Thread by @LottieHistory

MASSIVE fawning TRA Adam Buxton speaks to Helen Lewis this week, and admits him saying women should be kind in the gender ID debate (i.e the debate over how to define women and what rights they should have) is offensive to some (doesn't admit he's wrong to do it tho). In the

podcast Helen says the culture is shifting, there used to be people setting out to attack views and then make sure that person is always labelled as transphobic or whatever. She's on Twitter less though 😂 Cultural criticism in the press was reduced to why everything is

problematic, mostly because these articles were easy to write and it was an easy way for new writers to get published. Adam says online discussions were always people thinking the absolute worse of each other (even though he thinks the worst of women challenging his beloved

gender identity ideology, and likes to be divisive and bring up ways to slag off @glinner and @jk_rowling in podcasts). Helen says people who gravitate towards social justice on social media are doing so because then people can't challenge their addiction to it. Adam brings

up @jk_rowling's original women and menstruation tweet that kicked off the backlash. Helen says she was a veteran of trans issues at this point. She says she prided herself on being on the right side of the gay marriage debate and that being trans was a straightforward civil

rights issue. Adam says in the US there's people saying trans shouldn't even be a concept and all access to places that will help transition should be banned (sigh, do you mean women's spaces and sports, Adam?). Helen agrees the rhetoric has become that trans = degeneracy. Then

Helen says Maria Miller drew her to real issues around trans and self ID. That's when she started to hear from feminist groups. She said she got cancelled from a literary festival, lost professional opportunities. Was told on @BBCWomansHour a Stonewall rep wouldn't be in the

same room as her for a show. Adam tells her she's on a website for the biggest transphobes in the world (wat). He says "but you're not trying to get rid of trans people like some of the fundamental gender critical activists are." Helen says there's a fringe of people who want

to repeal the GRA but that's not her. She's more interested in medicalising children, women's spaces like rape shelters and prisons, and women's sports. Adam IGNORES these good points and goes on to talk about this transphobe website again. Helen mentions @kittypurrzog's article

about lesbians increasingly identifying as trans, and @jessesingal writing about children saying they're trans (which has come up in the Cass Report). These were framed as transphobic pieces, but now US press has become more nuanced on these issues. Helen says a lot of women

feel burned by men they thought respected them, but didn't listen to them on this issue. Adam says remind us what the Cass Report is. Helen explains it well, and that most 'trans' children become non-transitioned gay and lesbian teens, but medicalising them denied them that.

Helen says this report was not anti-trans but was framed as such. Adam goes back to the men not listening point (bothering you, Adam? 😂). Helen says most men are reluctant to get involved in feminism and be mansplainers, but also gender critical women were saying cruel things

about men in dresses (does she mean men are therefore justified in saying shut up to women?...). Adam says the pro-trans side felt this looked like a moral panic, and that the frequency of men attacking women in women's spaces was being exaggerated. He says is what @jk_rowling

talks about so much worse than other things going on in the world? Helen asks if he wishes he'd waded in? Adam says he has nothing to say on this (WHAT A LIE!!!!) and that he can imagine what it's like to be a trans person in 2024. He thinks it must be exhausting and that he

talked to Contra Points who agreed. Adam admits he's not read the pro-women books @jk_rowling has read, he doesn't know all the details. He says he's a father and knows what it's like to worry about children, but doesn't feel he needed he to weigh in (HE HAS!). Helen says she

supports Contra Points and his views on the trials of JK Rowling series. Helen says women are open to attack in the same way transwomen are. Adam says no one is saying so what to that though. Helen disagrees and says it DID turn into a who gets it worse thing though. She thought

a moderate compromise was needed (e.g. single cubicles in toilets for privacy) and if people like her didn't speak up for this it would be left to extremists on both sides. Adam asks if she got pushback that made her feel she was wrong (seriously, fuck this guy). Helen says yes,

toilets. That single sex loos can't be policed and would lead to vigilante behaviour. She says it's an issue that gets raised too high in the mix. She says detransitioners can be wrong to tell people they're wrong, as many trans people are happy. Adam asks her if she watched

Contra Points video about the JK Rowling Witch trials. CP said Helen Lewis and other 'terfs' are the real handmaidens, the useful idiots who work for the patriarchy (Adam quotes this). Adam says a certain kind of woman is distracted by the patriarchy and attacks TW instead of

the 'real' violent men. Helen says the useful idiot thing is right and talks over moderate liberal feminist viewpoints, leading to draconian policy, like parents who trans their children being arrested. Helen then says she's not sure if CP isn't a useful idiot either because they

wear a lot of makeup and act feminine online. Helen objects to the idea it's simple that there's binary politics of left and right, that if a leftwing person says something you disagree with they're a stooge for the right. Adam wants to go back to CP wearing makeup, "isn't that a

a bitchy thing to say?" Helen says totally, but CP is a massive bitch too. Adam says it makes him uncomfortable. Helen says 'you want your guests to do better." No says Adam, I don't want people to stoop. He says he's obsessed with the tone of the conversation (stfu women!)

Helen says it makes her slightly uncomfortable, niceness tends to preserve the status quo. Adam says it's not niceness, it's a level of respect. Helen reminds Adam CP says terrible things and that if you dish it out you have to take it. Adam reluctantly says ok, then says when he

looks at @jk_rowling's tweets he thinks this isn't helping. He says most people he knows would sympathise with her views, but then when you dig into the things people say that she aligns with, it's not helpful. She knows the power that words have, so when she ridicules the

Scottish Hate Crime Bill by calling TW men who want to be women, it's not any skin off her nose to call them women. Adam calls this abuse and playground taunts. Helen says she sees his point and doesn't call TW men. She says she aligns with @ChimamandaReal that TWAW but they have

@ChimamandaReal a unique history that makes some of their interests different to biological females. Helen then says 'the reason that the terfs says TW are men is because they think that's how normal people understand what's going on. They're using plain language to make it clearer whilst us

@ChimamandaReal middle class people are playing language games." Helen says she saw @jk_rowling interacting with @damekatydenise_ which is a cruel parody of a TW. Helen says she burned a lot of political capital defending JKR so it's embarrassing when something like that happens. She says this

@ChimamandaReal @jk_rowling @damekatydenise_ is a dynamic that doesn't get talked about. You defend someone who then goes on to be barking mad, you look really stupid. She likens it to defending someone on death row who then goes on to commit murder. They then move on to chat about Ozempic. My thoughts: Helen got told

@ChimamandaReal @jk_rowling @damekatydenise_ off by a TRA and was partly apologetic and partly stood her ground over Contra Points and other issues. Adam has NO interest in talking about women's rights side, and admits he doesn't research it. He's still a grim beardy blokey who sees women as less than.