Thread by @KGETnews

The trial of Trezell and Jacqueline West is back in session. Judge Charles Brehmer told the jury that a couple days ago there was an objection to a motion to strike regarding a witness, and he struck testimony related to initial contact w children and county counsel. #WestsTrial

The Wests are charged with crimes including murder in the deaths of Orrin, 4, and Orson, 3, and the trial is now in its 20th day. It is expected to wrap up soon. #WestsTrial

Alekxia Torres Stallings, lead counsel for Jacqueline West, has called Dr. Susan Napolitano to the stand. She is an expert witness who the defense will use in an to show the testimony of the Wests' eldest child was influenced by interviewers and isn't reliable. #WestsTrial

Napolitano is a clinical and forensic psychologist. #WestsTrial

Her clinical practice involves helping people through her private practice. Her forensic practice "is the place where my psychological knowledge intersects with the law." She provides answers to complex legal questions regarding child forensic interviews. #WestsTrial

Napolitano is going over her education and qualifications. #WestsTrial

The youngest child Napolitano has evaluated is 18 months, and she has treated children as young as 2 or 3 who have experienced trauma. #WestsTrial

Napolitano testified she has been part of FBI investigations where they relied on her. She also worked with other agencies, and has interviewed children regarding allegations of abuse. #WestsTrial

Napolitano said she has testified about 150 times, in criminal, civil and federal courts. She has at times been appointed by the court. When it comes to criminal matters she testifies about 50% of the time for the prosecution, the other 50% for the defense. #WestsTrial

Napolitano testified yesterday was the first time she met Trezell and Jacqueline West. She said sometimes she avoids getting to know the parties in a case to avoid bias. She has not met the Wests' four other children. #WestsTrial

She primarily was asked to look at forensic interviews of the children, Napolitano said. #WestsTrial

She has been examining this case for about a year, Napolitano said. #WestsTrial

She charges $350 an hour for forensic work, and was approved for 100 hours of work on this case. #WestsTrial

Napolitano said she has reviewed police reports that were summaries of the first forensic interviews, and one related to Wanda West, Trezell's mother. She has watched interviews of the Wests' children and looked at the transcripts and CPS summaries. #WestsTrial

Napolitano testified she listened to parts of the testimony of the boys at trial. She has prepared a PowerPoint to assist in her testimony today. #WestsTrial

A child forensic interview flows from specific training, the most appropriate way to question a child to make sure the interviewer's beliefs don't influence the child. There are a number of protocols that have been together, a list of dos and don'ts, Napolitano said. #WestsTrial

The goal of a forensic interviewer is to prevent a false conviction or acquittal in child abuse cases based on the interview with the child. #WestsTrial

Napolitano is going over older cases. Prior to 1975 there was a mentality of what happens in your home is your own business, she said. After 1975 that changed, there was an ideological swing to protect people in the home. #WestsTrial

"There were some waves of hysteria that took place in the 1980s and the 1990s," she said. People began suspecting Satanic child abuse rings -- including Bakersfield's own Stoll case -- where children were overzealously questioned to put people in prison. #WestsTrial

Large numbers of people were convicted on child interviews alone, Napolitano said. When later examined, the evidence was found to be "flimsy," she said. These cases led to changes in how children were questioned. #WestsTrial

The forensic psychology field developed as a result. As a result of cases, there were recommendations for a more systematic protocol of how to question children when abuse allegations were involved, Napolitano said. #WestsTrial

How to question children has been fine-tuned over the decades based on research from forensic interviews and other social studies where we have learned about the suggestibility of children, Napolitano said. #WestsTrial

One study dealt with misinformation. Children were playing "Simon says" and were asked to touch their stomach and another child's nose. One month later social workers interviewed the children, and half the social workers knew nothing about the study. #WestsTrial

The other half were told children may have been asked to touch a child's toe. On that side, a "decent amount" recalled they were asked to touch someone's toe. Touching a toe never happened but the children said it did based on the question. #WestsTrial

Another study had to do with false memories. Adults were asked about 4 memories from their childhood. #WestsTrial

3 of the events took place, as told by researchers by the family. They also confirmed the adult had never been lost in the mall as a child. The interviewer then asked the adults about the time they were lost in the mall as a child, and 25% believed it happened. #WestsTrial

Cognitive dissonance is when a person is given two pieces of information that conflict and the person tries to fill in the blanks to make it make sense, Napolitano said. #WestsTrial

This cognitive dissonance led 25% of the adults to create memories of being lost in the mall as a child because the interviewer's question indicated it had happened, she said. #WestsTrial

It is now standard practice for police to record child interviews for examination. The earlier cases influenced how children are questioned with a focus on their capacity for suggestibility. #WestsTrial

"It is common that before a child gets to a forensic interviewer, somebody untrained has talked to them," Napolitano said. She said there are pitfalls to that. #WestsTrial

She said it's important to get to the professionally conducted forensic interview as soon as possible after the allegation is made. #WestsTrial

Napolitano said suggestive questioning -- when you ask a question of a child and give the answer to the question in the question -- was found to be a major issue. #WestsTrial

If you show interview bias early in the interview it's much more likely the child will agree with your mindset, Napolitano said. This can taint the child's answers, she said. #WestsTrial

Confirmation bias is when we look for info that confirms our belief. "When this happens, everything you see if filtered through that lens," said one of Napolitano's PowerPoint slides. #WestsTrial

As a hypothetical, Torres Stallings asked if an example of confirmation bias would be if law enforcement had decided a child was never in a house, and stuck to that belief despite later finding diapers and toys in the house. Napolitano said yes. #WestsTrial

This bias can be found in interviewers, Napolitano said. #WestsTrial

Napolitano said more than one plausible hypothesis must be considered to answer a forensic question. In this case, there are 2 prevailing hypotheses: someone abducted the children, or the Wests are responsible for the missing children. #WestsTrial

She said she would have expected to see those hypotheses examined in the forensic interviews in this case. #WestsTrial

Forensic interviews have common practices that are accepted elsewhere, nationally, Napolitano said. #WestsTrial

Napolitano has conducted at least 100 child forensic interviews and has reviewed hundreds that were conducted by others. #WestsTrial

She said it's not common to have more than one forensic interview on a single child. "I don't recall seeing that in my career," she said when asked if two or three would be extremely rare. #WestsTrial

Napolitano said she knows from these studies that a child's statement can be contaminated if questioned repeatedly. #WestsTrial

Children should be placed in a kid-friendly room and questioned by a person not in a uniform, not wearing a gun, is friendly and has qualities children will find non-threatening, Napolitano said. #WestsTrial

A child's cognitive abilities must be taken into consideration, she said. Get them to talk in an open-ended way about something, even what they had for breakfast, and get a sense of their cognitive and language abilities. #WestsTrial

Asked about recall, Napolitano said it's a certain type of memory when someone asks a question and you just recall the answer. She said it's considered by her profession to be the most accurate report. #WestsTrial

Recognition, in contrast, doesn't pull so much from memory, it's a response to a sensory cue to see if you recognize it. These responses are less accurate. #WestsTrial

Torres Stallings is going over interview phases with Napolitano. Rapport building, interview instructions, truth vs lie, narrative practice, substantive phase, narrative and detail gathering, alternative hypotheses and closure. #WestsTrial

A forensic interviewer should question an alternate hypothesis -- in a non-leading way -- to get to the truth, Napolitano said. #WestsTrial

Court is in recess for 15 minutes. #WestsTrial

Court is back in session with Napolitano still on the stand being questioned by Torres Stallings. #WestsTrial

Napolitano said questions with a child should be open-ended, not yes or no or multiple choice questions. #WestsTrial

Examples of improper questions would be leading, suggestive, coercive, repeated or social pressure questions. #WestsTrial

Napolitano, in regards to the eldest child's interview by Cal City police Officer Brian Hansen, found some things "highly atypical," particularly when Hansen asked if the boy knew killing someone or assisting in the killing of someone was wrong. #WestsTrial

Torres Stallings is playing the first interview. #WestsTrial

After watching a portion, Napolitano said the questions about hurting or killing someone would "prime" a child into thinking someone had been hurt or killed, and placed in his mind that something had happened to Orrin or Orson. #WestsTrial

Napolitano said an interviewer must be clear about what they're talking about when questioning children. Be specific, don't say "they" or "them," give the exact names. #WestsTrial

Going over the interview, Napolitano notes -- as Torres Stallings called it -- there are no "anchors in time." The officer doesn't give a specific date regarding his questions about when the boys were dropped off, for example. #WestsTrial

Regarding the interviews conducted by social worker Sunya Barton, Napolitano said she did a lot right in the questions she asked and followup questions. She said Barton has clearly been trained as a forensic interviewer. #WestsTrial

"I thought she did a lot right," Napolitano said. #WestsTrial

Reviewing a portion of one of Barton's interviews with the eldest child, Napolitano confirmed there were multiple repeated questions and peer pressure questions -- where Barton told the boy what his other brothers had said. #WestsTrial

Napolitano said Barton would not accept the boy's answers and used inappropriate techniques and questions. She described one segment as "extremely leading." #WestsTrial

Torres Stallings is playing another portion of the video. #WestsTrial

After watching this segment, Napolitano said there were some questions that should not be asked. She said "there was a great deal of social pressure on this child during this interview." #WestsTrial

She said Barton told the boy "your brothers said" and similar statements letting him know what his brothers had told her and possibly influencing him. #WestsTrial

There was also implementation of ideas and "dramatic, scary" words like "spanked till you bleed" in that segment, Napolitano said. She said that portion of the interview was poorly done by Barton. #WestsTrial

Another interview segment is being played. #WestsTrial

In this segment, Napolitano said, the eldest child is being asked a question over and over again to conform with what his brother has said, and she hears skepticism in Barton's voice. #WestsTrial

One question by Barton goes along the lines of "what will it take for you to speak up?" which Napolitano said falls under the label of a coercive and suggestive question. #WestsTrial

Regarding Barton's testimony yesterday, Napolitano said the documentation that indicated she believed the eldest child was lying indicates she had preconceived notions and bias before the boy was questioned on Dec. 28, 2020. #WestsTrial

The eldest child never says Orrin died until Barton asked something about Orrin's body, which in Napolitano's opinion led the eldest child to think about seeing him dead -- it could be a reconstruction of an event that never happened. #WestsTrial

In the eldest child's 2nd interview w Barton, there was discussion of smell. Barton brought it up. There had been no mention of it before. Barton bringing it up is a leading question, but what caught Napolitano's attention is she tells the boy he mentioned it before. #WestsTrial

Napolitano said it appeared to her the boy was guessing as to what Barton meant. #WestsTrial

Court is in recess until 1:30 p.m. #WestsTrial