Thread by @MythNix

MICHAEL JORDAN: WHEN DID HE BECOME THE GOAT? 🧵

MJ fans love to say you have to win 6 titles to be the GOAT.

It’s a bad argument, for obvious reasons, and it’s NEVER been the criteria before.

What’s funny is MJ started getting referred to as the “GOAT” in…1989.

Want proof?

Prior to the 89 playoffs, most of the commentary on Jordan was that he may have had the best talent ever, but he wasn’t the best player yet.

Notice how, here in January, 1989, Roy Johnson actually calls out Jordan for being a bad teammate.

“Certainly not the best teammate.”

In the 89 playoffs, it all changed.

Bruce Jenkins, a well-known Bay Area columnist, mentioned in a June 1, 1989 article that the discussion of whether Jordan was the GOAT was happening in press rooms.

It makes sense, as there had been a flurry of articles in the prior 2 weeks.

Let’s look at some.

Here’s an article in the Minneapolis-St. Paul Tribune, comparing Jordan to Babe Ruth, on May 16, 1989.

MJ had ONE playoff series win as of this date

He hadn’t been to a CONFERENCE FINALS yet.

By the way, Kareem was a month from retiring. 🤔

The first syndicated articles were on May 21, 1989, the date of gm 1 of the CF with Detroit.

At this point, MJ:
Was 26
Had won 2 playoff series
Was 7-13 in PO games
Had several 4th quarter collapses
Had ZERO titles, 1 CF

Quite a low bar for GOAT, no?

Different standards, no?

In this article, the writer lists out serious challengers.

Note that he eliminates CHAMPIONSHIPS in the criteria right away. Why? Because they’re team accomplishments.

He then concludes it’s MJ.

Prior to 6 titles
Prior to ONE title
Prior to ever playing a CF game

🤔

On the same day, Knight-Ridder had an “MJ is GOAT” article.

This is fun— in it, MJ blames his teammates for his not being the GOAT yet. 🤦‍♂️

Jordan also gets excused for not getting elite help at the start like Magic and Bird.

MJ gets that excuse, not Lebron.

Different.

Here are 2 articles on May 28, 1989.

In one, both Bill Raftery and Rick Barry, 2 national lead basketball analysts/commentators, picked Jordan.

Where’s the discussion about needing 6 titles?

Kareem had 6 then. Magic 5.

But MJ needs NONE to be in the conversation?

Here’s an article on May 30th with quotes from experts.

Not one says “he needs 5 titles, then talk to me.”

Note, by the way, that Red Auerbach says MJ played a “loose defense” where “backcourt guys score a zillion points.”

But MJ STILL gets Red’s vote.

Different standards.

Here’s a fun one on June 4th where the writer argues Jordan ISN’T the GOAT yet, because he needs a title.

Of course, he doesn’t say he needs 6 to tie Kareem. Or 5 to tie Magic.

The fun part is the letters to the editor the next week from MJ fans argued he DIDN’T need a title!

It’s clear from these articles that:

MJ is absolutely IN the discussion for GOAT in May, 1989
Many have already concluded he’s the GOAT, with 0 titles
Those holding back are doing so because needs ONE title
Nobody says shit about “5 or 6” titles

These are LOWER standards.

The closest anyone gets to mentioning multiple titles is this breakout of the “top 10” all time, in the Detroit Press on May 18, 1989.

This criticizes West and Robertson for 1 title, and Wilt for having 2. It DOESN’T criticize Bird for only having 3.

So 2 is the cut-off. Not 6.

Finally, here’s a reference to Kareem being the GOAT in 1972…with ONE title, vs a 42 win team in the Finals.

So Kareem’s ONE clears Russell and Wilt
And MJ needed NONE to clear Kareem

But Lebron at FOUR, while being favored in only 3 Finals, doesn’t qualify.

Different.

MJ fans will argue that it was clearly after 1993, after the first 3Peat.

So, OK. that’s only 3.

Isn’t 6 > 3? Did I miss something?

But somehow “6 > 4” is now valid?

A goalpost got moved.

Lebron constantly has to clear what MJ himself didn’t have to clear.

Finally, MJ fans will argue that MJ “raised the bar.”

To what?

Kareem HAD 6 titles (+6 MVPs)
Magic had 5
Russell had 11

But MJ only needed 0-2.

The bar is always lower for MJ. It’s how you know Lebron is the GOAT.

Congrats on 6…but it was NEVER part of the GOAT debate.