "training" programs.

Training calls bring in lots of public money for them though so why not.

Police recruits "aren't into" policy and procedures.

Surprise, surprise.

Ooh, apparently "mental health consumers" have some negative experiences with police.

Ya think?

Oh, they have good videos of "mental health consumers."

One slide is "What's the point to this training?"

Well that is the question.

"Only a fool would believe police can resolve everything using this training."

Well, yeah.

Now going on about how cops are impacted.

Please.

Coroner's counsel asks about tunnel vision.

A. Can be overwhelming to some officers.

McKnight. Q about containment.
A. One officer should take a leadership, coordination, direction role. Get ambulance, fire. Assess whole area.

Often cops fighting miss real signs of compliance or ending struggle. And keep going.

McKnight tries to discredit IIO head as a use of force expert.

He says cops already do what the IIO head recommended.

Finally says he has a bias as a trainer.

Says BC training is #1. Yikes.

Big dollar cost for training.

Yep, that's it.

Training, no matter actual effect, is a big money winner for cops.

And always a primary recommendation of inquests.

$$$$

Donaldson.
Q. He said yesterday that a vascular neck restraint is a very safe technique.

A. Injury to throat area is possible.

Q. Respiratory neck restraint.
A. Tries to say the subject causes it to be improperly applied.

Q. Danger that person affected can have primal response

Q. Attempt to control using compression of trachea will result in escalated response as person tries to stop from dying.

A. Agrees.

Q. If you can't breathe, you can't willingly submit.
A. People in fear often submit.

Q. Research paper says, if you can't breathe it's

Physiologically impossible to submit.

A. He disagrees.

Then officer counsel Joseph objects of course.

Coroner interrupts Donaldson's attempt to respond.

Coroner says there is nothing to link neck restraint to trachea injury and breathing problems in Myles.

This is incredible

A. He disagrees that neck restraint is ineffective.
Partially ruled out in BC because of risks, but cops can use anything they want for lethal force.
So not completely ruled out.

This again hits the point that if cops say there are afraid, they are given the free excuse to kill.

More objections against the family's counsel.

Now being chastised by Coroner again.

Reminder that the coroner presiding over this inquest is a former RCMP officer. Yeah.

Handcuffs are restraint not use of force.

Break until 1:45.

Resumes with copaganda trainer.

Officers counsel going on more nonsense about "pre-assaultive" cues like a "thousand yard stare."

Don't stare at cops cause they'll view it as a pre-assaultive cue and kill you.

Devoting hours upon hours to this copaganda police training diversion is an insult to the entire process of this inquest.

Especially when cops are able to take up much of the gallery seating to show support for their buddy.

Now officer counsel Joseph is back on the thoroughly discredited excited delirium nonsense.

The trainer says he wrote the use of force policy on excited delirium. So he's a fantasy author as well.

The idea that cops training in scenarios with other cops will translate to how they respond in the real world is something.

This trainer even says they don't want to tax the officers so much that they could fail the scenarios.

So they're going out with made to pass training.

And were being told, oh look they passed made to pass training so don't worry about it.

Cops live in this self-referential, self-satisfied environment.

And they know it doesn't matter because they are an unaccountable force.

Challenge question again.

It is a very strong word he says.

Q. Is it used in training.
A. He says it's not ego based. If ego comes in for an officer it becomes personal.

That seems very much part of what happened here.

Cop egos run wild.

This copagandist now says there are cases of people being shot in the head and going on to kill officers.

He is not asked to provide his sources.

Juror 4.
You don't know a cue is pre-assaultive unless the lead to an assault.

A. He's not ready to accept that.
More trust your gut stuff, like the cops who killed Myles Gray put it.

Copagandist suggests cops could get this from being involved in fighting sports. WTF.

Based on officer guesses.

So all this copaganda training and it still comes down to cop guesses.

And cops always guess that everything is a pre-assaultive threat.

So throw the training out the window anyway.

Now on excited delirium training.

Good grief.

Don't assume excited delirium because someone was sweating.

Ummmm.

Now he's suggesting it could go on for days and someone could die from it.

The pathologist made clear there is no evidence people die from "excited delirium."

Here we go.

His want is for a dedicated, fully staffed and resourced training center open 24/7 for all departments.

More cop $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

The former RCMP officer coroner now seems to be taking an opportunity to editorially against the IIO head's expressed concern about the police approach.

If they're going to insist on this they should bring back the IIO to respond.

The coroner is now an RCMP again in this convo.

Copagandist says even a top notch skilled officer "could have a bad day."

Again, if that's the case this training discussion becomes even more frivolous.

All the training in the world doesn't stop cops from killing people.

Had a bad day right.

This is only shop talk for the RCMP coroner with another longtime cop.

This is shameful.

J. Bard (Police Services) talking about bodycams.

Standards.

We've heard throughout this case that officers violated VPD policy. With no accountability, still cops, several promoted.

Why would we believe cops will adhere to bodycam standards knowing there's no accountability

Started working on them in 2016.
An emerging tool.

In BC Delta police initiated a pilot and are rolling it out in 2023.

VPD pilot. Expanded to patrol upcoming.

If camera not activated when it should have been, cops simply document it.

Policing Standards. No standard on note

Taking with the Ministry.

Mixed results on usefulness of bodycams assisting with investigations of police. And on public perceptions.

Bodycams are extremely costly.
Privacy concerns.
Calgary showed it reduced complaint investigation times.
No calculated return on investment.

BCCLA raised concerns about privacy and investing further in police equipment versus investing in other social resources.

Calgary $1600-1700 per year, per camera to operate.

Next witness.

Sergeant John Roberts.
Retired from VPD on Monday. Hired back on Tuesday.
Special Municipal Constable.

VPD Officer Safety Tactics Training Team

Started in Corrections 1993.
VPD in 2003.

Q. Note taking.
A. 2003 training. Policy in relation to note taking.

Policy that speaks to note taking. Doesn't have current policy.

Training. 4 training cycles per year.
Firearm, oc, taser, crisis intervention, vascular neck restraint. Some have 3 year training cycle.

Special challenges in Vancouver.

DTES.
Entertainment District.

450 taser operators right now in VPD.

Started training recruits in taser.
Last 2 training sessions.
Goal is to have all officers with tasers.

Crisis and deescalation. Tactical Training Center since 2009.

Gun ranges. A classroom.

Scenarios.

Calls deescalation a "buzzword."

Not really a tactic or technique.

They use real subjects for use of force training in baton and oc spray.

Hire people to be subjected to it.

"Dealing with people is the business police officers are in."

Big yikes.

He deals with practical side, not academic side.

He says officers get not enough training.

Police judo in their building. They've hired a civilian judo instructor that officers can take for free.

Q. Specialized populations. Visually impaired.

A. Not his area.

There's traditional law enforcement and social justice issues(?)

Training on mental health issues is hard.

Benefit of distance.

Subject behavior officer response report.

Working on academic project with SFU.

Research on deescalation.

Thinks they're already doing a lot of the stuff talked about here.

Wants bodycams and tasers.
More $$$$

Q. About shifting culture. Officer culture as a group.

A. A culture in many professions.
Hasn't seen anything negative.

Come. On.

And there's your thin blue line. Cop won't say he's ever seen any negative police culture. Been a cop for 20 years.

Q. Are officers actually reporting other officers excessive force as mandated?

A. Feels there's a shift. Very not specific at all.
But says it is happening.

Coroner. Has there been a big difference since this incident?

A. Says it's been changing since Dziekanski was killed.

A. Says statistically cops are doing the right thing in talking to people.

Then says media or social media might be giving a different perception.

He has worked a number of shifts with a mental health nurse.

Can't even say if a mental health nurse would have helped that day.

Says encountering Myles was "Like trying to play tennis with someone who doesn't have a racket."

Cops are simply f**king gross.

Says no police calls are routine. Prefers to call them all unknown risks.

Juror 1.
Q. Are tasers actually safe.

**Good question, they're not. People have been killed in taser deployments**

A. His biggest concern is officer safety.

Says someone thanked him for tasing him.

Juror 1 is getting at a question about someone striking an officer in self defense.

Coroner doesn't allow the question.

Break until 4:45.

Coroner counsel decided a proposed question from the gallery is not relevant and won't be asked.

Roberts excused.

Final witness.

Supt. Horne (VPD) held over until Monday.

Unreal.