Thread by @innercitypress

OK - Carroll v. Trump trial resuming now; next plaintiff's witness taking the stand. Inner City Press may have videoed witness' entry on Worth Street, is covering the case matthewrussellleeicp.substack.com/p/carroll-off-… & patreon.com/posts/filing-t… and will live tweet, thread below

Jury entering!
Judge Kaplan: Call your next witness. It's Lisa Birnbach.
Carroll's counsel: How long has you known Ms Carroll?
Birnbach: 32 or 33 years
Counsel: Did Ms Carroll tell you about an encounter at Bergdorf's?
Birnbach: Yes. In the Spring of 1996, I think

Counsel: Have you published?
Birnbach: Yes. In the New Yorker, Parade, Spy, TV Guide...
Counsel: What was Spy?
Birnbach: A satirical magazine.
Counsel: Books?
Birnback: 22. About the way we live. Not political.

Birnbach: I was the host on a VH1 show I'm sure no one remembers, The Whole Enchilada.
Counsel: How did you meet Ms. Carroll?
Birnbach: We had a couple of dinners with another couple. I had admired her stylish reporting in Outside Magazine.

Counsel: What was her job?
Birnbach: Ask E. Jean and a TV show by the same name. I was on it once... I met Donald Trump at a birthday party. He invited me to write a story about Mar-a-Lago, he was turning it into a club. He called me about once a month

Counsel: Did you write it?
Birnbach: Yes. I traveled to Mar-a-Lago on Mr. Trump's private plane in late January 1996. I stayed two nights. I had a tape recorder and recorded a stream of consciousness of Mr. Trump as he gave me a tour. It was "Mi Casa Tu Casa"

Counsel: Did Donald Trump call you after the article came out?
Birnbach: No, but one of his assistants did.
Counsel: What were you doing when Ms. Carroll called you about being assaulted?
Birnbach: I was feeding my children 6 and 3. It was between 6 and 7 pm.

Counsel: What did Ms. Carroll say?
Birnbach: She said, Lisa you're not going to believe what happened. She was breathing hard. It sounded like she had a surge of adrenaline... She told me her story, how they ended up in the lingerie department. I was surprised.

Counsel: What did you think?
Birnbach: That is was kinda nutty. She told me she told Donald Trump, why don't you try it on? They were in the dressing room & he slammed her against the wall and he slammed his arm and shoulder against her and pulled down her tights

Birnbach: Then he penetrated her.
Counsel: How?
Birnbach: With his p*nis. I knew my children didn't know the word but I ducked out and told her, E. Jean, he raped you. I'll take you to the police. She said she didn't want to go. We had a fight. She said, We fought

Counsel: How long was the call?
Birnbach: Four minutes or so. Then I reheated my kids nuggets. She didn't want to tell anyone else. I honored it.
Counsel: Did anyone else you knew tell you they were assaulted?
Trump's lawyer: Objection!
Judge Kaplan: I'll allow it

Birnbach: Yes, other woman friends in the mid 90s told me they had been assaulted by men.
Counsel: Did you and Ms Carroll ever discuss the assault again?
Birnbach: Not under 2019.
Counsel: Did she discuss any romantic relationships with you?
Birnbach: No.

Counsel: Have you donated money to political candidates?
Birnbach: Yes. Hillary Clinton.
Counsel: Where were you on election night 2016?
Birnbach: My apartment on West End Avenue with 25 firends including E. Jean.
Counsel: Any Trump supporters there?
Birnbach: No

Counsel: Did you have dinner with Ms Carroll & Carol Martin?
Birnbach: Yes, at Carmine's restaurant on Broadway. She gave us blue envelopes with ribbons on them. She said, Read it but don't show anyone. I never read it - I felt it might create responsibilities

Birnbach: I wrote a New Yorker magazine Talk of the Town piece about E. Jean's Hideous Men of New York tour. She didn't mention Donald Trump.
Counsel: What was the title?
Birnbach: It had the name Hideous Men on it.
[Here it is: newyorker.com/magazine/2019/…

[An aside - before ouster from United Nations for exposing corruption of current Secretary General @antonioguterres, this New Yorker Talk of the Town: newyorker.com/magazine/2011/…

Counsel: When you saw the excerpt, did it match what Ms. Carroll told you in 1996?
Birnbach: It did. I called her and told her what a good piece it was. I said, Tell the fact checkers I don't want to be named. Trump was president with a following that was rude

Counsel: Let me know you Exhibit AJ. Was this text sent before or after the excerpt?
Birnbach: After. Megan is Megan Twohey, the reporter. E. Jean had sent me each chapter as an email.
Counsel: From where?
Birnbach: She was in intensive care.

Counsel: Did they come a time you agreed to be publicly identified as the friend she told?
Birnbach: Yes. After E. Jean invited Carol and I to a lunch with New York Times reporters who wanted to write about what happened to her. I was named in the NY Times

Birnbach: Megan Twhohey interviewed me and Ms. Martin in my apartment. They put it on The Daily... I was very active on Twitter at that time. I received a lot of anti-Semitic attacks after the interview.

Counsel: What did you think of the book?
Birnbach: I wasn't into the mix of travelogue and hard stories.
[Note: the book does repeatedly mention and praise Amy's Burritos in motel microwaves with commentary about p*rn watchers in the desk chairs]

Counsel: Are you mentioned in the book?
Birnbach: I'm one of the [three] people she dedicated the book to. And our wedding shopping trip for Lauren, E. Jean's niece, to Bergdorf's.
Counsel: Did you think of the assault?
Birnbach: No. It was about Lauren.

Counsel: Did you do media about Donald Trump's assault?
Birnbach: Yes. NPR, then CNN, Anderson Cooper.
Counsel: Did you write about this on Facebook?
Birnbach: I haven't been on Facebook for some years. But I probably did. I had a podcast too, 5 Things

Counsel: Did you discuss Donald Trump on your podcast, as a narcissistic psychopath and Vladimir Putin's agent?
Birnbach: Probably yes. My guests were not fans of Donald Trump either.

Birnbach: I said those things right after the January 6 insurrection at the Capitol --
Trump's lawyer: Objection!
Judge Kaplan: Overruled.
Counsel: Did you say, The cult of Trump will decline and he will be dealing with a lot of lawsuits?
Birnbach: Yes.

Birnbach: The guy had done a lot of bad things. I was hoping he would have to account for them
Counsel: When did your podcast end?
Birnbach: When Joe Biden was president.
Counsel: Why are you testifying here?
Trump's lawyer: Objection. Irrelevant.
Judge: Overruled

Birnbach: I'm here because my friend is telling the truth.
Counsel: No further questions.
Judge Kaplan: 15 minute break.
Note: Thread will continue with cross. For now, over to the Ed Sheeran / Let's Get It On trial also @sdnylive

They're back.
Judge Kaplan: Cross-examination.
Trump's lawyer: You only contribute to Democrats?
Birnbach: I think I may once have contributed to a pro-choice Republican.
Trump's lawyer: Let's go to the deposition...

Trump's lawyer (reading from the deposition) You said only to Democrats. You are not a fan of Donald Trump?
Birnbach: Right
Trump's lawyer: On Facebook, you said, Does it get worse than Trump, this slimeball? I've never felt the hatred I feel toward this person

Trump's lawyer: On your podcast with Kurt Anderson, you said you think about Trump every hour and "when I sleep"
[Birnbach laughs]
Trump's lawyer: Did you say that?
Birnbach: I did.
Trump's lawyer: And with Alexandra Pelosi, you said, Trump is like herpes

Trump's lawyer: It's evidence of bias, your Honor.
Judge Kaplan: You don't say. But it's a compound question.
Trump's lawyer: OK, with Chris Wipple, you said, the cult of Trump will decline, he'll deal with lawsuits. They think he'll run for president. That's crap

Trump's lawyer: And you said, He's demented and a Russian agent. He's bad. Did you make that statement?
Birnbach: Yes.
Trump's lawyer: In your resident with Ms. Carroll president --
Judge Kaplan: You've promoted her.
Trump's lawyer: I meant, Present

Trump's lawyer: Let's go to the deposition, You were asked if you forgot the year --
Carroll's lawyer: Objection!

Judge Kaplan: Sustained. No foundation laid. Here's what the question was, page 45: Is it your testimony that it never came up in your mind. Answer: It did not come up.
Trump's lawyer: That's why I brought it up.
Judge Kaplan: That's why I sustain the objection

Trump's lawyer: You do remember it now, do you not?
Judge Kaplan: Remember what?
Trump's lawyer: The incident at Bergdorf's.
Birnbach: It came back to me.
Trump's lawyer: What is this? Defendant's DI
Birnbach: An email from Ms. Carroll about our event at The Wing

Trump's lawyer: You wrote, the main thing is to SELL BOOKS, yes?
Birnbach: She was on a book tour. That's how writers make money.
Trump's lawyer: Thank you. That's all I have.
Judge Kaplan: Re-direct.
Carroll's lawyer: Mr Brandt just asked you about the book tour

Birnbach: Due to security concerns, she could not do a book tour.
Carroll's lawyer: Why?
Birnbach: Followers of Mr. Trump would --
Brandt: Objection!
Judge Kaplan: Overruled.
Birnbach: They were threatening her

Carroll's lawyer: In 1996, was Donald Trump known as a political figure?
Birnbach: Not at all.
Carroll's lawyer: In this message you said, Megan doesn't like Sardi's. What was this lunch?
Birnbach: The interview with the NYT reporter.

Birnbach: In 1996 Trump was not political, he was a real estate guy who harassed a lot of women
Brandt: Move to strike. 403
Judge Kaplan: Disregard the part after "a real estate guy."
Carroll's lawyer: Would you lie to stop Trump from being president?
Birnbach: No

Judge Kaplan: Re-cross.
Brandt: In 2019 he was a political figure, the president, right?
Birnbach: Yes.
Brandt: Nothing further.
Judge Kaplan: Next witness.
Carroll's lawyer Ferrara: Plaintiff calls Jessica Leeds.

Ferrara: What was your job?
Leeds: A stock broker at 20 Broad near Wall St
Ferrara: Where did you meet Donald Trump?
Leeds: On a plane in 1979 or 1978. From Dallas or Atlanta. It was midday. I was 37.
[Photo of Leeds with short hair. She: then my hair was long]

Leeds: I was invited up to the first class cabin. I was the only woman there. Donald Trump introduced himself.
Ferrara: Did you know of him?
Leeds: No. I was living in Connecticut. They served a very nice meal, as Braniff was known for.

Leeds: Donald Trump grabbed me and groped me. It was like he had forty zillion hands. He put his hand up my skirt. That's gave me a jolt. I wiggled out and stormed back to coach.
Ferrara: Did anyone say anything?
Leeds: The guy on the aisle, his eyes were saucers

Ferrara: Have you given interviews about this? And saying it took long?
Leeds: I told Anderson Cooper it was fifteen minutes. But it was seconds.
Ferrara: On plane, did you tell anyone.
Leeds: No. It never occurred to me.

Leeds: It was Anderson Cooper who asked Trump the question during the debate with Hillary... So I agreed to be on his show. I had written a letter to the NYT and Megan Twohey called me, said she'd said a reporter over. He came over, they brought a photographer

Leeds: I don't know if you've ever had the experience of picking up a newspaper and seeing your face on the front page. Wow. I was amazed.
Ferrara: What's this?
Leeds: The debate where Anderson Cooper asked him if he had harassed a woman.

Ferrara: Plaintiff's offer it as an exhibit.
Tacopina: Objection.
Ferrara: Let's look at the transcript. It's only 2 minutes 27 seconds.
Judge Kaplan: OK.
Tacopina: We don't object, if only this segment.
[Video of Cooper asking about Access Hollywood tape]

Trump (in Cooper interview) This was locker room talk. We have a world of ISIS chopping of heads, drowning people in steel cages. I will knock the hell out of ISIS
Anderson Cooper: Are you saying what you said on the bus 11 years ago, you never did that?
Trump: No

Back in court: Ferrara: Ms. Leeds, did you watch the debate?
Leeds: Yes. I was furious. What was done to me... There was foreign press, even from Japan and France. A couple more appearances on CNN & MSNBC.
Ferrara: What was the response?
Leeds: I don't do Facebook

Leeds: People say, Thank you.
Ferrara: When did the NYT run your story?
Leeds: October 2016. I heard he said he would never attack me. But he was looking at a 76 year old woman, not that 37 year old I was.
Judge Kaplan: Lunch break till 2 pm.
Thread will continue

OK - they are back.
Tacopina: Your Honor, there's something we need to speak with you about. Can we have a sidebar?
Judge Kaplan: Jurors, as you were walking in, the lawyers told me they need to have a discussion. Please bear with us.

[Sidebar is over.] Judge Kaplan: Proceed.
Carroll's lawyer Ferrara: Ms Leeds, what is this?
Leeds: It's the Trump rally at which he made his comments --
Ferrara: I asked a bad question, I apologize. Just, do you recognize the CD?
Leeds: It has my initials on it.

Ferrara: It's Exhibit 31 and 31-T
Judge Kaplan: They are received.
[On screen, CSPAN, Trump saying: "They come up with people who say, I was with Donald Trump on an airplane in 1980. Believe me, she would not be my first choice."]
Leeds: I was sure it was me.

Ferrara: Do you consider yourself political active?
Leeds: Yes. I vote in every election, whether I know anything or not.
Ferrara: Are you in a party?
Leeds: I am a Democrat. I contributed to Raphael Warnock and Stacey Abrams and whoever ran against Susan Collins

Ferrara: Have you spoken with Ms. Carroll?
Leeds: She interviewed me by Zoom. She's an acquaintance, not a friend.
Ferrara: Did you ever speak with Donald Trump again?
Leeds: In 1981 at a fundraiser. I had a nice dress. Trump and Ivana, pregnant, came up

Leeds: Trump said, I remember you, you're that c*nt from the airplane. It was like cold water over me. He walked away and I went home.
Ferrara: Nothing further.
Judge Kaplan: Cross examination.
Tacopina: You didn't tell anyone for year, but you're political

Tacopina: You knew Donald Trump was talking about running but you didn't say anything?
Leeds: Correct.
Tacopina: Then when he ran, you talked about it to your book club?
Leeds: Yes.
Tacopina: During the debate you said, What an as*hole, and jumped up and down?

Tacopina: You did an interview with the NYT and said you hoped your story would influence the election against Donald Trump?
Leeds: Correct.
Tacopina: You did any interview with NPR, Audie Cornish?
Leeds: Yes.

Tacopina: And you did an interview with Democracy Now, Amy Goodwin? [sic - it's Goodman, like Bergdorf]
Leeds: Yes.
Tacopina: You don't want to see Donald Trump regain the presidency?
Leeds: I don't.

Tacopina: Can you give us an exact date?
Leeds: No, I cannot.
Tacopina: You don't remember where you were flying in from?
Leeds: I do not.
Tacopina: It's your story a man introduced himself to you as being Donald Trump.
Leeds: He was some random guy on a plane

Tacopina: You told Anderson Cooper the tussle lasted 15 minutes?
Leeds: Yes
Tacopina: Your story is that a passenger saw it?
Leeds: Yes
Tacopina: When you say he touched your knee-
Judge Kaplan: Sustained. The word knee is only from you
Tacopina: OK, up the skirt

Tacopina: You didn't say anything, when you got back to your seat?
Leeds: No.
Tacopina: You'd never heard of him, but you remembered the name for all these years?
Leeds: Yes.
Tacopina: And at the gala, you say Donald Trump next to his wife said c*nt to you?
Yes.

Tacopina: You say Donald Trump remembered you, despite shorter hair, different clothes-
Carroll's lawyer: Objection!
Judge Kaplan: Sustained.
Tacopina: You did an interview with Democracy Now?
Leeds: I went to their studio.
Tacopina: You said, you remember details

Tacopina: You told Anderson Cooper it was in 1979.
Leeds: Yes.
Tacopina: You told Ms. Carroll it was 1980 or 1979?
Leeds: Yes.
Tacopina: You can't name one witness to corroborate?
Leeds: No.
Judge Kaplan: Let's move on.

Tacopina: Nothing further your Honor.
Judge Kaplan: Re-direct.
Ferrara: You remember every detail?
Leeds: Yes I do.
Ferrara: Why not tell your bosses?
Leeds: My boss would say, too bad, how about lunch? It was a good job.

Ferrara: Why did you call it a pass?
Leeds: It's easier to think of it that way.
Ferrara: To be clear, do you now consider it a pass?
Tacopina: Objection! Leading!
Judge Kaplan: Overruled.
Leeds: No, it was not a pass.

Ferrara: Do you think you brought on what he did?
Leeds: No. I don't know what he perceived. I think he was just bored.
Ferrara: Nothing further.
Judge Kaplan: Mr. Tacopina?
Tacopina: No re-cross.
Judge Kaplan: Next witness.
It's Robert Solerno.

Carroll's lawyer Crowley: Are you retired?
Solerno: Yes.
Crowley: Where were you in the mid 90s?
Solerno: Bergdorf Goodman.
Crowley: How many floors did it have then?
Solerno: 10, 8 accessible by escalator to the public

Crowley: How big were the fitting rooms?
Solerno: Large. On the fourth floor, they had fax machines. Jackie Kennedy used to come and do business there.
Crowley: Were the escalators open or walled off?
Solerno: Walled off, structural walls

Crowley: You saw Donald Trump in the store?
Solerno: Once or twice.
Crowley: No further questions.
Judge Kaplan: Let's take our afternoon break. 15 minutes.
Note: now rushing other cases - will return here when they do. Thread will continue

OK, now they're back.
Trump's lawyer: You say you saw Donald Trump in the women's wear section of Bergdorf Goodman? Is there a separate-
Judge Kaplan: Sustained as to form. Strike it
Trump's lawyer: Where did you see Donald Trump in the mid 90s?
Solerno: 5th floor

Trump's lawyer Chad Seigel: Bergdorf's prided itself on providing attentive customer service?
Solerno: That's correct.
Seigel: Why were sales associated called personal shoppers?
Carroll's lawyer: Objection.
Judge Kaplan: Sustained. This is all repetition.

Seigel: Do you have any idea how many staff worked there on a Thursday night?
Judge Kaplan: Does he have any idea? Is that where we are?
Seigel: Were you responsible for security?
Solerno: Yes.

Seigel: Did the topic of shoplifting ever come up?
Carroll's lawyer: Objection.
Judge Kaplan: Sustained.
Seigel: Any measure to ensure clients wouldn't steal merchandise?
Carroll's lawyer: Objection.
Judge Kaplan: Sustained.

Trump's lawyer Seigel: There were cameras on the 1st floor?
Solerno: Yes.
Seigel: Back in the day, the VHS tapes were taped over?
Carroll's lawyer: Objection.
Judge Kaplan: Basis?
Carroll's lawyer: "Back in the day"
Judge Kaplan: Sustained.
Seigel: Nothing further

Judge Kaplan: Next witness.
It's Dr Leslie Lebowitz, clinical psychologist.
Carroll's counsel: Do you have a specialization?
Lebowitz: Trauma.
Carroll's counsel: We're going talk a lot about that today and probably tomorrow

Dr. Lebowitz: I worked on the issue of sexual abuse in the military.
Carroll's counsel: How many times have you been engaged to work on a case and then withdrawn?
Lebowitz: Five or six. Some were prosecutions for rape but I did not feel confident in it

Lebowitz: In another, a murder case, they'd thought trauma might explain it but I thought there could be another explanation, personality disorder.
Carroll's counsel: In this case, were you asked to provide an expert opinion for E. Jean Carroll?
Lebowitz: Yes.

Lebowitz: She has suffered from painful memories. A diminishment in how she thought about herself. Avoidance symptom, curtailing her romantic intimate life.
Carroll's lawyer: We're going to talk much more about that.

Jury leaves for day.
Carroll's lawyer: We will rest Thursday midday.
Judge Kaplan: Mr. Tacopina, will Mr. Trump becoming?
Tacopina: No.
Judge Kaplan: It's his call.
Tacopina: Ms. Carroll's sister, what's the point of her testimony? I'm just teeing it up.

Judge Kaplan: I'll do the charging conference either Friday or Monday, I'll let you know.
Judge leaves.
Story later - and booklet at the end, right after verdict...