Thread by @KlasfeldReports

Good morning from New York.

Now that E. Jean Carroll's testimony ended, she's expected to call witnesses she says will corroborate her account. Two, Lisa Birnbach and Carol Martin, were friends she said she told at the time.

Background, @lawcrimenews lawandcrime.com/live-trials/e-…

Trial begins for the day:

Lisa Birnbach takes the stand.

Birnbach testifies that Carroll told her about Trump allegedly raping her "5 to 7 minutes" after it happened.

Birnbach says that she's the author of 22 books, mostly apolitical.

Birnbach says that she "admired" Carroll's "stylish" writing.

Birnbach on working together with Carroll:

"We concocted a pilot together with TV producers and directors," a pilot that would have been movie show,

Asked if she knew who Donald Trump was, Birnbach replies: "Of course!"

"He was a fixture of New York tabloid life," she adds, when prompted to explain why.

Birnbach says Trump approached her about a story profiling his plans for Mar-a-Lago. She says she flew on his plane in January 1996.

She stayed there for two nights, she said.

"I carried a small tape recorder and lots and lots of cassettes."

Birnbach says she told Trump she was going to record everything he said in a "stream of consciousness" tour of Mar-a-Lago.

The profile ran as New York Mag cover story on Feb. 12, 1996.

The jury sees the cover.

Birnbach describes the telephone call with Carroll.

Echoing Carroll's account, Birnbach acknowledges Carroll may have been laughing, describing her as having a "surge of adrenaline."

Birnbach describes her reaction to Carroll saying she followed Trump into the lingerie dept.:

"I was surprised that she did that. I thought it was kind of nutty. I didn't think it was dangerous because I had just spent a few days with him. He didn't strike me as dangerous."

Birnbach says Carroll repeated the sentence:

"He pulled down my tights. He pulled down my tights."

She said that Carroll appeared to still be processing what happened to her.

Birnbach says Carroll told her Trump penetrated her with his penis.

Birnbach says she told Carroll: "He raped you. I'll take you to the police."

Carroll responded: "We had a fight," according to Birnbach.

Describing Carroll avoiding the word "rape," Birnbach said: "She did not like that word. She didn't want me to say that word.'

Birnbach:

"She said: 'Promise me that you will never speak of this again, and promise me you'll tell no one.' And I promised her both of those things."

Birnbach describes her relationship with Carroll today:

"We are very close, close, close friends."

Birnbach says that she never discussed sexual assault with Carroll again until 2019, when Carroll went public with her allegations.

Trump's attorney alleges that Carroll and her friends are politically motivated, and her attorney seeks to defuse those arguments by eliciting Birnbach's politics. She's Democratic and supported Hillary Clinton.

After Trump won in 2016, she says she was: "Surprised and upset.

Birnbach says that she thought the book Carroll was writing in 2017 was a "travelogue."

She said that she learned that it included Carroll's reflections on her life when Carroll sent her the excerpt with Trump's alleged assault in 2019.

Birnbach says that Carroll informed her the magazine's fact-checkers would reach out to her.

Carroll's book stated that she told a friend right after, but didn't name her, Birnbach says.

Birnbach recalls telling Carroll "how brave she was" and "what a good piece" it was.

Birnbach testifies that she requested — during the fact-checking process — that she remain unnamed to avoid the wrath of Trump's supporters.

Carroll's lawyer shows the jury a 2019 message from her client to Birnbach, stating that she informed the fact-checker "we agreed that you would publish it when I croaked."

Carroll was in intensive care at the time.

Birnbach says she eventually agreed to be identified publicly by the New York Times, believing Carroll's account would be more powerful with a name attached.

The piece ran.

Then, Birnbach says, she received "pretty awful, antisemitic messages" from Trump fans on Twitter.

Birnbach:

"The book made me a bit uncomfortable, and I never said it to her."

She refers to the contrast of Carroll's "hair-raising" experiences and the book's "breezy" writing style.

Asked whether the book including Carroll's other sexual abuse allegations, Birnbach said: "Yes."

Birnbach said she never heard about those before.

Q: Did it surprise you that Carroll never told you about those incidents?
A: No.

Q: Why not?
A: Ms. Carroll is a very up person."

Birnbach on Carroll:

"She's not a victim. She doesn't want anybody's pity."

"Instead of wallowing, she puts on lipstick, dusts herself off and moves on."

Carroll included Birnbach in the dedication.

Despite her qualms about going public, Birnbach said, she later accepted media interviews, including NYT and NPR.

Asked why she did that, she says: "Because I was telling the truth. Because my friend was telling the truth."

"I felt strongly that I could be a supportive friend."

Birnbach is upfront about her dislike for Trump.

Asked if she called Trump "a narcissistic sociopath," Birnbach replies: "That sounds right."

Q: Have you described him as Vladimir Putin's agent?
A: It's quite possible that I did.

Asked if she likened Trump to an "infection like herpes" that you can't get rid of, she says she did.

Birnbach:

"I'm here because I'm her friend, and I want the world to know that she was telling the truth."

Cross-examination begins with questioning about Birnbach's political donations and social media posts.

Trump's attorney quotes Birnbach writing in one post:

"In my entire life, I never felt the hatred that I feel for this person."

Trump's attorney quotes Birnbach on Alexandra Pelosi's podcast.

"I cannot listen to Donald Trump. I feel like it irritates an infection or he is an effect."

Trump's attorney offers an exhibit as "evidence of bias."

Judge Kaplan (wryly): "Oh, really?"

Trump's lawyer laughs.

Birnbach agrees that Carroll recommended her for a job at The Daily Beast.

Trump's attorney, W. Perry Brandt, shows Birnbach an email of her discussing promoting Carroll's book: "The main thing is to SELL BOOKS!!"

Asked about the email, Birnbach responds: "She was on a book tour!"

"Yes, that is how writers make money."

On redirect, Carroll's attorney noted the email also noted that Carroll couldn't go on the tour herself.

Birnbach says that there were security concerns.

"The concern was for her safety because followers of Mr. Trump were threatening her."

Birnbach notes that Trump wasn't the president at the time and had a reputation as a womanizer:

"My friend was not raped by a president. She was assaulted by a guy, a real estate guy who liked women and harassed a lot of women."

Q: "Would you ever go into court and perjure yourself to prevent Trump from becoming president?"

A: "Never in a million years!'

Birnbach's testimony concludes.

Next up: Jessica Leeds, one of Trump's other accusers (seen on left here)

Background here lawandcrime.com/live-trials/e-…

Leeds claims she had been seated next to Trump on a first-class seat on a flight from Texas to New York in 1979.

She sets the scene at the start of her testimony.

Leeds testifies "all of a sudden" Trump decided to "kiss and grope" her. She said that there was "no conversation," and it came "out of the blue."

"He was grabbing my breasts. It was like he had 40 zillion hands."

Leeds:

"I didn't tell anybody."

She says it "didn't occur" her to tell anybody. She says she waited on the plane for everyone to leave and drove home.

She says she didn't tell anyone after either.

"In that time and place [...] men could basically get away with a lot."

Jurors shown tape of Trump responding to Access Hollywood tape in debate with Clinton.

Asked about it, Leeds says: "I was furious."

Q: Why?
A: Because he was lying.

Q: How did you know?
A: The experience I had with him. The stories I heard from other people.

Defense table: Objection.
(The hearsay part is stricken.)

Lunch recess.

We resume at 2 p.m. ET.

Direct examination ends with Leeds' account of seeing Trump at a fundraising gala some time later, where he allegedly told her:

“I remember you. You’re that c— from the airplane,” Trump said, according to her testimony.

Joe Tacopina up for cross-ex.

Tacopina: You couldn't imagine him making a pass at a woman.

Leeds says that's correct.

After Tacopina asks if what Trump allegedly did to Leeds on the plane was a "pass," Leeds scoffs and says no.

Tacopina asks Leeds about the date of the flight, and Leeds says she doesn't know.

Q: At the time, you had no idea who Donald Trump was.
A: That's true.

Tacopina says that, as far as she knew, he was just some random guy on an airplane.

Leeds agrees.

Leeds:

"He started putting his hand up my skirt."

Q: You said that the incident took just a few seconds.
A: Probably.

Tacopina notes that Leeds said "15 minutes" on Anderson Cooper.

Leeds responds she never thought of it before and answered that off-the-cuff.

That transcript. cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/16…

Q: You didn’t say anything about it to your family?
A: No.
Q: You didn’t say anything about it to your friends?
A: No.

Tacopina says she didn’t know who the man was.

Leeds responds that she knew he was Donald Trump.

Based on his introduction, Tacopina responds.

She agrees.

Questioning turns to the fundraiser: The Humane Society Gala.

Q: It was held at Saks Fifth Avenue.
A: Yes.

Leeds says she was assigned to distributed seat assignments.

Tacopina incredulously repeats Leeds' account of Trump's remarks at the fundraiser.

He notes that Trump allegedly said, "in front of his pregnant wife": "I remember you. You're the c— from the airplane."

The lawyer notes this was years after a brief interaction, years later.

Tacopina notes Leeds' testimony that her hairstyle and dress changed at the time of the gala.

Leeds agreed she never sued or reported Trump.

Redirect begins.

Leeds:

"Most of the jobs that I've held — All of the jobs that I've held over the years [have been] in male-dominated fields."

Much of the banter was "frequently sexual in nature," adding "that was just part of the workplace."

Leeds says that when she was upgraded on a plane, "It was almost always, 99% men in first class."

Carroll's lawyer asks her whether she's making up this account and committing perjury to get at Trump. She replies no.

Q: Is there any doubt in your mind who assaulted you on that plane?
A: None.

Q: Who assaulted you?
A: Donald Trump

Next witness: Robert Salerno, an ex-Bergdorf Goodman exec

Salerno says that he's currently retired.

Prompted by Carroll's attorney, Salerno provides his CV. He was senior VP of admin at Bergdorf Goodman, before moving on as CEO of a designer.

He says he never met Carroll before or spoke to her.

Salerno testifies that he never met Trump, either — but he adds that he's seen Trump inside Bergdorf Goodman.

Q: Were there security cameras on the 6th floor?
A: I don't think so.

Salerno notes that the tech was much worse in the mid-1990s, relying on tapes. He believes those were maintained for "not very long."

Asked how many people could fit into a dressing room, Salerno answers "at least two," but he doesn't think more than that.

"A lot of the time the doors were not locked."

"They kept them open, or they propped them open."

Salerno:

"Lingerie was a destination department."

Salerno notes Bergdorf Goodman wasn't Victoria's Secret, and so if customers went to that section, they were looking for it.

Cross starts after an afternoon recess.

Trump's attorney notes that Bergdorf emphasized "personal service."

Asked if he recalled seeing Trump in the men's store or the women's store, Salerno replies: "I believe it was the women's store."