Thread by @Firezstarter1

@FinestYew @hellfire_81 1. The DRDO developed a 105mm APFSDS for the Vijayanta. This was used to develop one for the T-72, Arjun. OFB outsourced propellant procurement for T-72 round, rounds stored outside in heat, leaked, some even exploded. IA cancelled it went for an Israeli round. That TOT failed...

@FinestYew @hellfire_81 2. The then OFB chairman got arrested by CBI for corruption. IMI blacklisted, round supply both imported and TOT stopped. Poland also tried TOT for same round, failed, turned to Rheinmetall. We'd blacklisted RM too for a seperate deal. Meanwhile, we had almost no rounds at all.

@FinestYew @hellfire_81 3. IA's VK Singh creates a racket, almost drummed out for his outburst. In panic, we sign a deal with Russia for any round, turns out all that's export ready is circa 1986 Mango, BM-42. We import thousands, OFB to license mfr in India. DRDO asked to restart program (2014).

@FinestYew @hellfire_81 4. DRDO's FSAPDS program all but cancelled. IA disinterest in Arjun and also no follow on program for a Mk2 after initial Mk1. They relaunch program, and develop Mk2 for Arjun and T-72. Arjun one goes into production. T series one...

@FinestYew @hellfire_81 5. Is still pending. IA wants new round to significantly outperform existing Mango at level of new export available Russian rounds (published 600mm DOP). Issue is...

@FinestYew @hellfire_81 6. Not just significant under investment in mnfg capex, FSAPDS rounds require exotic alloys, extremely expensive vacuum furnaces but also state of the art sabots (parasitic mass), mixed material penetrators etc.

@FinestYew @hellfire_81 7. But that existing T-72 and T-90 guns are shackled by design restrictions. You can propel the round faster (better propellant, higher gun tube pressure, longer gun tube) and also need state of the art materials (to address complex arrays) , but also very long rods (deeper hit).

@FinestYew @hellfire_81 8. T-72 /T-90 can't withstand more pressure (unless you change the whole gun), can't fit in longer rods (issue with autoloader). So we are grappling with a huge challenge. Meanwhile T-72s remain with obsolete rounds.

@FinestYew @hellfire_81 9. T-90s are marginally better off because apart from the KE rounds they fire the ultra expensive, complex but slow INVAR ATGM which can penetrate ERA and hit behind. It's broad performance figures are known, vulnerable to APS, getting long in the tooth too. But better than T-72.

@FinestYew @hellfire_81 10. So new plan appears to take the T-90 turret and put it on the T-72, so it too can fire the INVAR. But IA, wants a new ATGM too. None on the market. LAHAT failed in Indian trials on Arjun.

@FinestYew @hellfire_81 11. Arjun now, thanks to DRDO persistence has a new FSAPDS and soon, a new ATGM (called CLGM). Similar to LAHAT but tailored to IA SQR including closer range firefights. A variant may offer hope for the T series too.

@FinestYew @hellfire_81 12. Issue with that is T series rounds are two piece. Rounds plus pusher. Arjun round is one piece. Will have to be adopted. Fundamentally, ATGMs remain vulnerable to APS, especially active (Iron Fist, Trophy, GL5 etc) . GL5 is on Pak VT-4. Whether full spec variant unknown.

@FinestYew @hellfire_81 13. Bottomline, FSAPDS development remains a weak spot for us especially given our lack of mfg infra (high end vacuum furnaces, test kit - you've to literally figure out how hypersonic rounds interact with struck metal arrays, in real-time ). But, limited funds. "Make do."

@FinestYew @hellfire_81 14. We are seeking to get around that classical approach, longer & longer, higher power rounds with other solutions. Remember, we can't use them anyhow on the T series as the tanks can't load them, and the guns can't take the increased pressure either.

@FinestYew @hellfire_81 15. Till they arrive, INVAR is the only game in town, and perhaps CLGM, but both vulnerable to APS. Might try tactics, fire an FSAPDS or Heat, launch an ATGM thereafter, saturate the APS, easier said than done. Because T series autoloader has a fixed cycle time.

@FinestYew @hellfire_81 16. Other issue, lest I forget. The T series ballistic computer doesn't allow you to accept non Russian rounds. So the IA went back to DRDO and they took the Arjun one and modified it for the T series tanks. Made by Tata. So far, no indications it's been ordered yet.

@FinestYew @hellfire_81 17. In short as far as the T-72s are considered, they are obsolete. The T-90s are getting there. A T-72/T-90 hybrid may keep them going for some time, but increased turret weight means new engines and transmission too. Another engineering & funding challenge.

@FinestYew @hellfire_81 18. As far as T-90s are concerned, they've other issues, their primary sight conks off at high heat. French sight overheats. DRDO has a new sight with a TI matrix they funded the Israelis for, overall sight licensed to BEL, that should, solve that issue (fingers crossed).

@FinestYew @hellfire_81 19. We also have an indigenous APS under development, will crack that too. A next gen ERA is ready as well. But fundamentally, the FSAPDS issue with the T-90/T-72 is a significant challenge, more so for the T-72, no ATGM even.

@FinestYew @hellfire_81 20. This is what happens when you import a product without caring one whit for it's long term roadmap and then struggling to fix it's issues on its own and keeping it current. Russia decided to make a clean sheet break with Armata but can't afford it either (and its a testbed).

@FinestYew @hellfire_81 21. If not for the Arjun, and DRDO's tendency to stick around even where it's not even invited, we wouldn't even have a Mk2 FSAPDS program or an ATGM, or tank sights, armor or next gen ERA or IFDSS (fire detection and suppression suite).

@FinestYew @hellfire_81 22. Thankfully that's brought us some time, T series have new commanders/drivers sights, added home grown fire detection and suppression (no surprises why, looking at Ukraine/Iraq), new ERA (desi Mk2 outperforms K-5 on T-90). Rest well. T-72s got new Israeli gunner's sights too.

@FinestYew @hellfire_81 But fundamental issues with firepower, underpowered propulsion remain. Putting the T-90 turret, engine/transmission on/into T-72 hulls might get us a few more years. Who knows.

@FinestYew @hellfire_81 23. We as usual took the easy way out by ordering more T-90s, those are likely in Ukraine now, and not likely to come anytime fast, given the war will drag on another year or two. Good stuff.

@FinestYew @hellfire_81 24. Meanwhile OFB (erstwhile) happily announced that it had started making the licensed Mango rounds a few days back. Some silver lining if we actually got good manufacturing & test infra along with it. Might help us with own stuff. Bharat Forge is also making Arjun Mk2 rounds.

@FinestYew @hellfire_81 25. We fund peanuts and expect miracles that isn't changing anytime soon. Ask @sriramthg lol. However, some + for IA in that some upgrades are coming through and better networking data/sharing, higher focus on serviceability, spares etc. Getting some basics in place.

@FinestYew @hellfire_81 @sriramthg 26. Having said that we've made multiple flawed procurement decisions and how those will impact us in a protracted conflict, we don't know. One can only hope it's not at peak summer in the Thar. With none of our IFVs having any AC, or space to put Peltier based solutions...

@FinestYew @hellfire_81 @sriramthg 27. Not all roses, not all bleak either, stating it as it is. We need to do far better. A clean sheet NGMBT/IFV design and not take some South Korean or Russian design and call it Indian. We will find out the issues with those imports another decade later. As is the norm.