Some are disappointed that Shogun doesn’t feature Blackthorne, Mariko, and the Jesuit characters speaking Portuguese.

Using English as a stand-in for other languages is nothing new for films and shows, but language is actually one of Shogun’s more fascinating aspects.

Thread. Image
As is well-known by now, Shogun protagonist John Blackthorne is based William Adams.

Adams was an English sailor who arrived in Japan in 1600 via the Dutch trading ship de Liefde.

He was the first Englishman in Japan and was given samurai status by Tokugawa Ieyasu. Image
William Adams’ adventures before arriving in Japan are already fascinating enough. The ship he boarded was part of a fleet of five.

Adams’ ship was the only one to make it to Japan after two years at sea and he was one of the few survivors out of hundreds of sailors. Image
We can assume that Adams knew how to speak Dutch because of his crewmen, but his interactions with the Jesuits upon arriving in Japan suggest that he also spoke Portuguese.

Adams had very few opportunities to speak English in Japan because no one spoke it there at the time. Image
The presence of Dutch and Portuguese traders in Japan since the 1500s greatly influenced the Japanese language with new loanwords.

Much of what we know about Japanese around this time comes from the extensive dictionaries and grammars the Jesuits wrote. They’re vital resources. Image
The Shogun character Martin Alvito is based on João Rodrigues Tçuzu, one of the most esteemed Jesuit scholars and linguists working in Asia at the time.

He learned Japanese to a high degree of fluency and worked as an interpreter, as Shogun depicts. Image
James Clavell was well-aware of how important language and linguistic differences were in Japan during this evolving period of foreign exchange.

He knew enough Japanese to understand its basic grammatical features, which added to the world-building of his Shogun novel. Image
When Shogun was first adapted into the acclaimed 1980 television miniseries, it was famously decided that none of the Japanese would be subtitled.

The idea was that we as the Western audience are in Blackthorne’s shoes. If he doesn’t understand what’s happening, neither do we. Image
NBC wanted Sean Connery as Blackthorne, but he turned it down, so Richard Chamberlain was cast.

Chamberlain acted in his native American accent instead of a British one since it was believed that the unsubtitled Japanese was already going to be a hurdle for U.S. viewers. Image
1980 Shogun uses English as a stand-in for the Western characters speaking Portuguese.

Waterloo, The Last Emperor, The Hunt for Red October, and Schindler’s List are other examples of English being used as the language for audience benefit instead of Russian, French, etc.


Image
Image
Image
Image
With Schindler’s List, Steven Spielberg chose English as the film’s primary language instead of German and Polish.

He did this because he believed the audience would resonate more with what was happening on screen without the “safety” of subtitles. Image
Shogun 2024, on the other hand, practically revels in subtitles.

It wants you to see the Japanese perspective and while a full English dub exists, I can’t imagine watching the show that way.

These are some of the finest Japanese actors alive today. Image
Different projects call for different approaches.

But while some (particularly American) viewers will complain, most of the world has long accepted subtitles.

Other Asia-focused shows like Pachinko and The Sympathizer have also embraced them as an important storytelling device.
Image
Image
Practically, it makes sense why both the 1980 and 2024 versions of Shogun use English for the non-Japanese languages.

Both are American productions and finding actors who could act in English, Portuguese, Dutch, and Japanese was realistically never going to happen. Image
If you want to read some more of my thoughts about Shogun, check out this other thread of impressions I did.

I’ve long researched William Adams and James Clavell, so this is a subject I’m particularly invested in.

There will be an article on my Substack as well.

• • •

Missing some Tweet in this thread? You can try to force a refresh
 

Keep Current with Oliver Jia (オリバー・ジア)

Oliver Jia (オリバー・ジア) Profile picture

Stay in touch and get notified when new unrolls are available from this author!

Read all threads

This Thread may be Removed Anytime!

PDF

Twitter may remove this content at anytime! Save it as PDF for later use!

Try unrolling a thread yourself!

how to unroll video
  1. Follow @ThreadReaderApp to mention us!

  2. From a Twitter thread mention us with a keyword "unroll"
@threadreaderapp unroll

Practice here first or read more on our help page!

More from @OliverJia1014

May 6
Israel annexing Gaza is dicey for many reasons, but there are few options left on the table.

The Israelis withdrew in 2005 and gave the Palestinians 18 years to build a state. Hamas instead turned it into a totalitarian Islamic dictatorship. All of this is on them.
It's too early to tell what will happen in the long run, but Hamas cannot be allowed to rebuild and commit October 7 again.

The best we can hope for is that the annexation is temporary, but Palestinians in Gaza will obviously resist Israeli rule. It's going to be ugly.
People keep talking about a "two-state solution," but since 2005 it's been effectively three states. Hamas and the PA utterly despise each other, which is something I rarely hear anyone in the West talking about.

It's a complete clusterfuck. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise.
Read 5 tweets
Feb 25
Really bonkers to see this playing out in the West because in my experience the majority of Japanese women in my age group (late 20s) could not give less of a toss about politics.

Dating sounds like a complete disaster for young people now and I'm not sure what the solution is.
There are obviously other factors, but it does seem that smartphones/social media being the primary method of communication between people has had a direct connection with how bad dating has gotten.

It's caused everything from worsened social skills to extreme radicalization.
Things sounded a lot simpler in our parents/grandparents' day when you just socialized IRL, met people at social gatherings, and took things from there.

The basic things human beings have wanted from an ideal partner haven't changed. Our communication has though.
Read 4 tweets
Feb 25
Good start if true but the general public no longer cares about Star Wars even if something like Andor occasionally comes along.

Lucasfilm under KK dropped the ball where it should’ve counted with the sequel trilogy. Star Wars went from cultural phenomenon to niche interest.
In general, Disney is going to have to make some huge changes in the next decade.

I think Star Wars and Marvel will always be around in some capacity, but the oversaturation of mediocre to awful content has probably done irreparable damage.
Again, something occasionally good like Andor or Deadpool and Wolverine does come along.

But the pessimistic part of me has pretty much come to terms with the reality that we no longer live in conditions that produced the golden age of franchise filmmaking.
Read 4 tweets
Feb 24
Assuming this is actually true and not Trump doing more BSing, this only feeds into what me and others have said that Ukraine and Russia will probably end up like the Koreas separated by a kind of DMZ.

Any "peace deal" now will just turn the war into a frozen conflict.
Remember that even though at this moment North and South Korea are not actively fighting, the North's stated goal is still to take over the entire Korean Peninsula. Same with China and Taiwan.

The least worst scenario now is a similar situation with Ukraine and Russia.
As I've said before, I think Trump's words at the moment are incredibly stupid and unhelpful, but what will ultimately matter are the actual terms of the eventual ceasefire agreement.

It's delusional to think Russia won't continue to make noise after it. They always will.
Read 4 tweets
Feb 23
For as cringe and narcissistic as zoomers can be, millennials shouldn't be given a free pass either.

Reddit/Tumblr making online discourse unbearable, the MCU-ification of pop culture, cynicism being the default mentality, etc.

All of that was started by millennials.
Everything that makes the internet intolerable today can pretty much be traced back to millennials.

Obviously most of the poor decisions can only be viewed in hindsight, but zoomers just used the resources that already existed and created their own subcultures from them.
Let's also not forget that the vast majority of films and television shows today are still being made by millennials for other millennials.

It's like the industry looked at Joss Whedon and collectively decided that there was no other way to write dialogue.
Read 4 tweets
Feb 21
And another franchise bites the dust. Barbara Broccoli wasn't perfect, but she was protective of James Bond for good reason and generally tried to honor her father's legacy.

Amazon is going to suck away everything that made Bond great. Welp, it was a good run while it lasted.
The one consolation is that in 2035 the original James Bond novels are going to enter the public domain.

Hopefully that'll give other filmmakers freedom to do proper adaptations of the books. We know that the Amazon execs don't understand Bond. I have zero faith in them.
With everything revolving around streaming and a 24/7 flow of content, not to mention studios inevitably cutting corners with AI slop, you have to accept that the glory days of franchise filmmaking are over.

Audiences have evolved too. They were conditioned to accept this.
Read 5 tweets

Did Thread Reader help you today?

Support us! We are indie developers!


This site is made by just two indie developers on a laptop doing marketing, support and development! Read more about the story.

Become a Premium Member ($3/month or $30/year) and get exclusive features!

Become Premium

Don't want to be a Premium member but still want to support us?

Make a small donation by buying us coffee ($5) or help with server cost ($10)

Donate via Paypal

Or Donate anonymously using crypto!

Ethereum

0xfe58350B80634f60Fa6Dc149a72b4DFbc17D341E copy

Bitcoin

3ATGMxNzCUFzxpMCHL5sWSt4DVtS8UqXpi copy

Thank you for your support!

Follow Us!

:(