Thread by @carmella_nicole

1/ TL;DR 🧵 on Brian Warner (professionally known as Marilyn Manson) vs Evan Rachel Wood, Illma Gore (aka Ashley Gore), and the main social media accusers:

2/ Wood’s story has gone from allegations of SA (2016), to SA and DV (2018-2019), to insinuating that “Marilyn Manson is/was abetting a pedoph!le sex trafficking ring and the authorities are investigating” (2021-2022). It’s pretty wild

3/ Maybe Wood was abused, maybe she’s embarrassed about her past, maybe Warner and his Manson persona are equally depraved, maybe it’s all a conspiracy. There are lots of possibilities, so idk if we can conclusively say, “yep, he did all this”

4/ Most people can agree that Wood was probably exploited by Hollywood typecasting as a troubled teen/“Lolita” character. Most people would probably agree that Warner dating women in their late teens/early 20s as a mid/late-30s something man was questionable:

5/ Aside from denying the abuse allegations, Warner has stayed mum on everything save for a recently filed complaint. (More on this later). Wood has been all over social media and filmed an HBO documentary about the allegations

6/ If you look into it, you’ll find Wood’s narrative, “hard evidence,” and credibility are quickly undermined. The credibility of her co-conspirator Illma Gore and their “survivors’ meeting” are also pretty sketchy:

7/ Wood and others have accused Warner of the following since 2016 (list current as of 6/24/2022):

8/ I compared the allegations to John Wayne Gacy’s documented offenses. Gacy met 27/60 offenses on the list (see items in bold). The only thing Warner hasn’t yet been accused of that Gacy did was being gay and bothering a corpse/necrophilia:

9/ Warner has alleged that Wood and Gore (who Wood met circa 2016):

10/ I highly recommend reading Warner’s complaint if only for the fact that within the first few pages his legal team had already called Gore a “grifter:” drive.google.com/file/d/1LloIWM…

11/ Wood showed 8 pieces of “evidence” in her HBO documentary, but there may be issues with established behavior patterns, timeline inconsistencies, credibility, contradictory info, or not actually showing evidence of anything

12/ Exhibit 1. Wood emphasized the age gap between her and Warner. She repeatedly said or insinuated that she was “underage,” “a baby,” or “so young” while dating him. She was 18-22 when they dated, but her cartoon avatar looks like a goth rendition of a Precious Moments cherub:

13/ Aside from actor Jamie Bell (1 year older; 2005-2007, 2011-2014), Wood didn’t really discuss other partners in the HBO doc. She also didn’t identify the bar owner from her alleged SA in 2011 and didn’t identify any other partners as her alleged abuser

14/ Wood and Warner met in August 2006; she was 18, he was 36. They started officially dating in 2007 and were on-again, off-again until Aug. 2010. Before Warner and Bell, Wood allegedly dated Ed Norton (18 years older; 2004) when she was 16

15/ While dating Warner, Wood was linked to: Mickey Rourke (35 years older; 2008), Joseph Gordon-Levitt (6 years older; 2008), Shane West (9 years older; 2009), Alexander Skarsgård (11 years older; 2009-2010). Older side dick is the least of her problems as far as “evidence” goes

16/ In response to a failed 2020 Metal Hammer magazine interview, Warner’s PR team mentioned Wood “dated multiple people around the time she was dating Manson” including Mickey Rourke, her co-star and on-screen dad in 2008’s The Wrestler:

17/ Wood said she (then 21) and Rourke (then 56) “were never together” and denied that Rourke was her assailant. Like other Boomers, Rourke is notoriously oblivious about invading personal space. Whatever the case, their off-screen PDA is a bit much: eonline.com/photos/549/mic…

18/ Exhibit 2. Wood showed a photo of herself and Warner after getting tattoos together. Presumably, this was to support her claims about love bombing, brainwashing, scarification, branding, and coercive control

19/ Wood didn’t give much context for the tattoo of a lightning bolt surrounded by a heart. The lightning bolt resembles, but isn’t explicitly linked to “pseudo-Naz! imagery” from Manson’s “Antichrist Superstar” performances during the 2007-2008 tour highlighted in the HBO doc:

20/ There are multiple old interviews where Wood discussed this tattoo, but didn’t explicitly link it to Warner. She’s pretty consistently said the lightning bolt was for David Bowie: esquire.com/entertainment/…

21/ The only clear link between Warner and Wood’s heart-lightning bolt tatt is that he got a spiral heart tattoo during the same session. Presumably, we’re supposed to tie the hearts to the video for Manson’s 2007 song “Heart-Shaped Glasses.” HSG gets emphasized later in the doc:

22/ The HBO documentary doesn’t note that heart-shaped glasses were one of Wood’s signature looks circa 2007-2010 (paparazzi shot from May 2010):

23/ She has two tattoos (one behind each ear) in homage to her relationship with Warner. The number 15 tattoo is part of a matching set with Warner. She also got a “j” tattoo for ex Jamie Bell who she dated directly before Warner. She doesn’t discuss any of these in the HBO doc:

24/ Exhibit 3. A photo of and scar from a skin carving of “MM” on Wood’s inner thigh. This was self-inflicted, allegedly done after she started dating Warner. She claimed he carved an “E” into himself around the same time. What’s weird is she did “MM,” not “BW” for “Brian Warner”

25/ Exhibit 4. A photo of marks on Wood’s neck. No explanation or context was given for this photo. I have no clue wtf is going on here. The marks could be from anything (alleged abuse, consensual erotic asphyxiation, some other consensual BDSM play, a movie shoot, etc.):

26/ Exhibit 5. A photo of a mark near Wood’s navel. Idk if this is the 12/2010 mark mentioned in dismissed complaint of recruited “victim” Ashley Walters. Wood and Warner broke up in 8/2010. Walters’ complaint was dismissed with prejudice (i.e., can’t refile same claims):

27/ Walters’ full complaint can be read here. Shock value aside, an inexplicably random part of several accusers’ claims is how Warner allegedly demanded the thermostat stay at or below 65°: deadline.com/wp-content/upl…

28/ Exhibit 6. A video clip purportedly showing Wood and Warner in 2008. Wood asks who was texting him, he asks her to clarify (5 times), walks into the room, asks her to clarify again, mutters “answer me, for fuck’s sake, or I’ll k!ll you” under his breath, then walks off

29/ I saw a pro-Manson YouTube account describe Warner’s tone as “joking,” but I disagree with this assessment. He sounded more irritated than anything else, but it definitely wasn’t a “tee hee hee, jk jk” tone

30/ The clip may be legit, but no faces, identifying marks, physical abuse, or evidence of Warner’s alleged violent behavior are shown. The statement is sus, but could easily be read as him getting annoyed at Wood initiating a conversation only to stop answering when he responds

31/ Exhibit 7. Wood read from a bunch of purportedly contemporaneous diary entries. These are self-reports. She didn’t show medical records for any injuries. Obviously, many victims don’t seek medical care for DV/DA injuries, but in her case no med records could be seen as odd

32/ Exhibit 8. Statements from other “victims.” This is one key difference between Wood and Heard. Heard didn’t have anyone reiterating her claims of suffering at the hands of the same alleged abuser. Wood has that, but some of her fellow “victims” have notable credibility issues

33/ One of the Phoenix Act’s goals is extending the statute of limitations when 3 or more victims make claims against the same abuser. At least 4 accusers have filed complaints against Warner since 2018, 3 are tied to The Phoenix Act/“survivors’ meeting” (📸 cred: @bijouxcarys):

34/ Unidentified accuser’s police report filed in May 2018, dismissed in August 2018: tmz.com/2018/08/10/mar…

35/ Esmé Bianco’s pending complaint filed in April 2021: deadline.com/wp-content/upl…

36/ Ashley Walters’ complaint filed in May 2021, dismissed with prejudice (i.e., can’t refile same claims) in May 2022 (📸 cred: @standbyyourmm):*
deadline.com/wp-content/upl…

*Reposted with link to complaint

37/ “Jane Doe” (likely musician Chløë Black) accuser’s dismissed complaint filed in May 2021, refiled in and pending since Sept. 2021: deadline.com/wp-content/upl…

38/ Should be noted that Doe/Black didn’t make claims about Warner having a specific thermostat setting, only that it was “cold.” This makes sense given her claim that she never met Wood; the “temperature in the low 60s” detail seems specific to the “survivors’ meeting”

39/ Ashley Morgan Smithline’s (aka Ashley Lindsay Morgan Smithline/Ashley Lindsay Morgan) pending complaint filed in June 2021: courthousenews.com/wp-content/upl…

40/ An accusation from Ellie Rowsell (alleged Warner filmed an “upskirt” video backstage at a 2018 music festival) probably merits looking into as workplace SH. The problem is she didn’t present any evidence, it happened overseas, and it may be beyond the statute of limitations

41/ Other claims are a combination of vague or unsupported by evidence (Annie J. Abrams, Agata Alexander, Bianca Allaine, Chløë Black, Laney Chantal, Scarlett Kapella, Sarah McNeilly), or aren’t directly related to primary accusers’ allegations (Louise Keay Bell, Charlyne Yi)

42/ Some claims describe incidents as having witnesses, but said witnesses were allegedly incapacitated or intoxicated at the time (Love Bailey)

43/ Some claims may be undermined by credibility issues with the associated accuser (Phoebe Bridgers currently being sued by Chris Nelson for defamatory abuse allegations, Dan Cleary paywalled more detailed statements, Cleary and Sarah McNeilly attended “survivors’ meeting”)

44/ Some claims were made on behalf of 3rd parties (Bianca Allaine, Love Bailey, Laney Chantal, Dan Cleary, Torii Lynn, Brittany Leigh, Saint Sasha, Otep Shamaya), or don’t indicate any physical abuse (Allaine, Saint Sasha). A lot seem to generally conflate “weird” and “illegal”

45/ Some things need explanation, esp. the letter Wood posted on 2/1/2021. It was dated 1/21/2021, purportedly written on CA State Senator Susan Rubio’s letterhead, demanded FBI investigate Warner and contact his accusers. Afaik, Rubio’s team hasn’t confirmed its authenticity:

46/ Enter Warner’s lawsuit about the “coordinated attack.” If you watch the HBO documentary (2/10 don’t recommend based on the tentacle sound f/xs alone), some exchanges during the “survivors’ meeting” were a bit sus. My favorite one was this:

47/ There’s no way to know if Smithline would’ve shared the detail about the “MM” “brand” had Wood not chimed in. Also, if someone carved their stage persona’s initials into your skin, I feel like you wouldn’t need prompting to remember this, but your mileage may vary

48/ Warner might have more evidence on his side, but he doesn’t have a lovable public image. Aside from the truth, freedom of expression or “separate creator from cultural product” are possible defenses for his weirdness. You can’t be abusive, but can be as weird as you want

49/ Wood might get tripped up by how easily she could be classified with Cluster B traits (attention-seeking, delusions of self-importance, exaggeration, overly imaginative, inappropriate seduction, self-victimization, splitting). Her being a decent actress might work against her

50/ Basically, I wanna see more evidence and also wanna see an unedited version of the video Wood showed in the HBO documentary:

@threadreaderapp unroll, please

51/ Scheduled hearings in the never-ending Brian Warner/#MarilynManson legal saga:

52/ Evan Rachel Wood and Illma Gore have each hired counsel, which brings the total number of legal teams to 3. If Warner’s complaint ever goes to trial, the courtroom is gonna be wall to wall attorneys

53/ Read through the Google Drive of docs that just dropped. Most accurate summary of my reaction:

54/ TL;DR for Google Drive docs (excluding Item 1 & 10 clerical logs)…

Item 2. Ex Parte Application, Item 11. Motion for Order to Conduct Discovery & Item 13. Opposition of Wood to Ex Parte Application, Declaration of Wood’s attorney Michael J. Kump:

55/ Item 3. Declaration of Warner’s ex Emese Balog & Item 4. Declaration of Warner’s ex Paula (Pola) Weiss:

56/ Item 5. Declaration of Jayden Elworthy & Item 6. Declaration of Dominic Phoenix Scaia of @/marilynmansonisinnocent_ on Instagram:

57/ Item 7. Declaration of Warner’s attorney Blair Berk:

58/ Item 8. Declaration of Warner’s attorney Howard E. King (which includes Item 8a. Declaration of Wood in TN Custody Filing & Item 8b. Declaration of Wood’s ex Jamie Bell in TN Custody Filing):

59/ Item 9. Declaration of Gore’s identical twin sister Bryton Gore:

60/ Item 12. Declaration of Brian Warner (professionally known as #MarilynManson):

61/ All docs are available here (hat tip @colonelkurtz99 for the tea): drive.google.com/drive/u/0/mobi…

62/ Warner is gonna have to lean in on his above-average body count. Also, no statements about whether he was pro- or anti-condom in the docs. If he’s not “conventionally attractive,” how did he rack up 20+ confirmed partners? Money, power, rock icon status, nice personality?:

63/ Assuming arguendo for Wood’s (mostly irrelevant) claim that Warner was anti-condom, how did he avoid getting every STI in existence during 2 decades of 20+ partners? Afaik, none of his long-term partners have mentioned getting or treating STIs while monogamously dating him:

64/ If I were Wood or Gore, I’d also avoid deposition like the plague and try to prevent more discovery. Most of the declarations undermine their credibility or credibility of potential witnesses against Warner (Walters, Smithline)

65/ I have to circle back to this point because I am aghast. When Warner and Dita von Teese divorced in 2007, his infidelity was cited as at least one reason for their split

66/ Let’s assume some of Warner’s infidelity was accomplished while touring and included at least 1 new partner for every 10th concert (1,605 total concerts between 1990-2020). That’s a conservative estimate of 160 partners over 30 years: concertarchives.org/bands/marilyn-…

67/ Wood showed up halfway through in 8/2006. At 5.33 new partners per year of touring, that’s approx. 90 partners by the time Wood even showed up (84 touring + 6 dating). Wood and Warner dated for 4 years, which would bring the total to 113 (90 + another 21 touring + 2 dating)

68/ So a conservative estimate of 84-113 partners, refused to wear condoms with her (according to Wood), but never a case of the clap? Um, I have questions:

69/ Did some digging. #MarilynManson made comments in 2009 about making “art” with used condoms. Afaik, Warner hasn’t specifically commented on his personal prophylactic preferences. So, *did he own condoms at the time and decide not to use as directed?: spin.com/2009/06/qa-mar…

70/ I don’t have an answer to that last question. But, I will be adding “Did #MarilynManson ever use condoms correctly?” to my list of Thought Experiments to Complete Every Day at 3AM

@UnrollHelper

71/ Team Warner has set up a Prisoner’s Dilemma for Wood and Gore. I wonder how long they’ll use “don’t snitch” as a partnered strategy before someone chooses the self-interested strategy of snitching or a mix of silence and snitching. Seems like pressure is on Gore to flip 🤔:

72/ Reasonable (speculative!) explanations for Wood’s actions? Willful conduct and malice, undue influence/duress, alternative means to “prosecute” alleged abuse, miscellaneous psychological condition or state of mind? Unfortunately, she needs to be deposed for us to answer this:

73/ Wood’s options? Plead the 5th, double down, “imagined thing is real in its consequences,” claim “reasonable” fear for safety/PTSD, or blame Gore? Claiming PTSD could open her up to psych evals which might rule out or undermine PTSD as an explanation

74/ Wood blaming Gore or claiming Gore unduly influenced her could undermine her abuse claims, especially given they started around the time she met Gore circa 2016. Also, not a great look throwing a co-defendant under the bus

75/ I can’t stress how absolutely f*cked Gore sounds based on anti-SLAPP discovery alone. Reasonable (speculative!) explanations for her actions? Willful conduct, 1A (aRt), undue influence/duress? Best defenses? Plead the 5th, blame Wood, claim Wood misled her about everything?:

76/ This just in on the #MarilynManson case. After much hubbub over anti-SLAPP motions and whether ERW and Illma Gore will or won’t actually sit for depositions, LASD submitted an investigation file to LA DA Gascón:

77/ TL;DR: Warner wants Bianco’s claims RE: negative career impact (state claim) dismissed from her federal case:

78/ Also, a Bianco v. Warner judge granted (with limitations) Warner’s team subpoena compliance from and deposition of his ex-personal assistant Ashley Walters. Walters is allegedly the source of the login info used by Gore to hack into/impersonate Warner’s digital accounts:

79/ Looks like the Walter’s depo in Bianco v. Warner will happen before the Dec. 1st Anti-SLAPP motions in Warner v. Wood & Gore, BUT the depo may be inadmissible/not completed in time for the latter lawsuit:

80/ TL;DR on Team Wood anti-SLAPP motion:
1. “It’s protected activity”/a “matter of public interest”
2. “You shouldn’t even have that” (RE: fake FBI letter)
3. “I don’t know her” (RE: charges against Illma Gore)
4. “Here’s the plot of the HBO doc:”
drive.google.com/file/d/1DhJTG5…

81/ TL;DR on Team Gore anti-SLAPP motion:
1. “It’s 1A-protected speech”
2. “She was helping LEOs”
3. “Here are some articles about stuff”

Warner provided evidence of Gore impersonating a federal agent and her response is “I wuz doin’ an activism” lol: drive.google.com/file/d/1xyx2ST…