Thread by @felipepepe

Reading some takes on the recent "JRPG" discourse, I wanted to talk a bit about about "Western RPG x Japanese RPG" history.

Mainly about how they evolved, each going thought many crises, "influence gaps" and learning from the other. It will be long, and take a while...🧵

Ok, so D&D comes out in 1974 in the US, people immediately start making adaptations of it for mainframe computers.

These were purely about exploring dungeons & killing monsters, but quickly grew more complex, supporting multiplayer, rankings, secrets and first-person combat:

The first home computer RPGs in the late 70s bring many new ideas & influences:
-BAM & Rogue pioneer roguelikes
-Wilderness Campaign focus on a small army of heroes
-Temple of Apshai draws from Choose-Your-Own-Adventures books
-Eamon mixes text-adventures + RPGs + custom modules

Of course, the big duo that stands out are Wizardry & Ultima:
- Wizardry takes the formula of mainframe RPGs and expands it, offering a full party
- Ultima lets your hero explore a large open world, collecting quests, exploring dungeons, travelling in time and going to space lol

The story goes that in 1986 Japanese devs combined Wizardry + Ultima to make Dragon Quest and "create JRPGs".

But they had been making Japanese RPGs since 1982 - some inspired by Western RPGs, others entirely novel, pioneering ideas like mini-maps, Action-RPGs & tactical combat!

And they didn't die when Dragon Quest became a mega-hit in 1986. On the contrary. Some of the other biggest Japanese RPGs of the 80s are titles like Ys and Sorcerian, that aren't even turn-based and play nothing like DQ or FF. Oddly, they never had any influence in the West.

These two some of many "influence gaps" in RPGs across the hemispheres.

Back in the US, Dungeon Master created real-time dungeon crawlers (aka blobbers), Starflight pioneered "space opera" RPGs, and Nethack popularized roguelikes.

None of those left a big mark in Japan either.

By the mid-late 80s, Ultima IV and Wasteland pushed storytelling forward by offering morality - Ultima had good/evil; Wasteland had grey zones, with no easy solutions.

However, this wasn't widely adopted. Stories still sucked. Most WRPGs were just generic fantasy-esque games.

Japanese games, on the other hand, were taking inspiration from anime & manga to deliver more complex stories, with interesting settings, fun characters and plot twists.

And the Japanese PCs & consoles could render amazing scenes. These are all JRPGs from the 80s:

Critics like CGW's Scorpia were already complaining how WRPGs were mostly stats-heavy games about fighting -"kill the foozle", as she puts it.

And in 1990 designer Roe Adams III noted that WRPGs ported to consoles "were not perceived to be as exciting as the Japanese imports"...

Before continuing to the 90s, a side-note: by the mid 80s, Europe begins making RPGs too, mainly Ultima & Dungeon Master clones in Germany & Eastern Europe.

France, however, did their own thing. Mixing comics, manga & cinema influences, they had a unique & short-lived RPG scene:

Ok, time for the early 90s!

A golden era of games, thanks in part to the new 16-bit consoles and many tech advances, like VGA graphics, CD-ROMs and the dominance of IBM PCs.

As we will see, it's also a time of many parallel genres and evolutions-and not just in the US & Japan.

At first, Western RPGs pulled ahead. Many classic RPG series reach their peak around 1992

Games like Ultima VII, Ultima Underworld, Wizardry VII, Darklands, Betrayal at Krondor and Dark Sun further experiment with open-worlds, 3D graphics, reactivity, dialog choices & companions

While all-time classics that still influence modern RPGs like Divinity: Original Sin and Mount & Blade, these WRPGs barely had an influence in Japan (yes, I know King's Field exist).

Japanese devs were now following their own paths and also making their own all-time classics:

We usually focus on big console names like Dragon Quest & Final Fantasy, but the early 90s had all sorts of Japanese RPGs.

Classic TB stuff, but also action-RPGs, raising sims, tactical RPGs, dungeon crawlers, dating sims, etc... on Japanese computers, IBM PCs and even Macintosh

And it wasn't just Japan that was booming, by mid-90s Korean and Chinese devs entered a golden era as well.

Games like Chinese Paladin, Dance of the Maple Leaves, Heroes of Jin Yong & The War of Genesis II are all-time classics, with complex stories far beyond WRPGs at the time:

On a 1x1 fight, Japan had an advantage in terms of variety, accessibility, presentation and storytelling.
But it wasn't a 1x1 fight.
They were also going against titans: Doom, Mortal Kombat, Myst, Warcraft, Civilization, Alone in the Dark, Super Mario Bros 3, Sonic, NBA Jam, etc

So WRPGs had an identity crisis. They weren't necessarily selling less than before, but they were selling way less than their rivals. Publishers hate that.

Some tried to adapt: Ultima 8 was more action-y, even adding platforming. Others tried FPS
combat or Zelda-like controls:

Didn't really work. Old-school fans felt betrayed, others were too busy playing other, better games to even note these titles

By 1996, Western RPGs were dying. CGW couldn't even find 10 of them for their Top 100 games list (that's so sad). At least single-player RPGs, that is...

All this time, online RPGs have been evolving in the background. From mainframe RPGs to MUD, Island of Kesmai, Habitat, LotRD, etc... I wrote long article on this already, so I won't go into much detail: felipepepe.medium.com/roblox-is-a-mu…

What matters is MUDs & MMOs went global in the 90s.

Ultima Online & EverQuest are the big Western titles that helped define the genre, but IMHO they're over-represented. Outside the hardcore US gamer bubble, you probably were more impacted by titles like Lineage, Tibia, Runescape, Fantasy Westward Journey and many browser RPGs

I'll go back to this in a while.

For now, we have Diablo & Baldur's Gate "saving" WRPGs in the second half of the 90s.
Diablo made RPGs fast & accessible - it even had a PS1 port!
BG did the same combining RPG + RTS + actually interesting NPCs (FINALLY)
Both sold over 2 million!

They led a new wave of great WRPGs: Fallout, Diablo II, Gothic, PS:T, Deus Ex, JA2, M&M 6 & 7, Wizardry 8, System Shock 2, etc...

Japan, China and Korea too were absolutely killing it: FF7-10, Xenogears, FFT, Breath of Fire IV, Suikoden II, Rhapsody of Zephyr, Wulin Heroes...

But it's important to mention: a lot of the WRPGs devs at the time were openly huge JRPG fans.

A lot of WRPGs of this era mimic Final Fantasy, be it on aesthetics, combat or the overall "vibe".

Never forget: Planescape: Torment thanks Final Fantasy VII & VIII on its credits :3

Even more important is to remember it was a short-lived era. Besides Diablo & Baldur's Gate, most WRPGs didn't sell much.

So publishers pushed for what (might) sell more. Across the globe, RPG devs had to make Diablo clones. Or MMOs. Or go to consoles.

This column is from 2002:

And while Japan was fine, the rest of Asia also suffered. Increased competition & production costs, piracy and the push towards MMOs killed their RPG scenes.

China & Korea would produce the world's biggest MMORPGs - far bigger than WoW - but most RPGs would stay dead for years.

So WRPGs devs like BioWare and Bethesda began moving to consoles for the first time - Microsoft really wanted them onboard their new Xbox.

What follows is a very awkward phase, as PC devs try to make PC RPGs fit consoles - or mimic JRPGs.

I.e., Sudeki, the British FPS/JRPG:

A more popular example is Morrowind, a PC-first RPG from Bethesda being adapted to the Xbox

Text was too long & small to read on a TV, the UI was horrible for controllers, and they couldn't do expansions on the Xbox. People who got the base game had to buy the GOTY Edition again

Now, we FINALLY reach the destination of our story: mid/late 2000s. PS3/Xbox 360/GC era.

For some, the era of the biggest AAA titles - Assassin's Creed, God of War, Call of Duty, BioShock, Batman: Arkham, Gears of War, etc. For others, one of the darkest times of the industry.

The jump to HD graphics meant a huge increase in costs. AAA games became unattainable - bellow a 2013 quote by EA's Richard Hilleman

In Japan, few could do AAA. They either fused (Square Enix, KOEI Tecmo, Bandai Namco), went to handhelds or catered to niches (i.e., Idea Factory)

Meanwhile, giants like EA, Ubisoft & Activision dominated the Western industry. They devoured all mid-sized studios. They controlled distribution. They had resources for development AND marketing. And now they knew how to make RPGs on consoles.

Thus, the BioWare & Bethesda era.

They were the RPG standard. The ONLY standard.
-JRPGs they loved 5 years ago?
Childish games.
-European RPGs that kept the flame alive?
Eurojank.
-Korean & Chinese MMOs far bigger than WoW? Ignored.
-Browser & Flash games?
Free to play garbage.
-2D or Turn-based RPG?
Outdated.

Thankfully, we're past that now. So one closing thought:

RPGs across the globe continuously shared traits and influences, and went through multiple, different crises. All that hate from 15 years ago was the exception, not the rule.

Let's never repeat that. Tks for reading!❤️

Hate that I can't edit this so here's a short errata:
- Roguelikes in Japan led to the Mystery Dungeon series, definitely a relevant influence.
- On the Doom tweet I meant "JRPGs had an advantage"
- Obviously, is PS3/Xbox 360/Wii
Also, here's a cute Yuna sticker from @Chimfucius