I’ve posted on this before but X search function leaves a lot to be desired. So I’m reposting this.
Can @VP Override the Parliamentarian’s Recommendations?
Yup, Vice President JD Vance, as President of the Senate, can override the Senate Parliamentarian’s recommendations. The Parliamentarian advises on Senate rules, like whether a provision in a budget reconciliation bill fits the Byrd Rule, but their advice isn’t binding. When presiding, Vance can make a procedural ruling that goes against the Parliamentarian, like keeping a provision they flagged as non compliant. This power comes from the Constitution (Article I, Section 3), which makes the VP the President of the Senate. It’s rare, though, since the Parliamentarian’s the expert & overriding them can stir up trouble.
▪️ Can the Senate Majority Leader Override the Parliamentarian?
The Senate Majority Leader, John Thune (@LeaderThune), doesn’t have direct authority to override the Parliamentarian’s recommendations like Vance does, as he’s not the presiding officer.
However, Thune can effectively override the Parliamentarian indirectly by leveraging his leadership role to influence Senate votes or, in extreme cases, by replacing the Parliamentarian.
▪️ Who Can Override the Parliamentarian?
▫️ The Presiding Officer (Vance): As VP, Vance can issue a ruling when presiding, like allowing a provision in a reconciliation bill that the Parliamentarian says violates the Byrd Rule. This is a direct override, subject to Senate challenge.
▫️ The Senate Itself: The full Senate can override the Parliamentarian by voting to waive a point of order raised to enforce the Parliamentarian’s advice (e.g., striking a non-compliant provision). This typically requires 60 votes for Byrd Rule violations in reconciliation. Alternatively, the Senate can uphold a VP’s ruling against the Parliamentarian with a simple majority (51 votes, or 50 plus Vance’s tiebreaker).
▫️ The Senate Majority Leader (Thune): Thune can’t make procedural rulings like Vance, as he’s not the presiding officer. However, he can orchestrate an override by rallying the Senate to vote against the Parliamentarian’s advice or, rarely, by replacing the Parliamentarian with someone whose advice aligns with his goals. This is less about direct authority & more about political maneuvering.
▪️ Steps for the Senate Majority Leader to Override the Parliamentarian
Here’s how Thune, as Senate Majority Leader, could effectively override the Parliamentarian’s recommendations, though it’s indirect and relies on Senate action:
▫️ Parliamentarian’s Advice: The Parliamentarian rules that a provision, say in a reconciliation bill, violates the Byrd Rule (e.g., it’s not budget-related).
▫️ Point of Order Raised: A senator, often prompted by the minority (e.g., @SenateDems), raises a point of order to strike the provision based on the Parliamentarian’s advice.
▫️ Thune’s Leadership Move: Thune can rally his party to vote to waive the point of order, overriding the Parliamentarian’s recommendation. For Byrd Rule violations, this requires a three-fifths majority (60 votes), which is tough with only 53 Republican seats in 2025 unless some Democrats agree. Thune’s role is to whip votes, using his influence to secure the majority needed.
▫️ Senate Vote: If Thune succeeds, the Senate votes to waive the point of order, keeping the provision despite the Parliamentarian’s advice. This sets a precedent allowing the provision to stay in the bill.
Can @VP Override the Parliamentarian’s Recommendations?
Yup, Vice President JD Vance, as President of the Senate, can override the Senate Parliamentarian’s recommendations. The Parliamentarian advises on Senate rules, like whether a provision in a budget reconciliation bill fits the Byrd Rule, but their advice isn’t binding. When presiding, Vance can make a procedural ruling that goes against the Parliamentarian, like keeping a provision they flagged as non compliant. This power comes from the Constitution (Article I, Section 3), which makes the VP the President of the Senate. It’s rare, though, since the Parliamentarian’s the expert & overriding them can stir up trouble.
▪️ Can the Senate Majority Leader Override the Parliamentarian?
The Senate Majority Leader, John Thune (@LeaderThune), doesn’t have direct authority to override the Parliamentarian’s recommendations like Vance does, as he’s not the presiding officer.
However, Thune can effectively override the Parliamentarian indirectly by leveraging his leadership role to influence Senate votes or, in extreme cases, by replacing the Parliamentarian.
▪️ Who Can Override the Parliamentarian?
▫️ The Presiding Officer (Vance): As VP, Vance can issue a ruling when presiding, like allowing a provision in a reconciliation bill that the Parliamentarian says violates the Byrd Rule. This is a direct override, subject to Senate challenge.
▫️ The Senate Itself: The full Senate can override the Parliamentarian by voting to waive a point of order raised to enforce the Parliamentarian’s advice (e.g., striking a non-compliant provision). This typically requires 60 votes for Byrd Rule violations in reconciliation. Alternatively, the Senate can uphold a VP’s ruling against the Parliamentarian with a simple majority (51 votes, or 50 plus Vance’s tiebreaker).
▫️ The Senate Majority Leader (Thune): Thune can’t make procedural rulings like Vance, as he’s not the presiding officer. However, he can orchestrate an override by rallying the Senate to vote against the Parliamentarian’s advice or, rarely, by replacing the Parliamentarian with someone whose advice aligns with his goals. This is less about direct authority & more about political maneuvering.
▪️ Steps for the Senate Majority Leader to Override the Parliamentarian
Here’s how Thune, as Senate Majority Leader, could effectively override the Parliamentarian’s recommendations, though it’s indirect and relies on Senate action:
▫️ Parliamentarian’s Advice: The Parliamentarian rules that a provision, say in a reconciliation bill, violates the Byrd Rule (e.g., it’s not budget-related).
▫️ Point of Order Raised: A senator, often prompted by the minority (e.g., @SenateDems), raises a point of order to strike the provision based on the Parliamentarian’s advice.
▫️ Thune’s Leadership Move: Thune can rally his party to vote to waive the point of order, overriding the Parliamentarian’s recommendation. For Byrd Rule violations, this requires a three-fifths majority (60 votes), which is tough with only 53 Republican seats in 2025 unless some Democrats agree. Thune’s role is to whip votes, using his influence to secure the majority needed.
▫️ Senate Vote: If Thune succeeds, the Senate votes to waive the point of order, keeping the provision despite the Parliamentarian’s advice. This sets a precedent allowing the provision to stay in the bill.
▫️ Alternative Path (Firing the Parliamentarian):
In a rare, extreme case, Thune could move to dismiss the Parliamentarian & appoint a new one whose advice aligns with Republican goals. The Majority Leader has the authority to hire & fire the Parliamentarian, as seen in 2001 when Trent Lott fired Robert Dove after disagreements over reconciliation. This isn’t a direct override of a specific ruling but changes the source of advice, effectively bypassing the original recommendation. It’s a nuclear option, politically risky & rarely used. Note: having Parliamentarian required by law or Senate Rules.
▫️ Outcome: A successful waiver vote (60 votes) or a new Parliamentarian’s aligned advice lets Thune achieve the override, but it’s dependent on Senate support or his administrative power, not a direct ruling like Vance’s.
▪️ Steps for the Vice President to Override the Parliamentarian
For comparison, here’s how Vance overrides the Parliamentarian:
▫️ Parliamentarian’s Advice: The Parliamentarian says a provision breaks the Byrd Rule.
▫️ Vance’s Ruling: Vance, presiding, rules against the Parliamentarian, declaring the provision is fine.
▫️ Challenge: A senator raises a point of order to challenge Vance’s ruling. You can bet a Senate Dem will challenge.
▫️ Senate Vote: The Senate votes to uphold or reject Vance’s ruling, needing only a simple majority (51 votes, or 50 plus Vance’s tiebreaker). If upheld, the provision stays & a new precedent may be set.
▫️ Outcome: Vance’s override is faster & requires fewer votes (51 vs. 60) than Thune’s approach, as it leverages his presiding authority.
▪️ Why Can’t @LeaderThune Do What @VP Can?
Thune can’t override the Parliamentarian the same way Vance can because their roles differ:
▫️ Vance’s Presiding Power: As President of the Senate, Vance has constitutional authority (Article I, Section 3) to make procedural rulings when presiding, like keeping a provision the Parliamentarian rejects. His ruling can be upheld by a simple majority, making it a direct override.
▫️ Thune’s Political Role: Thune, as Majority Leader, manages the Senate’s agenda, schedules votes & rallies Republicans, but he doesn’t preside or make procedural rulings unless temporarily acting as presiding officer (rare).
To override the Parliamentarian, Thune must rely on Senate votes (60 for a waiver, or 51 to back a VP’s ruling) or the extreme step of replacing the Parliamentarian, which is indirect and riskier.
▫️ Thune’s Institutional Stance: Thune’s vowed not to overrule the Parliamentarian on major bills like Trump’s “megabill” (American Greatness, June 2025), preferring to work within rules like the Byrd bath to avoid setting precedents Democrats could exploit later. Vance, aligned with Trump’s bold agenda, faces less pressure to stick to tradition.
👉🏻▫️ Vote Thresholds: Thune’s override via a waiver needs 60 votes for Byrd Rule issues, harder with 53 Republican seats, while Vance’s ruling needs only 51, giving Vance an easier path.
Sources:
•U.S. Constitution, Article I, Section 3: senate.gov/about/origins-…
•Senate Parliamentarian’s Role: senate.gov/about/powers-p…
•Byrd Rule and Reconciliation: senate.gov/about/powers-p…
•Congressional Research Service, Senate Rules and Precedents: crs.gov/reports/R46243
•Historical Examples (Cheney, Pence): congress.gov/congressional-…
•X Posts (June 24–26, 2025): General sentiment from public X posts, accessible via X search for “JD Vance Parliamentarian” or “Senate filibuster” during the specified dates.
•American Greatness, Thune’s Stance on Parliamentarian (June 2025): amgreatness.com/2025/06/24/thu…
In a rare, extreme case, Thune could move to dismiss the Parliamentarian & appoint a new one whose advice aligns with Republican goals. The Majority Leader has the authority to hire & fire the Parliamentarian, as seen in 2001 when Trent Lott fired Robert Dove after disagreements over reconciliation. This isn’t a direct override of a specific ruling but changes the source of advice, effectively bypassing the original recommendation. It’s a nuclear option, politically risky & rarely used. Note: having Parliamentarian required by law or Senate Rules.
▫️ Outcome: A successful waiver vote (60 votes) or a new Parliamentarian’s aligned advice lets Thune achieve the override, but it’s dependent on Senate support or his administrative power, not a direct ruling like Vance’s.
▪️ Steps for the Vice President to Override the Parliamentarian
For comparison, here’s how Vance overrides the Parliamentarian:
▫️ Parliamentarian’s Advice: The Parliamentarian says a provision breaks the Byrd Rule.
▫️ Vance’s Ruling: Vance, presiding, rules against the Parliamentarian, declaring the provision is fine.
▫️ Challenge: A senator raises a point of order to challenge Vance’s ruling. You can bet a Senate Dem will challenge.
▫️ Senate Vote: The Senate votes to uphold or reject Vance’s ruling, needing only a simple majority (51 votes, or 50 plus Vance’s tiebreaker). If upheld, the provision stays & a new precedent may be set.
▫️ Outcome: Vance’s override is faster & requires fewer votes (51 vs. 60) than Thune’s approach, as it leverages his presiding authority.
▪️ Why Can’t @LeaderThune Do What @VP Can?
Thune can’t override the Parliamentarian the same way Vance can because their roles differ:
▫️ Vance’s Presiding Power: As President of the Senate, Vance has constitutional authority (Article I, Section 3) to make procedural rulings when presiding, like keeping a provision the Parliamentarian rejects. His ruling can be upheld by a simple majority, making it a direct override.
▫️ Thune’s Political Role: Thune, as Majority Leader, manages the Senate’s agenda, schedules votes & rallies Republicans, but he doesn’t preside or make procedural rulings unless temporarily acting as presiding officer (rare).
To override the Parliamentarian, Thune must rely on Senate votes (60 for a waiver, or 51 to back a VP’s ruling) or the extreme step of replacing the Parliamentarian, which is indirect and riskier.
▫️ Thune’s Institutional Stance: Thune’s vowed not to overrule the Parliamentarian on major bills like Trump’s “megabill” (American Greatness, June 2025), preferring to work within rules like the Byrd bath to avoid setting precedents Democrats could exploit later. Vance, aligned with Trump’s bold agenda, faces less pressure to stick to tradition.
👉🏻▫️ Vote Thresholds: Thune’s override via a waiver needs 60 votes for Byrd Rule issues, harder with 53 Republican seats, while Vance’s ruling needs only 51, giving Vance an easier path.
Sources:
•U.S. Constitution, Article I, Section 3: senate.gov/about/origins-…
•Senate Parliamentarian’s Role: senate.gov/about/powers-p…
•Byrd Rule and Reconciliation: senate.gov/about/powers-p…
•Congressional Research Service, Senate Rules and Precedents: crs.gov/reports/R46243
•Historical Examples (Cheney, Pence): congress.gov/congressional-…
•X Posts (June 24–26, 2025): General sentiment from public X posts, accessible via X search for “JD Vance Parliamentarian” or “Senate filibuster” during the specified dates.
•American Greatness, Thune’s Stance on Parliamentarian (June 2025): amgreatness.com/2025/06/24/thu…
▪️ How Does the Filibuster Play a Role in VP & Senate Leader Overrides with @SenateDems Obstruction?
The filibuster, requiring 60 votes to end debate on most bills, is a big deal with full obstruction by Senate Democrats (@SenateDems), who hold 47 seats in 2025.
Here’s how it affects both Vance’s & Thune’s override efforts:
▫️ Filibuster on Regular Legislation: For non reconciliation bills, Democrats can filibuster, blocking them unless Republicans get 60 votes, needing at least 7 Democrats with full obstruction. Neither Vance’s nor Thune’s override powers directly affect these bills, as the Parliamentarian’s role is less relevant outside reconciliation.
▪️Reconciliation and Filibuster Immunity: Reconciliation bills, used for tax & spending, bypass the filibuster, needing only 51 votes (or 50 plus Vance’s tiebreaker). The Parliamentarian enforces the Byrd Rule, limiting provisions to budget related matters.
▫️Vance’s Override: If Vance overrules the Parliamentarian to allow a non-budget provision (e.g., border security) & the Senate upholds it with 51 votes, it stays in the reconciliation bill, dodging Democratic filibusters entirely. The vote to uphold Vance’s ruling isn’t filibusterable, as Senate Rule XX & precedents (Congressional Research Service) require only a majority for points of order in reconciliation.
▫️Thune’s Override: If Thune pushes to waive a point of order enforcing the Parliamentarian’s advice, it needs 60 votes for Byrd Rule violations. With full Democratic obstruction, getting 60 is nearly impossible with 53 Republicans, making Thune’s path harder than Vance’s. Firing the Parliamentarian avoids this but doesn’t involve a vote, so the filibuster is irrelevant there.
▫️ CRA & Filibuster: Congressional Review Act resolutions, like overturning regulations, also avoid the filibuster, needing 51 votes. In 2025, Republicans overrode the Parliamentarian to pass a CRA resolution against California’s EV mandate, showing how Thune or Vance can bypass Democratic filibusters in specific cases.
▫️ Filibuster’s Impact on Overrides: The filibuster doesn’t apply to votes on points of order or appeals in reconciliation (simple majority for Vance’s ruling, 60 for Thune’s waiver). This makes Vance’s override more effective against Democratic obstruction, as it needs fewer votes. Thune’s waiver approach struggles with the 60 vote threshold under full obstruction.
▪️ How Does the Senate Override the Parliamentarian?
The Senate itself can override the Parliamentarian, separate from Vance or Thune, through a voting process:
▫️ Parliamentarian’s Advice: The Parliamentarian rules a provision violates Senate rules, like the Byrd Rule.
▫️ Point of Order: A senator raises a point of order to strike the provision, aligning with the Parliamentarian’s advice.
▫️ Waiver Vote: The Senate can vote to waive the point of order, overriding the Parliamentarian. For Byrd Rule violations, this needs 60 votes (three-fifths). If successful, the provision stays.
▫️ Alternative (Upholding VP): If Vance rules against the Parliamentarian, the Senate can uphold his ruling with 51 votes, also overriding the Parliamentarian.
▫️ Filibuster Note: Neither vote (waiver or appeal) is subject to a filibuster, per Senate rules, so Democratic obstruction doesn’t block these directly, though the 60-vote waiver is tough with 47 Democrats united.
▪️ What’s Vance’s & Thune’s Role in This?
Vance is key because he can directly override the Parliamentarian with a ruling, needing only 51 votes to uphold it. Historical examples include Dick Cheney in 2001, who overruled the Parliamentarian on a tax cut & Mike Pence in 2017, who was ready to do it for Obamacare repeal.
Thune’s role is indirect, rallying votes for a 60-vote waiver or, rarely, replacing the Parliamentarian, as Trent Lott did in 2001. With 53 Republican seats, Vance’s path (51 votes) is easier than Thune’s (60 votes) under Democratic obstruction.
The filibuster, requiring 60 votes to end debate on most bills, is a big deal with full obstruction by Senate Democrats (@SenateDems), who hold 47 seats in 2025.
Here’s how it affects both Vance’s & Thune’s override efforts:
▫️ Filibuster on Regular Legislation: For non reconciliation bills, Democrats can filibuster, blocking them unless Republicans get 60 votes, needing at least 7 Democrats with full obstruction. Neither Vance’s nor Thune’s override powers directly affect these bills, as the Parliamentarian’s role is less relevant outside reconciliation.
▪️Reconciliation and Filibuster Immunity: Reconciliation bills, used for tax & spending, bypass the filibuster, needing only 51 votes (or 50 plus Vance’s tiebreaker). The Parliamentarian enforces the Byrd Rule, limiting provisions to budget related matters.
▫️Vance’s Override: If Vance overrules the Parliamentarian to allow a non-budget provision (e.g., border security) & the Senate upholds it with 51 votes, it stays in the reconciliation bill, dodging Democratic filibusters entirely. The vote to uphold Vance’s ruling isn’t filibusterable, as Senate Rule XX & precedents (Congressional Research Service) require only a majority for points of order in reconciliation.
▫️Thune’s Override: If Thune pushes to waive a point of order enforcing the Parliamentarian’s advice, it needs 60 votes for Byrd Rule violations. With full Democratic obstruction, getting 60 is nearly impossible with 53 Republicans, making Thune’s path harder than Vance’s. Firing the Parliamentarian avoids this but doesn’t involve a vote, so the filibuster is irrelevant there.
▫️ CRA & Filibuster: Congressional Review Act resolutions, like overturning regulations, also avoid the filibuster, needing 51 votes. In 2025, Republicans overrode the Parliamentarian to pass a CRA resolution against California’s EV mandate, showing how Thune or Vance can bypass Democratic filibusters in specific cases.
▫️ Filibuster’s Impact on Overrides: The filibuster doesn’t apply to votes on points of order or appeals in reconciliation (simple majority for Vance’s ruling, 60 for Thune’s waiver). This makes Vance’s override more effective against Democratic obstruction, as it needs fewer votes. Thune’s waiver approach struggles with the 60 vote threshold under full obstruction.
▪️ How Does the Senate Override the Parliamentarian?
The Senate itself can override the Parliamentarian, separate from Vance or Thune, through a voting process:
▫️ Parliamentarian’s Advice: The Parliamentarian rules a provision violates Senate rules, like the Byrd Rule.
▫️ Point of Order: A senator raises a point of order to strike the provision, aligning with the Parliamentarian’s advice.
▫️ Waiver Vote: The Senate can vote to waive the point of order, overriding the Parliamentarian. For Byrd Rule violations, this needs 60 votes (three-fifths). If successful, the provision stays.
▫️ Alternative (Upholding VP): If Vance rules against the Parliamentarian, the Senate can uphold his ruling with 51 votes, also overriding the Parliamentarian.
▫️ Filibuster Note: Neither vote (waiver or appeal) is subject to a filibuster, per Senate rules, so Democratic obstruction doesn’t block these directly, though the 60-vote waiver is tough with 47 Democrats united.
▪️ What’s Vance’s & Thune’s Role in This?
Vance is key because he can directly override the Parliamentarian with a ruling, needing only 51 votes to uphold it. Historical examples include Dick Cheney in 2001, who overruled the Parliamentarian on a tax cut & Mike Pence in 2017, who was ready to do it for Obamacare repeal.
Thune’s role is indirect, rallying votes for a 60-vote waiver or, rarely, replacing the Parliamentarian, as Trent Lott did in 2001. With 53 Republican seats, Vance’s path (51 votes) is easier than Thune’s (60 votes) under Democratic obstruction.
Bottom line:
@VP JD Vance can directly override the Parliamentarian by ruling against their advice, needing 51 votes to uphold it, while John Thune can indirectly override by rallying a 60 vote waiver or replacing the Parliamentarian, a rare move.
The Senate can override with a 60 vote waiver or by backing VP’s ruling. The filibuster doesn’t apply to override votes, making Vance’s path easier against @SenateDems’ obstruction, as it needs fewer votes than Thune’s.
Reconciliation & CRA resolutions dodge filibusters, amplifying override power, but risks include new precedents & political backlash.
Sources:
▫️U.S. Constitution, Article I, Section 3: https://www.senate. gov/about/origins-foundations/senate-and-constitution/constitution.htm
▫️Senate Parliamentarian’s Role: https://www.senate. gov/about/powers-procedures/parliamentarian.htm
▫️Byrd Rule and Reconciliation: https://www.senate. gov/about/powers-procedures/rules-precedents/byrd-rule.htm
▫️Congressional Research Service, Senate Rules and Precedents: www.crs. gov/reports/R46243
▫️Historical Examples (Cheney, Pence, Lott): https://www.congress. gov/congressional-record
▫️American Greatness, Thune’s Stance on Parliamentarian (June 2025): https://amgreatness. com/2025/06/24/thune-signals-opposition-to-overriding-parliamentarian-on-megabill/
@VP JD Vance can directly override the Parliamentarian by ruling against their advice, needing 51 votes to uphold it, while John Thune can indirectly override by rallying a 60 vote waiver or replacing the Parliamentarian, a rare move.
The Senate can override with a 60 vote waiver or by backing VP’s ruling. The filibuster doesn’t apply to override votes, making Vance’s path easier against @SenateDems’ obstruction, as it needs fewer votes than Thune’s.
Reconciliation & CRA resolutions dodge filibusters, amplifying override power, but risks include new precedents & political backlash.
Sources:
▫️U.S. Constitution, Article I, Section 3: https://www.senate. gov/about/origins-foundations/senate-and-constitution/constitution.htm
▫️Senate Parliamentarian’s Role: https://www.senate. gov/about/powers-procedures/parliamentarian.htm
▫️Byrd Rule and Reconciliation: https://www.senate. gov/about/powers-procedures/rules-precedents/byrd-rule.htm
▫️Congressional Research Service, Senate Rules and Precedents: www.crs. gov/reports/R46243
▫️Historical Examples (Cheney, Pence, Lott): https://www.congress. gov/congressional-record
▫️American Greatness, Thune’s Stance on Parliamentarian (June 2025): https://amgreatness. com/2025/06/24/thune-signals-opposition-to-overriding-parliamentarian-on-megabill/
The fact that @VP overruling the Senate Parliamentarian since 1975 - it's still legal to use. Ultimately, the use of this rule underscores the importance of passing H.R.1 / OBBB to advance @POTUS's agenda that puts Americans First.
Don’t be surprised if @VP steps into his role as President of the Senate. Given the current obstructionist climate within the @DNC, I believe it's a tool that should absolutely be used.
For everyone’s knowledge bank:
The most recent instance of @vp overruling Parliamentarian was in 1975, when Vice President Nelson Rockefeller overruled Senate Parliamentarian Floyd Riddick’s advice on procedures for changing the Senate’s filibuster rules.
▫️ Details: Rockefeller’s ruling aimed to facilitate a vote on altering the filibuster threshold. It was highly controversial, leading both parties to agree the next week to alter the rule via standard procedures to avoid setting a precedent.
▫️ Other Historical Examples: Vice President Hubert Humphrey overruled the Parliamentarian on filibuster threshold issues in 1967 and 1969. No Vice President has overruled the Parliamentarian since 1975.
Don’t be surprised if @VP steps into his role as President of the Senate. Given the current obstructionist climate within the @DNC, I believe it's a tool that should absolutely be used.
For everyone’s knowledge bank:
The most recent instance of @vp overruling Parliamentarian was in 1975, when Vice President Nelson Rockefeller overruled Senate Parliamentarian Floyd Riddick’s advice on procedures for changing the Senate’s filibuster rules.
▫️ Details: Rockefeller’s ruling aimed to facilitate a vote on altering the filibuster threshold. It was highly controversial, leading both parties to agree the next week to alter the rule via standard procedures to avoid setting a precedent.
▫️ Other Historical Examples: Vice President Hubert Humphrey overruled the Parliamentarian on filibuster threshold issues in 1967 and 1969. No Vice President has overruled the Parliamentarian since 1975.
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