Thread by @ActualAurochs

"Thread*

Arthur of Gwent, and why he probably isn't the first historical Arthur.

Much has been made of Athrwys ap Meurig, the grandson of the famous Tewdrig, who the victor of The Battle of Pont y Saeson. Tewdrig had abdicted in favor of his son Meurig, but came out of his monastic retirement to lead his warriors one last time.

Tewdrig died of wounds shortly after the battle. The dating of this battle, and the kings of Gwent/Glywysing are of uncertain datings, and many have worked to shift them into the period that they prefer to account for Tewdrig's grandson Athrwys to be 'THE ARTHUR'.

Far flung dates have been proposed placing Athrwys in the late 5th century, as well as other attempts making him extant throughout the 6th century. Some have combined their reckoning with a misconstrued dating of the Annales Cambriae, claiming that the dates are off by 35 years.

This comes from the suggestion that the Agitius mentioned in the 'Groans of the Britons' is actually Aegidius, the ruler of the Kingdom of Soissons, who has been misdated to the late 470s. Aegidius ruled earlier, actually ruled earlier than this proposed dating.

The letter in all likelihood was send to the famous Aetius, magister militum of Rome in the 440s. This misconstrued dating shifts events 35 years forward, and combined with some creative liberties for Athrwys' chronology shifts things just right where the 'scholars' want them.

The Annals themselves are not necessarily dated by this suggestion though, and are instead dated by an entry referencing Pope Leo I adjusting the date of Easter, leaving the Aegidius/ Aetius argument moot.

We are lucky enough that we have a fairly solid date on a descendant of Athrwys, Ffernfael ab Idwal, his great-grandson. Ffernfael died in 775 according to the annals, which in this case is unlikely to be wrong, as it is less than 50 years out from when they were first solidified

Making the assumption that Ffernfael lived to 100, and that he was sired by a line of geriatric fathers (extremely unlikely) you can get a date for Athrwys of 525. Close to the likely period the historical Arthur existed, but still almost two generations too late.

even with the 35 year shift forward this puts the Arthurian events of the annals into this prospective chronology, but it also shifts his birth out another 35 years, as then Ffernfael would have been born in 710, putting Athrwys' birth around 560, further desyncing things.

With the much more likely average generation of 27 years and accepting the date of the Annals for Ffernfael's death gives Athrwys a birth of 614, a much more likely date, but far out from when any reckoning of Badon and Camlann can be placed.

Athrwys still may have played his part in the later composite Arthur however. He became king of Ergyng around 645, a place long associated with Arthur, and situated close to Caerleon, a place heavily associated with Arthur.

Memories of Athrwys blended with others may be the explanation for the later southern affectations of the legendary Arthur.