Thread by @CharCubed

OOOOO. EPISODE 4, BAYBEE. I'M HAVING THE TIME OF MY LIFE, PUN INTENDED.

Are Loki & #Sylvie in love, & #Mobius knows it? Is Sylki canon? What happened to #Lokius? Yada yada yada, I've got my thoughts & I'm here to break them down for you.

This is (still) a love story.
Thread ⬇️

Firstly, in case you're new here, below is the "previously on" edition of Char Writes Long Loki Meta. I suggest reading it now if you haven't before, though obviously I'm not your boss. But it's your prerequisite for understanding why this is a love story!

Here we go.
So I feel as if there are 2 ~big themes~ going on in regards to Loki's growth when it comes to love.

1. Learning to love yourself & knowing you DON'T DESERVE to be alone.
2. Learning to trust/love people who aren’t you, so you WON'T BE alone.

These are not the same.

1. One is self-love directed inwards, which kind of tangentially connects to a search for purpose & knowing oneself.

2. The other is directed outwards, trusting & valuing those you can maybe relate to but who are still different from or independent of yourself.

I'm sure you see where I'm going with this (as you may see where I'm going with any bits of this thread along the way!), but bear with me as I spell things out to construct my argument(s):

Sylvie primarily serves the first function.
Mobius primarily serves the second.

Many things are established in episode 1, including these ~big themes~.

Mobius digs into Loki's character, & we find out Loki thinks poorly of himself. The bravado stripped away, he calls himself "weak" & "a villain." Self-hatred & desire for purpose are on full display.

He DOESN'T know who he is, & as a result, he doesn't value or love himself either.

He's the "God of Mischief," but what does that MEAN? He doesn't know, & so Loki's villainy is a "desperate play for control" as he flounders about, knowing he's chaotic but not how to channel it.

Enter both #Mobius & #Sylvie–quite literally, as that's how episode one ends. Mobius can't offer Loki salvation, but CAN offer him "something better," which has a double meaning: outward love via him, & inward love via Sylvie the "fugitive Variant."

The other aspect of this is trust.

"Trust is for children and dogs. There's only one person you can trust."
"Yourself? I like it."

And so... episode 1 Loki needs to learn to not only value himself, but also trust/value others who are NOT HIM.

Now, before I continue, let me clarify something:

No, Sylvie & Loki are not 100% the same exact being in all aspects.

But they are, for the intent of the story, framed as "the same." They are both Lokis, & that's the tool used to narratively tell a story about self-love.

So, speaking of self-love... THAT is what the moment on Lamentis is about: #Sylvie & #Loki loving/valuing each other, as well as what makes a Loki a Loki.

“You’re amazing,” one Loki says to another Loki, seeing the best in each other–& thus, for a moment, in themselves.

That self-love is something Loki struggles with.

Loki partially believes he deserves to be alone–& fears it–BECAUSE he dislikes himself.

The 2 big themes go hand in hand. Loki needs to TRULY value himself first, in order to believe he doesn't deserve to be alone forever.

So, briefly on Lamentis, being a Loki didn’t seem so bad. That "connection" was self-love (at least in part), which is unusual for a Loki to experience–MAYBE even to the point of being a Nexus :(

It also opens doors to our Loki loving & trusting others. But more on that later.

(It’s ALSO possible the actual Nexus event could connect to a sense of purpose. The universe manifests Chaos, & thus manifests Loki; chaos & destruction is now, actually, a good thing, as it is needed to presumably end the TVA & restore the natural order of the multiverse!)

(So maybe, undying Lokis being about to die was, in itself, the actual Nexus event–something the universe could not allow.

Buuuuttt that’s its own thread of theories & thoughts, & also connects to how I see Sylvie’s character, & that’s a topic for another time lol.)

The point, for the purpose of this thread, is the following: That Nexus event was not a result of a Loki/Sylvie romance. Their emotional bonding moment together wasn't romance either, full stop.

At minimum, the moment is about self-love, which is big theme #1.
As for theme #2...

What’s up with #Mobius calling it a romance then? What’s going on in the interrogation?

Oh, a great many things, & this is absolutely my favorite part.

Much like last week when I broke down the “love” conversations, we’re gonna break this down & remove any confusion you’ve got.

Immediately, please recognize that Mobius’ actions are those of a jilted lover. I'm about to give you more context for that, but:

As Loki wrote down in episode 3 to remember later, “Love is hate.”

That’s exactly what Mobius’ episode 4 actions are about.

He sticks Loki in a room so he can be kicked down physically & emotionally. The words Sif are saying to Loki were chosen by Mobius deliberately, with INTENT. It’s what Mobius wants to say to him. Imagine the words in Mobius’ voice.

It is deeply personal, which is why it’s cruel.

Loki even says it himself: "Stop beating me up.”

Imaginary Sif isn’t beating Loki.
#Mobius is, and #Loki knows it and feels it.

Mobius even calls him a cockroach! He's PISSED.

Speaking of words chosen with care, my God, the interrogation scene is a goldmine.

First: the “partners” talk. Mobius is calling himself a (past) partner of Loki here.

They were partners, & Loki betrayed him. “It was a means to an end.”

Where have we heard of this method of Loki's before?

Oh yeah. Loki’s tactic, per Mobius in episode one, is "wooing powerful people he intends to betray."

Wooing is not platonic.

Next, the word “real.”
What’s real? What isn’t? That's a huge pillar of the story being told here, as discussed with regards to episode 3.

& the word “prince” is thrown in there for good measure, for an even stronger callback to the bi discussion of love.

You know what’s also not platonic?
“It’s over.” That’s breakup terminology.

And while “tete-a-tete” doesn’t HAVE to indicate romance, it means a private/intimate meeting, and–when used to refer to an object–it’s a synonym for “love seat.” I PROMISE I'm not making that up.

So Mobius is pissed & being cruel as a result, feels betrayed, they’ve just broken up… & he gets an inkling of Loki maybe liking someone else.

Never mind that Loki doesn’t like Sylvie THAT WAY–Mobius is already hurting, so this is icing on the cake. Jealousy kicks in HARD.

Mobius is simultaneously the voice of heteronormativity here, AND voicing reasons why Loki/Sylvie doesn’t work.

Romance between Loki/Sylvie is loudly introduced not as a possibility but as something to disparage–by a character we are meant to like/sympathize with.

"It’s breaking my reality right now.”

Mobius’ reality, where he and Loki had something going on that’s now ended–and oh, it didn’t just END. Was Loki basically cheating on him? Maybe he and Sylvie ARE “partners”? Was the betrayal that comprehensive? Sure feels that way to him!

So, the scene comes to a head, & the way it progresses... what ultimately wears Loki down is the idea that Mobius INSISTS he & Sylvie are romantically together.

Loki explodes, & he’s basically like, I AM TRYING TO PROTECT & HELP *YOU,* MOBIUS. THE TVA TOOK *YOUR* LIFE.

But Mobius isn’t listening (or is pretending he isn’t).

He circles right back around to insulting Loki, kicking him while he’s down, and pairing him right back up with Sylvie. Loki more or less gives up.

Bonus: earlier in the scene, Loki said “our interests are aligned” about him & Sylvie. Note that after that, Mobius jealously acts like Loki/Sylvie are romantically together. So him saying “our interests are no longer aligned”? Again, that’s a scathing breakup line. Not platonic.

Considering that scene spurned a large amount of discourse, I think that extensive breakdown was necessary lol. So not only is the scene blatant about how this is a love story in regards to Loki/Mobius, it’s also heavy on misdirection, while assuring us Loki/Sylvie is not viable.

They had Mobius point out the absurdity (no shade from me to people who ship it tho) of the idea of Loki/Sylvie, while also LEANING INTO the fact that they KNOW heteronormativity means the audience will *still assume the opposite.*

It's because they intend to subvert it later.

Now… let’s point out some other phrasing choices in this episode, shall we? What else can we learn about #Mobius?

For one, “YOUR Loki.” Not all Lokis are created equal–not anymore–and there is one very specific #Loki who Mobius is now connected to.

Mobius had to let go of the idea of seeing Lokis as a monolith.

His Loki is VERY over him acting that way, too. In the ~makeup~ scene (as opposed to the breakup, haha), Loki doesn’t let him hide: this isn’t about Mobius trusting 2 Lokis.

It’s about Mobius trusting ONE. Him.

And it’s mutual. remember, that was ~big theme~ number 2: Loki had to trust outside of himself.

He can’t solely trust Sylvie, who IS him for story purposes.

Mobius is that “outside” person who has been instrumental in this aspect of Loki’s growth.

In a way, Mobius & Loki are both working through that theme, though Mobius’ is more subtle. He & Ravonna are paralleled to Loki & Sylvie a bit.
“Same as me” / “Friendship like ours is uncommon”
Loki & Mobius need each other, not just themselves / those who are “the same as them.”

& so, to route us back to our big themes…
After all the hurt, Mobius tells Loki this: you can be whoever, whatever you want to be.
It’s an apology for saying otherwise, & it’s also permission: Loki, it’s okay to choose who you are, & like that person.
Big theme #1: self-love.

& because MOBIUS is the one saying that to him here too… it connects to big theme #2 more strongly.

Mobius told Loki something he’s been waiting his whole life to hear. If Loki can embrace self-love more, & know he doesn't deserve to be alone, maybe he can find love in others.

But WAIT: there's more! (lol)

The pruning.
First: Mobius. Remember the CONTEXT behind “love is hate”?

“A pity the old woman chose to die, don’t you think?”
“She was in love.”
“She hated him.”
“Maybe love is hate.”

*Mobius aligns with Loki & gets pruned*

Just interesting.

& then, Loki. this is the other thing heteronormativity makes people fight over: what was Loki on about here?

Well, I can’t say for 100% certain what it IS, but it was NOT a genuine romantic confession. Based on, y’know, there being 0 story evidence to support that possibility.

But to hypothesize? Credit to @vision_ebooks for seeing this before I could rewatch: Loki’s face before he turns around is calculating. He’s TRYING something. Maybe seeing if touching Sylvie &/or saying something emo to her, would spark that “connection” to bring the TVA down.

And along those lines? Sophia and Tom are absolutely not playing this as romance.

Sylvie doesn’t even react with horror when Loki’s pruned, compared to (of course) Loki’s reaction to Mobius being pruned.

They also do not convey romance or sexual tension with ANY of their acting; there is no leaning to kiss, no looking at lips, none of it.

As always, I find myself again in the position of saying “either the writers & actors are ALL really bad at their jobs, or I’m not crazy.”

LAST BUT NOT LEAST: THE CREDITS SONG!

"You can set me any task
I'll do anything you ask
If you'll only say you love me still
When at last our life on earth is through
I will share eternity with you"

Mobius gives Loki tasks.
Loki just joined him in the pruning afterlife.
Y'all.

So, y'know... I just threw a lot of info at you. I'm sorry. But really, to summarize:

-Self-love & outward love are big aspects of what Loki needs to grow.
-There is no #Loki/#Sylvie romance, but rather a self-love meta story bond.
-This is a love story between Loki & #Mobius.

Take from that what you will.

Is it possible I'm wrong? Oh, always. Is it possible everything goes upside down and the consistency we've seen so far implodes? Also always.

I do not write these analyses to give anyone "hope" for any specific sort of outcome.

Do I expect Loki/Mobius to become explicit? Still no, because there is a limit to how hard I will clown about Disney. But as long as by the end Loki/Sylvie doesn't become a romance, & Loki & Mobius are standing side-by-side in some fashion, they've done something remarkable here.

I will say this: were this not Disney, I WOULD be clowning harder probably, for aforementioned "subverting" reasons. But as it is, I am just here to enjoy the vibes.

& a love story is still a love story whether or not there is a kiss or a holding of hands + a happy ending.

Thank you for your time, thank you for your PATIENCE if you waited for me to have a whole day to sit and plan this out, I hope I mostly got it all, feel free to ignore me and ship whatever you want, live your truth, etc.

May #Mobius and #Loki ride a jet ski into the sunset ✨