Thread by @presbyterianpew

Tuesday afternoon OC begins an announcement that OC needs to be done by 6pm.

https://twitter.com/presbyterianpew/status/1937498247309984116

Discussion of O30 - clarifying calling of TEs out of bounds

Motion to answer in the affirmative: our BCO is designed for calling TEs to local church but not well designed for OOB calls. Amendment to remove "and other calls from outside the PCA" sustained without objection.

Amendment to add "if the call is approved by Presbytery" sustained without objection.

Amendment to add "to give instruction in the doctrines and duties of religion in a" to specify that teaching theology is a needful call sustained without objection.

Amendment to change "people of this calling entity" to "representative of this calling entity" to clarify not whole entity needs to show up. Sustained without objection.

Amendment to change "the Presbytery" to "that Presbytery" and two "musts" to "mays".

Question about previous amendment about "college or university". Amendment proposed to amend to add "school" to cover those teaching in a high school. Sustained without objection.

Amendment to change "the calling entity" to "such an entity" sustained without objection.

Amendment to make change re: school in another parallel portion of the Overture.

Amendment to strike question 2 and amend question 3 of vows for members/entity relevant to RUF ministry.

Motion to change "endeavors of instruction" to "endeavors in instruction".

Against motion: taking out vow 2 wouldn't work for TEs laboring OOB at non-PCA church.

Motion to change "endeavors of instruction" to "endeavors in instruction" sustained without objection.

For motion: we can't require churches in other denominations to take vows.

Amendment passes by voice vote.

Amendment to allow use of procedures in 13-2 for release and transfer. Sustained without objection.

Amendment to add consistency with capitalization of various terms. Sustained without objection.

Amendment to "impress upon" instead of "impress".

Against the amendment: creates inconsistency with another section of BCO.

Amendment fails by voice vote.

Question: what would happen if an entity didn't send a representative?
Answer from author of Overture: same thing as what would happen if a session didn't send commissioners to a Presbytery. Presbytery would take it under advisement. Can't make representative show up.

Vote on O30 to answer in the affirmative

Y: 112
N: 4
A: 7

Discussion of O24 - allowing sessions to determine man's character disqualifies for ordination, even after previous election to office

Amended to strike "the nominee" and replace it with "him". Passed by voice vote.

Vote on O24 to be answered in the affirmative

Y: 103
N: 12
A: 2

Discussion of O25 - new class of associate membership for honorably retired TEs

Rep from sending Presbytery moves it be referred back to Presbytery. Advice from CCB that it is in conflict; Presbytery wishes to reconsider.

Vote to refer O25 back to Presbytery
Y: 114
N: 2
A: 1

Discussion of O47 - study committee on Christian Nationalism

Move to answer in the affirmative: concerns about young men in the congregation reading unhelpful material. Took feedback about O3 and O4 to craft O47

Re: study committee fatigue "We are Presbyterian and two things Presbyterians are good at are studying and committees."

Substitute motion: adopt ARP statement as a statement of the 52nd #pcaga. CN has a very broad definition and in some cases involves something like white supremacy and ethnocentrism. We need a clear statement, but we don't need a study committee.

Against substitute: very sympathetic to motion and thankful for ARP statement, but CN goes beyond ethnocentricity and includes other things like eschatology, church/state relations, etc.

For substitute: it says what needs to be said. Not convinced that the matters raised rise to the level that needs a study committee. AICs can become extra-constitutional standard.

Against substitute: churches in Presbytery have asked for guidance on this matter. This statement will not fulfill that request. Maybe this isn't an issue in your Presbytery. It is definitely an issue in the western Presbyteries. We are asking for help. ARP statement ...

... adds unbiblical language "superiority of race" as there is only one race.

Amendment to substitute to remove "either by commission or omission" sustained without objection.

Against substitute: the ARP statement is excellent, can we adopt it AND still ask for study committee?

Another against substitute: move substitute of ARP statement as substitute to O48 instead of substitute to O47

Point of order: rule substitute out of order since it was requested that ARP statement be a substitute for O47 AND Os 3 and 4 which were not properly before the OC.

Maker of motion revises motion to propose ARP statement as substitute to only O47, not )s 3 and 4; point of order withdrawn.

Against substitute: I am not aware of the statement of the ARP so I cannot vote on that.

Information from the chair: the statement on the screen is the statement that was adopted.

Against the substitute: Concerns raised about theological statements made in a book about CN made by someone who claims no theological training. Speaker regularly fields questions from those influenced by these movements. Helpful to have clarity on language.

For substitute: O47 is the only CN study committee that mentions ethnocentrism. ARP statement should be a substitute for this O, not the pastoral statement in O48

Amendment to strike "or associate themselves with".

Against amendment: if we strike this language are we still accurately claiming to join with the ARP in their statement. Chairman said statement was noted as point of information.

For amendment: could be used for harm if someone was involved with a group in an evangelical effort and could be under criticism by that connection.

Against substitute: concerned about phrase "spiritual superiority" as troublesome narrowing of issue that needs to be addressed (what about intellectual or physiological superiority)?

Point of inquiry: can we see the original statement from ARP. Statement put on screen and read aloud by chairman. Statement also adopted by RPCNA.

Motion that we postpone discussion of O47 until after discussion of O48. Make a decision about pastoral guidance letter and then discuss study committee.

Against motion: three Presbyteries have asked for study committees. We shouldn't be derelict and push that back.

Voice vote to postpone passes but division is called.

Y: 66
N: 52
A: 6

Discussion of O47 is postponed.

Motion to move discussion of O3 and O4 after discussion of O47 (which is after O48). This was multiple motions but I've got typing fatigue.

Discussion of O48 - pastoral letter on church/state relationship

Substitute: ARP statement for pastoral letter. Amend to remove statement about joining with ARP and RPCNA since statement has been changed significantly.

Point of order: Rule this substitute out of order as not germane to original Overture.

Advice from the floor: if the intent of the Overture author was to skip the formation of a study committee, this does that and therefore would be germane.

Chair rules that substitute is germane but invites the chair to be challenged. Chair is challenged.

Shall the chair be sustained?

Y: 87
N: 34
A: 3

Substitute is germane.

For substitute: adopting this statement is short, sweet, and to the point. Addresses some of the concerns raised in study committee Overtures. Could be a good move for now, a stop-gap measure. Study committee later. Clear statement.

Amend to replace all of the original language in the ARP statement that was stricken during discussion of O47. Do we need to wordsmith all language of statement from other denominations? If we want to get into more detail, form a study committee...

... language of commission and omission is important. When we see these ideas popping up, we need to address them and not stay silent.

For amendment: if we're going to say we stand with other denominations, let's keep their language.

Against amendment: keep "commission and omission" out - committing a sin is different than refraining from speaking against a sin

For amendment: associating with ideas is not the same as associating with people.

Amendment: strike "associate themselves with"

Against amendment: tremendous pause to align with other denominations but change their language.

For amendment: it's appropriate for us to call to repentance those who associate with these ideas.

Voice vote on striking "or associate themselves with" fails by voice vote.

Back to main amendment is to include all original language.

Amendment to strike "offer the following as the pastoral letter" - this isn't a pastoral letter. Sustained without objection.

Motion to call the question. Passes by voice vote. Question is called.

Vote to make this amendment (essentially the ARP statement) the main passes by voice vote.

Vote to answer O48 in the affirmative as amended

Y: 113
N: 8
A: 1

Recommendation for ARP, RPCNA statement to replace Pastoral Letter

Back to discussion of O47 - CN study committee

Substitute ARP statement for O47 (previously started discussion revisited) fails by voice vote.

Motion to answer O47 in the affirmative.

Amendment to add $2,500 commitment from Arizona Presbytery, and $5,000/year commitment from South Texas Presbytery. (This is language already included in the Overtures from these two Presbyteries.) Showing that at least for the first year, $8,500 of $10k is already committed.

For amendment: commissioner from Arizona Presbytery says "We like it".

Substitute motion to answer O47 in reference to O48.

Against substitute: what was determined in debate about statement in O48 confirms that it doesn't answer all the issues.

For substitute: AIC reports given undue weight, no idea what study committee would come back with and how that would impact us in future years

Motion to call the question (amendment re: money). Amendment is approved by voice vote.

Against substitute: intensity of debate seems to have made it clear that this is a real pastoral need. A number of Presbyteries are asking for help. Urge OC to respond to entreaties of local Presbyteries currently embattled with these issues.

For substitute: responding to the statement that we have a duty to respond. The duty is with the lower courts. It would be better if sessions and Presbyteries begin dealing with these.

Amendment: strike $10k and change it to $8.5k to match commitments so that there is not a need to amend the AC budget.

Against amendment: since $10k is per year and not all commitments are per year that won't work.

Amendment (to change $10k to $8.5k) fails by voice vote.

Call the previous question. Passes by voice vote.

Should the substitute (answer O47 by reference to O48) become the main? Fails by voice vote.

Substitute motion to answer O47 in reference to actions by other previous General Assemblies: 16th, 42nd, 44th, and 46th.

Against substitute: former papers referenced, but there is technical nuance to current issues that require technical responses.

Substitute to answer with reference to previous GA statements fails by voice vote.

Voting on O47 in affirmative as amended

Y: 73
N: 50
A: 0

Motion to answer O3 with reference to O47.

Y: 113
N: 7
A: 2

Motion to answer O4 with reference to O47.

Y: 104
N: 6
A: 3

Summary of what has been done this afternoon. 5 minute recess.

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