Thread by @ncdave4life

@Kenneth72712993 @ScienceBlog3 @RichardLWeiss @Anvndarnamn5 @Michael_D_Crow @ammocrypta @Data79504085 @BenKoby1911 @emilio97493490 @InspirallPE @Mark_A_Lunn @ChrisBBacon3 @SpiruSensei @DenisDaly @WernerReinhard5 @controscience @Willard1951 @Fynnderella1 @SapientHetero @Veritatem2021 @C_R_O_M________ @balls95652097 @S_D_Mannix @Devonian1342 @AndreGrossza @Climatehope2 @S_Metzeler @priscian @3GHtweets @PvtMcAuslan @EdwardRiffle @AuroriaEn @JusticeTrudeau @judgementalbe1 @AristotleMrs @Coleski14 @wallytoms0 @LesserMegadeath @BillPrecht @DiseaseMatters @CoralReefFish @DavidJSuggett @CoralResearch @SteinhartBart @CoralMorph @ConnTrinity @reefgenomics 2/8. Note that Wong & Minnett didn't measure IR from CO2, they just mentioned it in passing. For their work they used IR from clouds, instead.

What's more, elsewhere in the paper they cited the IPCC's (too high) 3.7 W/m² (at TOA) per doubling figure.
sealevel.info/Wong_and_Minne…

@Kenneth72712993 @ScienceBlog3 @RichardLWeiss @Anvndarnamn5 @Michael_D_Crow @ammocrypta @Data79504085 @BenKoby1911 @emilio97493490 @InspirallPE @Mark_A_Lunn @ChrisBBacon3 @SpiruSensei @DenisDaly @WernerReinhard5 @controscience @Willard1951 @Fynnderella1 @SapientHetero @Veritatem2021 @C_R_O_M________ @balls95652097 @S_D_Mannix @Devonian1342 @AndreGrossza @Climatehope2 @S_Metzeler @priscian @3GHtweets @PvtMcAuslan @EdwardRiffle @AuroriaEn @JusticeTrudeau @judgementalbe1 @AristotleMrs @Coleski14 @wallytoms0 @LesserMegadeath @BillPrecht @DiseaseMatters @CoralReefFish @DavidJSuggett @CoralResearch @SteinhartBart @CoralMorph @ConnTrinity @reefgenomics 3/8. 2.4 W/m² at the surface per doubling of CO2 and 3.8 W/m² at the surface per tripling of CO2 are consistent with van Wijngaarden & Happer's calculation of 3.0 W/m² radiative forcing at the mesopause per doubling of CO2.

arxiv.org/pdf/2006.03098…
sealevel.info/vanWijingaarde…

@Kenneth72712993 @ScienceBlog3 @RichardLWeiss @Anvndarnamn5 @Michael_D_Crow @ammocrypta @Data79504085 @BenKoby1911 @emilio97493490 @InspirallPE @Mark_A_Lunn @ChrisBBacon3 @SpiruSensei @DenisDaly @WernerReinhard5 @controscience @Willard1951 @Fynnderella1 @SapientHetero @Veritatem2021 @C_R_O_M________ @balls95652097 @S_D_Mannix @Devonian1342 @AndreGrossza @Climatehope2 @S_Metzeler @priscian @3GHtweets @PvtMcAuslan @EdwardRiffle @AuroriaEn @JusticeTrudeau @judgementalbe1 @AristotleMrs @Coleski14 @wallytoms0 @LesserMegadeath @BillPrecht @DiseaseMatters @CoralReefFish @DavidJSuggett @CoralResearch @SteinhartBart @CoralMorph @ConnTrinity @reefgenomics 4/8. An odd caveat in your Wong & Minnett excerpt is, "Assuming still waters." That's a strange assumption, because still water is rare in the ocean.

https://twitter.com/ncdave4life/status/1694277566855512136

@Kenneth72712993 @ScienceBlog3 @RichardLWeiss @Anvndarnamn5 @Michael_D_Crow @ammocrypta @Data79504085 @BenKoby1911 @emilio97493490 @InspirallPE @Mark_A_Lunn @ChrisBBacon3 @SpiruSensei @DenisDaly @WernerReinhard5 @controscience @Willard1951 @Fynnderella1 @SapientHetero @Veritatem2021 @C_R_O_M________ @balls95652097 @S_D_Mannix @Devonian1342 @AndreGrossza @Climatehope2 @S_Metzeler @priscian @3GHtweets @PvtMcAuslan @EdwardRiffle @AuroriaEn @JusticeTrudeau @judgementalbe1 @AristotleMrs @Coleski14 @wallytoms0 @LesserMegadeath @BillPrecht @DiseaseMatters @CoralReefFish @DavidJSuggett @CoralResearch @SteinhartBart @CoralMorph @ConnTrinity @reefgenomics 5/8. Since the ocean is constantly sloshing & churning it doesn't matter at what depth photons are absorbed. A photon's heating effect is simply its energy: 1.9864459×10⁻²⁵ J·m / λ

Some people suppose that radiation absorbed at the TSL just evaporates the water. They're wrong.

@Kenneth72712993 @ScienceBlog3 @RichardLWeiss @Anvndarnamn5 @Michael_D_Crow @ammocrypta @Data79504085 @BenKoby1911 @emilio97493490 @InspirallPE @Mark_A_Lunn @ChrisBBacon3 @SpiruSensei @DenisDaly @WernerReinhard5 @controscience @Willard1951 @Fynnderella1 @SapientHetero @Veritatem2021 @C_R_O_M________ @balls95652097 @S_D_Mannix @Devonian1342 @AndreGrossza @Climatehope2 @S_Metzeler @priscian @3GHtweets @PvtMcAuslan @EdwardRiffle @AuroriaEn @JusticeTrudeau @judgementalbe1 @AristotleMrs @Coleski14 @wallytoms0 @LesserMegadeath @BillPrecht @DiseaseMatters @CoralReefFish @DavidJSuggett @CoralResearch @SteinhartBart @CoralMorph @ConnTrinity @reefgenomics 6/8. To evaporate a single molecule of liquid water at 25°C would require the amount of energy provided by absorption of nearly 5.8 billion 15 µm photons.

In fact, it takes absorbing 9.4 million 15 µm photons per H2O molecule merely to raise the temperature of water 1°C.

@Kenneth72712993 @ScienceBlog3 @RichardLWeiss @Anvndarnamn5 @Michael_D_Crow @ammocrypta @Data79504085 @BenKoby1911 @emilio97493490 @InspirallPE @Mark_A_Lunn @ChrisBBacon3 @SpiruSensei @DenisDaly @WernerReinhard5 @controscience @Willard1951 @Fynnderella1 @SapientHetero @Veritatem2021 @C_R_O_M________ @balls95652097 @S_D_Mannix @Devonian1342 @AndreGrossza @Climatehope2 @S_Metzeler @priscian @3GHtweets @PvtMcAuslan @EdwardRiffle @AuroriaEn @JusticeTrudeau @judgementalbe1 @AristotleMrs @Coleski14 @wallytoms0 @LesserMegadeath @BillPrecht @DiseaseMatters @CoralReefFish @DavidJSuggett @CoralResearch @SteinhartBart @CoralMorph @ConnTrinity @reefgenomics 7/8. Moreover, Wong & Minnett refute the notion that energy absorbed in the skin layer is immediately lost, preventing it from warming the water:

(LH = latent heat and SH = sensible heat) sealevel.info/Wong_and_Minne…

@Kenneth72712993 @ScienceBlog3 @RichardLWeiss @Anvndarnamn5 @Michael_D_Crow @ammocrypta @Data79504085 @BenKoby1911 @emilio97493490 @InspirallPE @Mark_A_Lunn @ChrisBBacon3 @SpiruSensei @DenisDaly @WernerReinhard5 @controscience @Willard1951 @Fynnderella1 @SapientHetero @Veritatem2021 @C_R_O_M________ @balls95652097 @S_D_Mannix @Devonian1342 @AndreGrossza @Climatehope2 @S_Metzeler @priscian @3GHtweets @PvtMcAuslan @EdwardRiffle @AuroriaEn @JusticeTrudeau @judgementalbe1 @AristotleMrs @Coleski14 @wallytoms0 @LesserMegadeath @BillPrecht @DiseaseMatters @CoralReefFish @DavidJSuggett @CoralResearch @SteinhartBart @CoralMorph @ConnTrinity @reefgenomics 8/8. Because the ocean is constantly churning, by the time a molecule of water in the TSL could have absorbed enough radiative energy to evaporate it, it's long gone from the TSL. So radiation absorbed in the TSL simply warms the water, just like visual wavelength light does.

@Kenneth72712993 @ScienceBlog3 @RichardLWeiss @Anvndarnamn5 @Michael_D_Crow @ammocrypta @Data79504085 @BenKoby1911 @emilio97493490 @InspirallPE @Mark_A_Lunn @ChrisBBacon3 @SpiruSensei @DenisDaly @WernerReinhard5 @controscience @Willard1951 @Fynnderella1 @SapientHetero @Veritatem2021 @C_R_O_M________ @balls95652097 @S_D_Mannix @Devonian1342 @AndreGrossza @Climatehope2 @S_Metzeler @priscian @3GHtweets @PvtMcAuslan @EdwardRiffle @AuroriaEn @JusticeTrudeau @judgementalbe1 @AristotleMrs @Coleski14 @wallytoms0 @LesserMegadeath @BillPrecht @DiseaseMatters @CoralReefFish @DavidJSuggett @CoralResearch @SteinhartBart @CoralMorph @ConnTrinity @reefgenomics Tweetstorm compilation:


@ThreadReaderApp @Rattibha @threaddotblue unrolltwitter-thread.com/t/169620519818…

@Veritatem2021 @ScienceBlog3 @Kenneth72712993 @InspirallPE @ammocrypta @Mark_A_Lunn @RichardLWeiss @ChrisBBacon3 @SpiruSensei @BenKoby1911 @Data79504085 @DenisDaly @WernerReinhard5 @controscience @Willard1951 @Michael_D_Crow @Fynnderella1 @SapientHetero @C_R_O_M________ @emilio97493490 @balls95652097 @S_D_Mannix @Devonian1342 @AndreGrossza @Climatehope2 @S_Metzeler @priscian @3GHtweets @Anvndarnamn5 @PvtMcAuslan @EdwardRiffle @AuroriaEn @JusticeTrudeau @judgementalbe1 @AristotleMrs @Coleski14 @wallytoms0 @LesserMegadeath @BillPrecht @DiseaseMatters @CoralReefFish @DavidJSuggett @CoralResearch @SteinhartBart @CoralMorph @ConnTrinity @reefgenomics V, you've made that accusation against her before:


And I've corrected you before:


Did you forget that?

https://twitter.com/Veritatem2021/status/1614395138456932353

https://twitter.com/ncdave4life/status/1614443988798275586

@Kenneth72712993 @ScienceBlog3 @RichardLWeiss @Anvndarnamn5 @Michael_D_Crow @ammocrypta @Data79504085 @BenKoby1911 @emilio97493490 @InspirallPE @Mark_A_Lunn @ChrisBBacon3 @SpiruSensei @DenisDaly @WernerReinhard5 @controscience @Willard1951 @Fynnderella1 @SapientHetero @Veritatem2021 @C_R_O_M________ @balls95652097 @S_D_Mannix @Devonian1342 @AndreGrossza @Climatehope2 @S_Metzeler @priscian @3GHtweets @PvtMcAuslan @EdwardRiffle @AuroriaEn @JusticeTrudeau @judgementalbe1 @AristotleMrs @Coleski14 @wallytoms0 @LesserMegadeath @BillPrecht @DiseaseMatters @CoralReefFish @DavidJSuggett @CoralResearch @SteinhartBart @CoralMorph @ConnTrinity @reefgenomics 2/3. A rapidly increased evaporation rate would mean rapidly accelerated latent heat loss, which doesn't happen. The reason it doesn't happen is that the skin layer doesn't heat up above the temperature of the water below, due to mixing.

https://twitter.com/ncdave4life/status/1696205198182564249

@Kenneth72712993 @ScienceBlog3 @RichardLWeiss @Anvndarnamn5 @Michael_D_Crow @ammocrypta @Data79504085 @BenKoby1911 @emilio97493490 @InspirallPE @Mark_A_Lunn @ChrisBBacon3 @SpiruSensei @DenisDaly @WernerReinhard5 @controscience @Willard1951 @Fynnderella1 @SapientHetero @Veritatem2021 @C_R_O_M________ @balls95652097 @S_D_Mannix @Devonian1342 @AndreGrossza @Climatehope2 @S_Metzeler @priscian @3GHtweets @PvtMcAuslan @EdwardRiffle @AuroriaEn @JusticeTrudeau @judgementalbe1 @AristotleMrs @Coleski14 @wallytoms0 @LesserMegadeath @BillPrecht @DiseaseMatters @CoralReefFish @DavidJSuggett @CoralResearch @SteinhartBart @CoralMorph @ConnTrinity @reefgenomics 3/3. Clark is very confused. In §5 he wrote, “Small changes in LWIR flux in the upper troposphere or stratosphere cannot influence surface temperatures of 288 K. Heat does not flow from a cooler to a warmer body.”

That's obviously nonsense, too.
drroyspencer.com/2010/07/yes-vi…

@ScienceBlog3 @Kenneth72712993 @RichardLWeiss @Anvndarnamn5 @Michael_D_Crow @ammocrypta @Data79504085 @BenKoby1911 @emilio97493490 @InspirallPE @Mark_A_Lunn @ChrisBBacon3 @SpiruSensei @DenisDaly @WernerReinhard5 @controscience @Willard1951 @Fynnderella1 @SapientHetero @Veritatem2021 @C_R_O_M________ @balls95652097 @S_D_Mannix @Devonian1342 @AndreGrossza @Climatehope2 @S_Metzeler @priscian @3GHtweets @PvtMcAuslan @EdwardRiffle @AuroriaEn @JusticeTrudeau @judgementalbe1 @AristotleMrs @Coleski14 @wallytoms0 @LesserMegadeath @BillPrecht @DiseaseMatters @CoralReefFish @DavidJSuggett @CoralResearch @SteinhartBart @CoralMorph @ConnTrinity @reefgenomics Note that there are two definitions of "heat," which can be disambiguated as "net heat flow" and "heat content."

Heat content = thermal energy
(this is the right definition, in this context)

Net heat flow = net transfer of thermal energy

https://twitter.com/ncdave4life/status/1651257606613135368

@NewNormality20 @Kenneth72712993 @ScienceBlog3 @RichardLWeiss @Anvndarnamn5 @Michael_D_Crow @ammocrypta @Data79504085 @BenKoby1911 @emilio97493490 @InspirallPE @Mark_A_Lunn @ChrisBBacon3 @SpiruSensei @DenisDaly @WernerReinhard5 @controscience @Willard1951 @Fynnderella1 @SapientHetero @Veritatem2021 @C_R_O_M________ @balls95652097 @S_D_Mannix @Devonian1342 @AndreGrossza @Climatehope2 @S_Metzeler @priscian @3GHtweets @PvtMcAuslan @EdwardRiffle @AuroriaEn @JusticeTrudeau @judgementalbe1 @AristotleMrs @Coleski14 @wallytoms0 @LesserMegadeath @BillPrecht @DiseaseMatters @CoralReefFish @DavidJSuggett @CoralResearch @SteinhartBart @CoralMorph @ConnTrinity @reefgenomics BTW, here's a nice tribute to Prof. Gray:
atmos.colostate.edu/people/in-memo…

@Kenneth72712993 @ScienceBlog3 @RichardLWeiss @Anvndarnamn5 @Michael_D_Crow @ammocrypta @Data79504085 @BenKoby1911 @emilio97493490 @InspirallPE @Mark_A_Lunn @ChrisBBacon3 @SpiruSensei @DenisDaly @WernerReinhard5 @controscience @Willard1951 @Fynnderella1 @SapientHetero @Veritatem2021 @C_R_O_M________ @balls95652097 @S_D_Mannix @Devonian1342 @AndreGrossza @Climatehope2 @S_Metzeler @priscian @3GHtweets @PvtMcAuslan @EdwardRiffle @AuroriaEn @JusticeTrudeau @judgementalbe1 @AristotleMrs @Coleski14 @wallytoms0 @LesserMegadeath @BillPrecht @DiseaseMatters @CoralReefFish @DavidJSuggett @CoralResearch @SteinhartBart @CoralMorph @ConnTrinity @reefgenomics 2/2. It is unclear what you mean by "override any CO2 effect." The plain language interpretation is that "override" means "cancels out," but since temperatures have risen, that obviously didn't happen.

https://twitter.com/ncdave4life/status/1696253531739541949

@Kenneth72712993 @ScienceBlog3 @RichardLWeiss @Anvndarnamn5 @Michael_D_Crow @ammocrypta @Data79504085 @BenKoby1911 @emilio97493490 @InspirallPE @Mark_A_Lunn @ChrisBBacon3 @SpiruSensei @DenisDaly @WernerReinhard5 @controscience @Willard1951 @Fynnderella1 @SapientHetero @Veritatem2021 @C_R_O_M________ @balls95652097 @S_D_Mannix @Devonian1342 @AndreGrossza @Climatehope2 @S_Metzeler @priscian @3GHtweets @PvtMcAuslan @EdwardRiffle @AuroriaEn @JusticeTrudeau @judgementalbe1 @AristotleMrs @Coleski14 @wallytoms0 @LesserMegadeath @BillPrecht @DiseaseMatters @CoralReefFish @DavidJSuggett @CoralResearch @SteinhartBart @CoralMorph @ConnTrinity @reefgenomics I see the problem, now. They didn't say it adds 0.5 W⋅m⁻², they said it adds 0.5 W⋅m⁻²⋅sr⁻¹. My guess is that you've got to multiply by 2π sr / half-sphere, or something like that.

@Kenneth72712993 @ScienceBlog3 @RichardLWeiss @Anvndarnamn5 @Michael_D_Crow @ammocrypta @Data79504085 @BenKoby1911 @emilio97493490 @InspirallPE @Mark_A_Lunn @ChrisBBacon3 @SpiruSensei @DenisDaly @WernerReinhard5 @controscience @Willard1951 @Fynnderella1 @SapientHetero @Veritatem2021 @C_R_O_M________ @balls95652097 @S_D_Mannix @Devonian1342 @AndreGrossza @Climatehope2 @S_Metzeler @priscian @3GHtweets @PvtMcAuslan @EdwardRiffle @AuroriaEn @JusticeTrudeau @judgementalbe1 @AristotleMrs @Coleski14 @wallytoms0 @LesserMegadeath @BillPrecht @DiseaseMatters @CoralReefFish @DavidJSuggett @CoralResearch @SteinhartBart @CoralMorph @ConnTrinity @reefgenomics KR wrote, "How modest? Quantify it."

Here you go:
sealevel.info/learnmore.html…

@Kenneth72712993 @ScienceBlog3 @RichardLWeiss @Anvndarnamn5 @Michael_D_Crow @ammocrypta @Data79504085 @BenKoby1911 @emilio97493490 @InspirallPE @Mark_A_Lunn @ChrisBBacon3 @SpiruSensei @DenisDaly @WernerReinhard5 @controscience @Willard1951 @Fynnderella1 @SapientHetero @Veritatem2021 @C_R_O_M________ @balls95652097 @S_D_Mannix @Devonian1342 @AndreGrossza @Climatehope2 @S_Metzeler @priscian @3GHtweets @PvtMcAuslan @EdwardRiffle @AuroriaEn @JusticeTrudeau @judgementalbe1 @AristotleMrs @Coleski14 @wallytoms0 @LesserMegadeath @BillPrecht @DiseaseMatters @CoralReefFish @DavidJSuggett @CoralResearch @SteinhartBart @CoralMorph @ConnTrinity @reefgenomics 2/4. I actually said of the 0.5 W/m² figure, "it's clearly wrong." Which is true.

I thought "maybe" it was W&M's typo. But it was your mistake, not theirs.

You told me they'd reported RF from tripling CO2 was 0.5 W/m². They hadn't, but I believed you.

@Kenneth72712993 @ScienceBlog3 @RichardLWeiss @Anvndarnamn5 @Michael_D_Crow @ammocrypta @Data79504085 @BenKoby1911 @emilio97493490 @InspirallPE @Mark_A_Lunn @ChrisBBacon3 @SpiruSensei @DenisDaly @WernerReinhard5 @controscience @Willard1951 @Fynnderella1 @SapientHetero @Veritatem2021 @C_R_O_M________ @balls95652097 @S_D_Mannix @Devonian1342 @AndreGrossza @Climatehope2 @S_Metzeler @priscian @3GHtweets @PvtMcAuslan @EdwardRiffle @AuroriaEn @JusticeTrudeau @judgementalbe1 @AristotleMrs @Coleski14 @wallytoms0 @LesserMegadeath @BillPrecht @DiseaseMatters @CoralReefFish @DavidJSuggett @CoralResearch @SteinhartBart @CoralMorph @ConnTrinity @reefgenomics 3/4. I should have carefully read the excerpt you provided, but I didn't. My bad.

But I did find the paper and noticed they'd cited the IPCC's figure of 3.7 W/m² per CO2 doubling. (It's unclear if they knew that's for TOA, rather than surface.)

Those 2 numbers are inconsistent.

@Kenneth72712993 @ScienceBlog3 @RichardLWeiss @Anvndarnamn5 @Michael_D_Crow @ammocrypta @Data79504085 @BenKoby1911 @emilio97493490 @InspirallPE @Mark_A_Lunn @ChrisBBacon3 @SpiruSensei @DenisDaly @WernerReinhard5 @controscience @Willard1951 @Fynnderella1 @SapientHetero @Veritatem2021 @C_R_O_M________ @balls95652097 @S_D_Mannix @Devonian1342 @AndreGrossza @Climatehope2 @S_Metzeler @priscian @3GHtweets @PvtMcAuslan @EdwardRiffle @AuroriaEn @JusticeTrudeau @judgementalbe1 @AristotleMrs @Coleski14 @wallytoms0 @LesserMegadeath @BillPrecht @DiseaseMatters @CoralReefFish @DavidJSuggett @CoralResearch @SteinhartBart @CoralMorph @ConnTrinity @reefgenomics 4/4. The inconsistency of those 2 numbers meant there obviously was an error. But it turned out that the error was yours (and mine, for not checking the citation you provided), not theirs.

@Kenneth72712993 @ScienceBlog3 @RichardLWeiss @Anvndarnamn5 @Michael_D_Crow @ammocrypta @Data79504085 @BenKoby1911 @emilio97493490 @InspirallPE @Mark_A_Lunn @ChrisBBacon3 @SpiruSensei @DenisDaly @WernerReinhard5 @controscience @Willard1951 @Fynnderella1 @SapientHetero @Veritatem2021 @C_R_O_M________ @balls95652097 @S_D_Mannix @Devonian1342 @AndreGrossza @Climatehope2 @S_Metzeler @priscian @3GHtweets @PvtMcAuslan @EdwardRiffle @AuroriaEn @JusticeTrudeau @judgementalbe1 @AristotleMrs @Coleski14 @wallytoms0 @LesserMegadeath @BillPrecht @DiseaseMatters @CoralReefFish @DavidJSuggett @CoralResearch @SteinhartBart @CoralMorph @ConnTrinity @reefgenomics KR wrote, "Measuring TOA Earth's Energy Imbalance…"

The Earth's radiative energy imbalance is not measurable with existing technology. However, it can be deduced, approximately, from other things. I built an online spreadsheet to make that easier:
sealevel.info/radiative_imba…

@Kenneth72712993 @ScienceBlog3 @RichardLWeiss @Anvndarnamn5 @Michael_D_Crow @ammocrypta @Data79504085 @BenKoby1911 @emilio97493490 @InspirallPE @Mark_A_Lunn @ChrisBBacon3 @SpiruSensei @DenisDaly @WernerReinhard5 @controscience @Willard1951 @Fynnderella1 @SapientHetero @Veritatem2021 @C_R_O_M________ @balls95652097 @S_D_Mannix @Devonian1342 @AndreGrossza @Climatehope2 @S_Metzeler @priscian @3GHtweets @PvtMcAuslan @EdwardRiffle @AuroriaEn @JusticeTrudeau @judgementalbe1 @AristotleMrs @Coleski14 @wallytoms0 @LesserMegadeath @BillPrecht @DiseaseMatters @CoralReefFish @DavidJSuggett @CoralResearch @SteinhartBart @CoralMorph @ConnTrinity @reefgenomics 2/6. KE wrote, "…W&M say cloud forcing is >50 larger than CO2 forcing…"

No, they don't. You've confused TOTAL radiation from clouds with the small incremental CHANGE in radiation from CO2 due to the anthropogenic increase from ≈280 to ≈420 ppmv.

@Kenneth72712993 @ScienceBlog3 @RichardLWeiss @Anvndarnamn5 @Michael_D_Crow @ammocrypta @Data79504085 @BenKoby1911 @emilio97493490 @InspirallPE @Mark_A_Lunn @ChrisBBacon3 @SpiruSensei @DenisDaly @WernerReinhard5 @controscience @Willard1951 @Fynnderella1 @SapientHetero @Veritatem2021 @C_R_O_M________ @balls95652097 @S_D_Mannix @Devonian1342 @AndreGrossza @Climatehope2 @S_Metzeler @priscian @3GHtweets @PvtMcAuslan @EdwardRiffle @AuroriaEn @JusticeTrudeau @judgementalbe1 @AristotleMrs @Coleski14 @wallytoms0 @LesserMegadeath @BillPrecht @DiseaseMatters @CoralReefFish @DavidJSuggett @CoralResearch @SteinhartBart @CoralMorph @ConnTrinity @reefgenomics 3/6. Downwelling LW IR from CO2 & clouds are typically of similar magnitude when it's cloudy, but IR from clouds is intermittent, so IR from CO2 is greater in total effect.

Downwelling IR from clouds is greatest when the clouds are low and warm.

@Kenneth72712993 @ScienceBlog3 @RichardLWeiss @Anvndarnamn5 @Michael_D_Crow @ammocrypta @Data79504085 @BenKoby1911 @emilio97493490 @InspirallPE @Mark_A_Lunn @ChrisBBacon3 @SpiruSensei @DenisDaly @WernerReinhard5 @controscience @Willard1951 @Fynnderella1 @SapientHetero @Veritatem2021 @C_R_O_M________ @balls95652097 @S_D_Mannix @Devonian1342 @AndreGrossza @Climatehope2 @S_Metzeler @priscian @3GHtweets @PvtMcAuslan @EdwardRiffle @AuroriaEn @JusticeTrudeau @judgementalbe1 @AristotleMrs @Coleski14 @wallytoms0 @LesserMegadeath @BillPrecht @DiseaseMatters @CoralReefFish @DavidJSuggett @CoralResearch @SteinhartBart @CoralMorph @ConnTrinity @reefgenomics 4/6. Here's a plot of downwelling radiation (in blue) measured at Penn State on a day which was cloudy from about 8:30 PM to 5:00 AM, and then clear. You can see that cloud cover added a variable amount of downwelling IR, up to a maximum of about 75 W/m².
sealevel.info/psu_solar_down…

@Kenneth72712993 @ScienceBlog3 @RichardLWeiss @Anvndarnamn5 @Michael_D_Crow @ammocrypta @Data79504085 @BenKoby1911 @emilio97493490 @InspirallPE @Mark_A_Lunn @ChrisBBacon3 @SpiruSensei @DenisDaly @WernerReinhard5 @controscience @Willard1951 @Fynnderella1 @SapientHetero @Veritatem2021 @C_R_O_M________ @balls95652097 @S_D_Mannix @Devonian1342 @AndreGrossza @Climatehope2 @S_Metzeler @priscian @3GHtweets @PvtMcAuslan @EdwardRiffle @AuroriaEn @JusticeTrudeau @judgementalbe1 @AristotleMrs @Coleski14 @wallytoms0 @LesserMegadeath @BillPrecht @DiseaseMatters @CoralReefFish @DavidJSuggett @CoralResearch @SteinhartBart @CoralMorph @ConnTrinity @reefgenomics 5/6. For comparison, total downwelling IR from all sources is generally estimated to average about 340 W/m² at the surface, averaged over 24 hours, over the entire Earth.

@Kenneth72712993 @ScienceBlog3 @RichardLWeiss @Anvndarnamn5 @Michael_D_Crow @ammocrypta @Data79504085 @BenKoby1911 @emilio97493490 @InspirallPE @Mark_A_Lunn @ChrisBBacon3 @SpiruSensei @DenisDaly @WernerReinhard5 @controscience @Willard1951 @Fynnderella1 @SapientHetero @Veritatem2021 @C_R_O_M________ @balls95652097 @S_D_Mannix @Devonian1342 @AndreGrossza @Climatehope2 @S_Metzeler @priscian @3GHtweets @PvtMcAuslan @EdwardRiffle @AuroriaEn @JusticeTrudeau @judgementalbe1 @AristotleMrs @Coleski14 @wallytoms0 @LesserMegadeath @BillPrecht @DiseaseMatters @CoralReefFish @DavidJSuggett @CoralResearch @SteinhartBart @CoralMorph @ConnTrinity @reefgenomics 6/6. KR wrote, "and the two effects are simultaneously mixed"

I don't know what "simultaneously mixed" means. When there're no clouds the Earth's surface receives LW IR only from GHGs. When it's cloudy the Earth's surface receives LW IR both from GHGs and clouds; the fluxes add.

@Mark_A_Lunn @Kenneth72712993 @ScienceBlog3 @RichardLWeiss @Anvndarnamn5 @Michael_D_Crow @ammocrypta @Data79504085 @BenKoby1911 @emilio97493490 @InspirallPE @ChrisBBacon3 @SpiruSensei @DenisDaly @WernerReinhard5 @controscience @Willard1951 @Fynnderella1 @SapientHetero @Veritatem2021 @C_R_O_M________ @balls95652097 @S_D_Mannix @Devonian1342 @AndreGrossza @Climatehope2 @S_Metzeler @priscian @3GHtweets @PvtMcAuslan @EdwardRiffle @AuroriaEn @JusticeTrudeau @judgementalbe1 @AristotleMrs @Coleski14 @wallytoms0 @LesserMegadeath @BillPrecht @DiseaseMatters @CoralReefFish @DavidJSuggett @CoralResearch @SteinhartBart @CoralMorph @ConnTrinity @reefgenomics 2/5. If you look at drawings of the design of the new Panamax locks, you'll see three levels of large, shallow storage ponds beside them. That's to conserve water.

They installed them because they knew that the water supply was going to be an issue, due to the increased demand.

@Mark_A_Lunn @Kenneth72712993 @ScienceBlog3 @RichardLWeiss @Anvndarnamn5 @Michael_D_Crow @ammocrypta @Data79504085 @BenKoby1911 @emilio97493490 @InspirallPE @ChrisBBacon3 @SpiruSensei @DenisDaly @WernerReinhard5 @controscience @Willard1951 @Fynnderella1 @SapientHetero @Veritatem2021 @C_R_O_M________ @balls95652097 @S_D_Mannix @Devonian1342 @AndreGrossza @Climatehope2 @S_Metzeler @priscian @3GHtweets @PvtMcAuslan @EdwardRiffle @AuroriaEn @JusticeTrudeau @judgementalbe1 @AristotleMrs @Coleski14 @wallytoms0 @LesserMegadeath @BillPrecht @DiseaseMatters @CoralReefFish @DavidJSuggett @CoralResearch @SteinhartBart @CoralMorph @ConnTrinity @reefgenomics 3/5. I suspect that it works like this:

When you need to lower the water in a lock, instead of just dumping it downstream, you divert the top 1/4 into pond #1 (the highest pond), the next 1/4 into pond #2, and the next 1/4 into pond #3. Only the last 1/4 is lost downstream.

@Mark_A_Lunn @Kenneth72712993 @ScienceBlog3 @RichardLWeiss @Anvndarnamn5 @Michael_D_Crow @ammocrypta @Data79504085 @BenKoby1911 @emilio97493490 @InspirallPE @ChrisBBacon3 @SpiruSensei @DenisDaly @WernerReinhard5 @controscience @Willard1951 @Fynnderella1 @SapientHetero @Veritatem2021 @C_R_O_M________ @balls95652097 @S_D_Mannix @Devonian1342 @AndreGrossza @Climatehope2 @S_Metzeler @priscian @3GHtweets @PvtMcAuslan @EdwardRiffle @AuroriaEn @JusticeTrudeau @judgementalbe1 @AristotleMrs @Coleski14 @wallytoms0 @LesserMegadeath @BillPrecht @DiseaseMatters @CoralReefFish @DavidJSuggett @CoralResearch @SteinhartBart @CoralMorph @ConnTrinity @reefgenomics 4/5. Then, when you need to raise the water level again in the lock, you add the first 1/4 from pond #3, the next 1/4 from pond #2, the third 1/4 from pond #1, and the final 1/4 from the lake.

It's still all gravity-fed (no pumps)! But now you're using much less water per cycle.

@Mark_A_Lunn @Kenneth72712993 @ScienceBlog3 @RichardLWeiss @Anvndarnamn5 @Michael_D_Crow @ammocrypta @Data79504085 @BenKoby1911 @emilio97493490 @InspirallPE @ChrisBBacon3 @SpiruSensei @DenisDaly @WernerReinhard5 @controscience @Willard1951 @Fynnderella1 @SapientHetero @Veritatem2021 @C_R_O_M________ @balls95652097 @S_D_Mannix @Devonian1342 @AndreGrossza @Climatehope2 @S_Metzeler @priscian @3GHtweets @PvtMcAuslan @EdwardRiffle @AuroriaEn @JusticeTrudeau @judgementalbe1 @AristotleMrs @Coleski14 @wallytoms0 @LesserMegadeath @BillPrecht @DiseaseMatters @CoralReefFish @DavidJSuggett @CoralResearch @SteinhartBart @CoralMorph @ConnTrinity @reefgenomics 5/5. From the drawings I've seen, only the new Panamax locks have that water-saving system. It seems like they ought to upgrade the older, smaller locks to use the same system. (Or maybe they just don't use the old, less water-efficient locks, when the water supply is tight.)

@Mark_A_Lunn @Kenneth72712993 @ScienceBlog3 @RichardLWeiss @Anvndarnamn5 @Michael_D_Crow @ammocrypta @Data79504085 @BenKoby1911 @emilio97493490 @InspirallPE @ChrisBBacon3 @SpiruSensei @DenisDaly @WernerReinhard5 @controscience @Willard1951 @Fynnderella1 @SapientHetero @Veritatem2021 @C_R_O_M________ @balls95652097 @S_D_Mannix @Devonian1342 @AndreGrossza @Climatehope2 @S_Metzeler @priscian @3GHtweets @PvtMcAuslan @EdwardRiffle @AuroriaEn @JusticeTrudeau @judgementalbe1 @AristotleMrs @Coleski14 @wallytoms0 @LesserMegadeath @BillPrecht @DiseaseMatters @CoralReefFish @DavidJSuggett @CoralResearch @SteinhartBart @CoralMorph @ConnTrinity @reefgenomics P.S. -- Here's another (better!) diagram, showing the water-saving ponds. It's from this June 19, 2016 Miami Herald article:

miamiherald.com/news/nation-wo…
miamiherald.com/latest-news/sk…

@Kenneth72712993 @ScienceBlog3 @RichardLWeiss @Anvndarnamn5 @Michael_D_Crow @ammocrypta @Data79504085 @BenKoby1911 @emilio97493490 @InspirallPE @Mark_A_Lunn @ChrisBBacon3 @SpiruSensei @DenisDaly @WernerReinhard5 @controscience @Willard1951 @Fynnderella1 @SapientHetero @Veritatem2021 @C_R_O_M________ @balls95652097 @S_D_Mannix @Devonian1342 @AndreGrossza @Climatehope2 @S_Metzeler @priscian @3GHtweets @PvtMcAuslan @EdwardRiffle @AuroriaEn @JusticeTrudeau @judgementalbe1 @AristotleMrs @Coleski14 @wallytoms0 @LesserMegadeath @BillPrecht @DiseaseMatters @CoralReefFish @DavidJSuggett @CoralResearch @SteinhartBart @CoralMorph @ConnTrinity @reefgenomics 2/3.
KR wrote, "The greenhouse effect of clouds may be larger than that resulting from a hundredfold increase in the CO2 concentration"

That's true, but irrelevant. We're talking about the TOTAL effect of ALL CO2, not just the incremental effect of a CHANGE in CO2 concentration.

@Kenneth72712993 @ScienceBlog3 @RichardLWeiss @Anvndarnamn5 @Michael_D_Crow @ammocrypta @Data79504085 @BenKoby1911 @emilio97493490 @InspirallPE @Mark_A_Lunn @ChrisBBacon3 @SpiruSensei @DenisDaly @WernerReinhard5 @controscience @Willard1951 @Fynnderella1 @SapientHetero @Veritatem2021 @C_R_O_M________ @balls95652097 @S_D_Mannix @Devonian1342 @AndreGrossza @Climatehope2 @S_Metzeler @priscian @3GHtweets @PvtMcAuslan @EdwardRiffle @AuroriaEn @JusticeTrudeau @judgementalbe1 @AristotleMrs @Coleski14 @wallytoms0 @LesserMegadeath @BillPrecht @DiseaseMatters @CoralReefFish @DavidJSuggett @CoralResearch @SteinhartBart @CoralMorph @ConnTrinity @reefgenomics 3/3.
100× CO2 (42,000 ppmv = 4.2%) would yield about 20 W/m² of additional radiative forcing.


But that's in addition to the current 39 W/m².

If the Cess & Udelhofen paper you cited is right, clouds contribute ≈30 W/m² at ground level (so ≈38 at TOA).google.com/search?q=log2%…

@Kenneth72712993 @ScienceBlog3 @RichardLWeiss @Anvndarnamn5 @Michael_D_Crow @ammocrypta @Data79504085 @BenKoby1911 @emilio97493490 @InspirallPE @Mark_A_Lunn @ChrisBBacon3 @SpiruSensei @DenisDaly @WernerReinhard5 @controscience @Willard1951 @Fynnderella1 @SapientHetero @Veritatem2021 @C_R_O_M________ @balls95652097 @S_D_Mannix @Devonian1342 @AndreGrossza @Climatehope2 @S_Metzeler @priscian @3GHtweets @PvtMcAuslan @EdwardRiffle @AuroriaEn @JusticeTrudeau @judgementalbe1 @AristotleMrs @Coleski14 @wallytoms0 @LesserMegadeath @BillPrecht @DiseaseMatters @CoralReefFish @DavidJSuggett @CoralResearch @SteinhartBart @CoralMorph @ConnTrinity @reefgenomics 2/3. The reason the next 400 ppmv has so little effect is that at 400 ppmv CO2's 15µm absorption band is almost completely saturated, except at the fringes.

You can learn more about it here:
sealevel.info/learnmore.html…

@Kenneth72712993 @ScienceBlog3 @RichardLWeiss @Anvndarnamn5 @Michael_D_Crow @ammocrypta @Data79504085 @BenKoby1911 @emilio97493490 @InspirallPE @Mark_A_Lunn @ChrisBBacon3 @SpiruSensei @DenisDaly @WernerReinhard5 @controscience @Willard1951 @Fynnderella1 @SapientHetero @Veritatem2021 @C_R_O_M________ @balls95652097 @S_D_Mannix @Devonian1342 @AndreGrossza @Climatehope2 @S_Metzeler @priscian @3GHtweets @PvtMcAuslan @EdwardRiffle @AuroriaEn @JusticeTrudeau @judgementalbe1 @AristotleMrs @Coleski14 @wallytoms0 @LesserMegadeath @BillPrecht @DiseaseMatters @CoralReefFish @DavidJSuggett @CoralResearch @SteinhartBart @CoralMorph @ConnTrinity @reefgenomics 3/3. Plus, for most of the 15µm band, the effective emission height is roughly the tropopause, so raising the emission height doesn't result in colder temperatures at the emission height. Only at the fringes, where CO2 absorbs only weakly, is that untrue.

@JeffNor50595241 @Data79504085 @jpgcrowley @wille99 @ClimateRetorts @B_Bolshevik100 @Mark_A_Lunn @ZombiePiano @RobAnderson17 @Anvndarnamn5 @S_D_Mannix @ammocrypta @ItsTheAtmospher @Dcchristense @benmooreau @KCTaz @Climatehope2 @EthonRaptor @TWTThisIsNow @TheDisproof @Jaisans @atherton_chris @WillWat6 @3GHtweets @DGinCheshire @BointonGiles @AuroriaTwittori @RushhourP @MartinJBern @Willard1951 @AristotleMrs @gstrandberg1 @Jakegsm @EricWil06256732 @DTGvmd @PaulDFarrar @Hji45519156 @Valja46Zhark5 @paulp1232 @ShroedingerBird @J0aquIm_B4rb0s4 @Sky48115666 @0Sundance @BradPKeyes @DoesThisW0rk @FD2you @JustThi30117912 @ChrisBBacon3 @rosmadiwahab Data79540 wrote, "The big agricultural concern is heat stress."

Nonsense. The most important things which damage crops are drought and early frost. Elevated CO2 helps mitigate both of those threats, via slightly lengthened growing seasons & improved WUE.

https://twitter.com/ncdave4life/status/1670086316988542976

2/4. Here's what the Institute of Physics said about it:


Excerpt:
"The CRU e-mails as published on the internet provide prima facie evidence of determined and coordinated refusals to comply with honourable scientific traditions and freedom of information law. The principle that scientists should be willing to expose their ideas and results to independent testing and replication by others, which requires the open exchange of data, procedures and materials, is vital. The lack of compliance has been confirmed by the findings of the Information Commissioner. This extends well beyond the CRU itself most of the e-mails were exchanged with researchers in a number of other international institutions who are also involved in the formulation of the IPCC's conclusions on climate change."publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200910/cm…

@OliverCramon @Willard1951 @priscian @Anvndarnamn5 @Michael_D_Crow @ScienceBlog3 @DawnTJ90 @Beto_In_Austin @aaronshem @Kenneth72712993 @InspirallPE @ammocrypta @Mark_A_Lunn @RichardLWeiss @ChrisBBacon3 @SpiruSensei @BenKoby1911 @Data79504085 @DenisDaly @WernerReinhard5 @controscience @Fynnderella1 @SapientHetero @Veritatem2021 @C_R_O_M________ @emilio97493490 @balls95652097 @S_D_Mannix @Devonian1342 @AndreGrossza @Climatehope2 @S_Metzeler @3GHtweets @PvtMcAuslan @EdwardRiffle @AuroriaEn @JusticeTrudeau @judgementalbe1 @AristotleMrs @Coleski14 @wallytoms0 @LesserMegadeath @BillPrecht @DiseaseMatters @CoralReefFish @DavidJSuggett @CoralResearch @SteinhartBart @CoralMorph 3/4. I have a web page about it, with links to many additional resources:
sealevel.info/climategate.ht…

@OliverCramon @Willard1951 @priscian @Anvndarnamn5 @Michael_D_Crow @ScienceBlog3 @DawnTJ90 @Beto_In_Austin @aaronshem @Kenneth72712993 @InspirallPE @ammocrypta @Mark_A_Lunn @RichardLWeiss @ChrisBBacon3 @SpiruSensei @BenKoby1911 @Data79504085 @DenisDaly @WernerReinhard5 @controscience @Fynnderella1 @SapientHetero @Veritatem2021 @C_R_O_M________ @emilio97493490 @balls95652097 @S_D_Mannix @Devonian1342 @AndreGrossza @Climatehope2 @S_Metzeler @3GHtweets @PvtMcAuslan @EdwardRiffle @AuroriaEn @JusticeTrudeau @judgementalbe1 @AristotleMrs @Coleski14 @wallytoms0 @LesserMegadeath @BillPrecht @DiseaseMatters @CoralReefFish @DavidJSuggett @CoralResearch @SteinhartBart @CoralMorph 4/4. I also have the full collection of Climategate emails and other files, here:
sealevel.info/FOIA/

@OliverCramon @emilio97493490 @Anvndarnamn5 @priscian @Willard1951 @Michael_D_Crow @ScienceBlog3 @DawnTJ90 @Beto_In_Austin @aaronshem @Kenneth72712993 @InspirallPE @ammocrypta @Mark_A_Lunn @RichardLWeiss @ChrisBBacon3 @SpiruSensei @BenKoby1911 @Data79504085 @DenisDaly @WernerReinhard5 @controscience @Fynnderella1 @SapientHetero @Veritatem2021 @C_R_O_M________ @balls95652097 @S_D_Mannix @Devonian1342 @AndreGrossza @Climatehope2 @S_Metzeler @3GHtweets @PvtMcAuslan @EdwardRiffle @AuroriaEn @JusticeTrudeau @judgementalbe1 @AristotleMrs @Coleski14 @wallytoms0 @LesserMegadeath @BillPrecht @DiseaseMatters @CoralReefFish @DavidJSuggett @CoralResearch @SteinhartBart @CoralMorph 2/4. Human CO2 emissions are entirely responsible for rising CO2 levels, and elevated CO2 is highly beneficial for plants, both for agriculture and natural ecosystems.


This is a NASA video about it:
sealevel.info/greening_earth…

3/4. Some aspects of climate change have nothing to do with human activity. The repeated glaciation/deglaciation cycles over the last million years were REAL climate change, but they were not caused by anything that humans did. In fact, during some of them there were no humans.

4/4. The evidence is compelling that manmade climate change is modest and benign, and CO2 emissions are highly beneficial, rather than harmful.

Does that surprise you? If so, you're not getting balanced information. But I'm here to help:



That webpage has:
● accurate introductory climatology info
● in-depth science from BOTH skeptics & alarmists
● links to balanced debates between experts on BOTH sides
● info about climate impacts
● links to the best blogs on BOTH sidessealevel.info/learnmore.html

@OliverCramon @Willard1951 @priscian @Anvndarnamn5 @Michael_D_Crow @ScienceBlog3 @DawnTJ90 @Beto_In_Austin @aaronshem @Kenneth72712993 @InspirallPE @ammocrypta @Mark_A_Lunn @RichardLWeiss @ChrisBBacon3 @SpiruSensei @BenKoby1911 @Data79504085 @DenisDaly @WernerReinhard5 @controscience @Fynnderella1 @SapientHetero @Veritatem2021 @C_R_O_M________ @emilio97493490 @balls95652097 @S_D_Mannix @Devonian1342 @AndreGrossza @Climatehope2 @S_Metzeler @3GHtweets @PvtMcAuslan @EdwardRiffle @AuroriaEn @JusticeTrudeau @judgementalbe1 @AristotleMrs @Coleski14 @wallytoms0 @LesserMegadeath @BillPrecht @DiseaseMatters @CoralReefFish @DavidJSuggett @CoralResearch @ThreadReaderApp @Rattibha @threaddotblue unroll